No Indonesian Culture

But at least bule mix kids grow up Multi lingual.
Yeah, I think in Indonesia I'd expect mixed kids to at least speak at least one European language (if only English, which even locals try to learn!) and (hopefully) Indonesian. In the US it's more likely that second or third generations just end up speaking English even without being mixed!

We have this comical situation at work where the person who speaks the most Mandarin is a white guy, while the Chinese-American barely remembers a few sentences -- from taking Mandarin in high school. Makes for an amusing experience at restaurants.

And if the inherited language is less practical (say, a European language spoken in only one country like Hungarian) or have less of a cultural heritage behind it -- the cost vs benefit tradeoff might lean even more in favor of it getting forgotten sooner rather than later.

But food, food gets passed on across generations! Or at least rediscovered, now that we don't really have the unbroken lineage of grandmas teaching mothers teaching daughters (not necessarily a bad thing, guys should cook too)
 
I see .. so far the weddings I attended had the dance shows. The only thing I enjoyed .. because I cannot speak bahasa indonesia .. i get bored.
I've seen a dance show at a couple of weddings - must be really well to do to afford one - and traditional Javanese musical performance at two other weddings, and I think an Indian wedding with dancing too (though not the full blown weeklong celebration). But the typical Chinese-Indonesian wedding just has a band, a cheesy MC, and no alcohol (as opposed to Chinese or Vietnamese weddings elsewhere in SE Asia which has copious amount of drinking!)

Who said the Islamic attitude towards alcohol doesn't affect other communities 😉 - high alcohol tax + the tradition of inviting hundreds or thousands of guests == no alcohol even for non Muslims
 
Make the difference between folklore, culture and civic education.

Transmit the essentials, repect for elders, family values (forget about the xxl extended family imo), respect or country of origin and country where he lives...
And give them plenty space for them to throw in their own style and modernity.

Cuisine, OK for some basics, keep them away from junk food.
 
There is such a thing as Indonesian culture, just like people recognize American culture. Yes, people in Java have a different attitude from those in Sumatera or Bali, just like people from Boston is different from those in LA or Houston, but there’s still a similar attitude across the nation that differentiates a typical American from a typical Indonesian. As a general rule, the bigger the scope, the shallower the traits.

Across Indonesia people emphasize politeness over friendliness by default. Indonesians think being familiar to a total stranger is kinda rude, while Americans think being cordial is a bit haughty or even hostile.

The idea of privacy is different. As I often say, there is no word for “privacy” in Indonesian, nor in most ethnic languages in Indonesia. The word “privasi” is a recent adoption, directly taken from English. It’s completely normal for people to ask questions deemed very personal for most Americans or Europeans. It’s not culturally out of line for a stranger to ask why you’re not married yet.

Most Indonesians more readily accept structural and societal hierarchy. There’s the upper class who holds most of the power and where most rules don’t apply, there’s the middle class that’s subject to all the rules and pays all the fees, then there’s the lower class who is too small to punish by most laws and mostly invisible from taxation. Most Americans are uncomfortable with this, and prefer to think everybody’s equal. The American in me cringes when I ask the domestic helper to make tea, while it comes naturally to the Indonesian in me.

For further reading, take a look at the big five personality traits, also known as the five-factor model across cultures.
 
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I'm American and recognize that America has no national culture. The US is an immigrant populated nation so the mix takes away from there being an actual culture. Indonesia is not a nation of immigrants except for an influx of Chinese who brought different cultures with them. It is a nation of tribes associated within a similar geographical area. Some Dutch practices may have stuck to some but that would be a minority.
 
I'm American and recognize that America has no national culture. The US is an immigrant populated nation so the mix takes away from there being an actual culture. Indonesia is not a nation of immigrants except for an influx of Chinese who brought different cultures with them. It is a nation of tribes associated within a similar geographical area. Some Dutch practices may have stuck to some but that would be a minority.
Perhaps you think of culture in the narrowest sense. If you think of culture only as specific norms, rules, traditions, symbols, and art, then it’s nearly impossible to nail down definitive traits. Large countries like China and Russia have dozens of ethnic groups with their own culture and traditions, even though they are not made of immigrant population.

In the business world the word ‘culture’ is applicable even with companies. It’s not as distinctive as ethnic culture, but distinctive enough to tell organizations apart.
 
I think there's a middle ground between these two positions - whether we call it culture or not, there are certainly some shared traits, and as Nimbus said the bigger the scope the shallower the traits.

There is such a thing as Indonesian culture, just like people recognize American culture. Yes, people in Java have a different attitude from those in Sumatera or Bali, just like people from Boston is different from those in LA or Houston, but there’s still similar attitudes across the nation that differentiates a typical American from a typical Indonesian. As a general rule, the bigger the scope, the shallower the traits.

Across Indonesia people emphasize politeness over friendliness by default. Indonesians think being familiar to a total stranger is kinda rude, while Americans think being cordial is a bit haughty or even hostile.

The idea of privacy is different. As I often say, there is no word for “privacy” in Indonesian, nor in most ethnic languages in Indonesia. The word “privasi” is a recent adoption, directly taken from English. It’s completely normal for people to ask questions deemed very personal for most Americans or Europeans. It’s not culturally out of line for a stranger to ask why you’re not married yet.

Most Indonesians more readily accept structural and societal hierarchy. There’s the upper class who holds most of the power and where most rules don’t apply, there’s the middle class that’s subject to all the rules and pays all the fees, then there’s the lower class who is too small to punish by most laws and mostly invisible from taxation. Most Americans are uncomfortable with this, and prefer to think everybody’s equal. The American in me cringes when I ask the domestic helper to make tea, while it comes naturally to the Indonesian in me.

For further reading, take a look at the big five personality traits, also known as the five-factor model across cultures.

The examples you cite are exactly the ones I don't want to pass on, haha! Part of the reason we don't really want to teach our kid Indonesian (apart from that practically, it won't stick anyway, while a second European language or, yes, Mandarin would be more useful for education or work) is so he won't hear nosy relatives and friends saying these things about him.

There are various American cultures too, of course, it's not really a homogenous one. I'm a big fan of the books Nine Nations of North America (out of print: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Nations_of_North_America?wprov=sfla1) and the more recent American Nations


Interestingly the latter posits that newcomers end up adopting the entrenched attitudes of the place they move to - so, for instance, my kid would grow up a Yankee 😉

I'm American and recognize that America has no national culture. The US is an immigrant populated nation so the mix takes away from there being an actual culture. Indonesia is not a nation of immigrants except for an influx of Chinese who brought different cultures with them. It is a nation of tribes associated within a similar geographical area. Some Dutch practices may have stuck to some but that would be a minority.
Not just Chinese - there are Indian and Arab minorities too. But yeah, as a Chinese-Indonesian myself, now that I no longer live in Indonesia I am noticing that apart from sometimes missing the cuisine, most of the things my relatives back in Indonesia would remind me to celebrate are culturally Chinese (Lunar New Year, Dragonboat festival, etc).
 
Not sure whether behaviour is a part of a nation's culture. I think so. E.g. in Europe, particularly in Holland, drinking alcohol is a big part of the behaviour of people at any celebration, while eating is in Indonesia. So, drinking culture versus eating culture. At a birthday party, do not think you will get food. No, first of all the party starts at 8.00 pm and there will be only drinks and some snacks like peanuts. Also in Holland after a business meeting e.g. there will be snacks (bitterballen and kaas) served with beer and wine. In the office building often there is a bar for all kinds of celebrations and is often the central meeting point, called something like "borrel hoek".
 
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Not sure whether behaviour is a part of a nation's culture. I think so. E.g. in Europe, particularly in Holland, drinking alcohol is a big part of the bahaviour of people at any celebration, while eating is in Indonesia. So, drinking culture versus eating culture.
I was chatting to someone who lives in the US Deep South and their description of living there reminded me of Indonesia!

Things are more laid back - bureaucracy less efficient than further north but issues can be resolved quicker if you know who to talk to - and they drink lots, lots of sweetened iced tea!

Slow paced life seems common to more tropical regions - I'm thinking of Hawaii too. Singapore might be an exception but it would not be possible without air conditioning.

Catfish reminds me a bit of lele too
 
In the business world the word ‘culture’ is applicable even with companies. It’s not as distinctive as ethnic culture, but distinctive enough to tell organizations apart.
Yes. I agree .. cultures are created by humans inside the companies. Especially the first owner(s) will establish the culture and will be copied by management and staff. Actually the owner will hire people who looks like him. This copy mechanism is the main factor for the culture of the company. Watch the videos about the styles of flight attendents. One can notice that also in small companies like fitness centers: Gold Gym versus Celebrity Fitness.
 
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Talking about behaviour. I noticed after a while that people here in Indonesia don't trust eachother .. big time .. and maybe I should post this in the thread "Wonders and curiocities" .. but what took me by suprise was when I transferred money .. they say "send proof". Huh, send proof? What do you mean? You have to confirm to me that you recieved my money.

Nobody trust anybody here. The government doesnot trust the rakyat. And the rakyat doesnot trust the government. That has a big influence on the behaviour of people here. It consumes time and causes a lot of miscommunication and thus errors because too many layers of control mechanisms. E.g. that's why one has to wait lamaaaaa .. at the cashier at the groceries, because of the double "administrasi" ...

And don't get me started on the many copies of my pasport or id card I already left behind at so many places here in Indonesia.
 
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So
Yes. I agree .. cultures are created by humans inside the companies. Especially the first owner(s) will establish the culture and will be copied by management and staff. Actually the owner will hire people who looks like him. This copy mechanism is the main factor for the culture of the company. Watch the videos about the styles of flight attendents. One can notice that also in small companies like fitness centers: Gold Gym versus Celebrity Fitness.
And that's also why some people worry when companies grow too fast: it is possible to get the culture swamped by newcomers.

Also applies to mergers, see McD hijacking Boeing's engineer driven culture
 
Talking about bahaviour. I noticed after a while that people here in Indonesia don't trust eachother .. big time .. and maybe I should post this in the thread "Wonders and curiocities" .. but what took me by suprise was when I transferred money .. they say "send proof". Huh, send proof? What do you mean? You have to confirm to me that you recieved my money.

Nobody trust anybody here. The government doesnot trust the rakyat. And the rakyat doesnot trust the government. That has a big influence on the behaviour of people here. It consumes time and causes a lot of miscommunication and thus errors because too many layers of control mechanisms. E.g. that's why one has to wait lamaaaaa .. at the cashier at the groceries, because of the double "administrasi" ...
I like to describe Indonesia as a low trust society.

Coming to live in the West it's interesting that the default is to trust. Makes things so much smoother.

eg being able to 'sign' paperwork online or using PDFs and printouts rather than having to have certified copies for a lot of things


Research has identified a correlation between linear-active cultures (i.e. following a daily schedule with a single task at a time)[4] with high-trust societies, and multi-active cultures (flexible schedules with many tasks at once, often in an unplanned order) with low-trust cultures

This, so much. Seems like every other person in Jakarta moonlights - sometimes unethically (schoolteachers giving private tuition to her own students)
 
I was chatting to someone who lives in the US Deep South and their description of living there reminded me of Indonesia!

Things are more laid back - bureaucracy less efficient than further north but issues can be resolved quicker if you know who to talk to - and they drink lots, lots of sweetened iced tea!

Slow paced life seems common to more tropical regions - I'm thinking of Hawaii too. Singapore might be an exception but it would not be possible without air conditioning.

Catfish reminds me a bit of lele too
Born and grew up in Georgia close to the Alabama line. I can comfirm this 100%. Rednecks and Indoneisians have a lot in common.
 
Talking about behaviour. I noticed after a while that people here in Indonesia don't trust eachother .. big time .. and maybe I should post this in the thread "Wonders and curiocities" .. but what took me by suprise was when I transferred money .. they say "send proof". Huh, send proof? What do you mean? You have to confirm to me that you recieved my money.

Nobody trust anybody here. The government doesnot trust the rakyat. And the rakyat doesnot trust the government. That has a big influence on the behaviour of people here. It consumes time and causes a lot of miscommunication and thus errors because too many layers of control mechanisms. E.g. that's why one has to wait lamaaaaa .. at the cashier at the groceries, because of the double "administrasi" ...

And don't get me started on the many copies of my pasport or id card I already left behind at so many places here in Indonesia.
Three decades of institutionalized corruption by Suharto taught Indonesians to suspect each other, and they haven’t recovered much from that.

Most Americans have little problem saying they don’t like you to your face; most Indonesians actively avoid being unpleasant upfront, but they’d backstab you easily. Of course this creates trust issues.

To make matters worse, most Indonesians are still living in survival mode, where every single day is a battle to stay alive. As they say, all’s fair in love and war.

When you add a culture of superfluous bureaucracy created by a European colonial administration and a military dictatorship, you often get a perfect shitstorm.
 
American "culture"....
Money, Mc Donalds, Coca Cola, Holywood, guns, pick up trucks with V8 engines, speaking loud, bi partisan political system pushed to the extreme, etc.....

Trump is the perfect representative....

Ok boys, I am joking. I loved Joh Wayne movies when I was a kid ! And untill a few years ago Jack Daniels / Coke was my favorite drink.
 
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There is a culture / sub culture or at least could be treated as such among the Indonesian Businessmen, Authorities, Bureaucrats that the money collected from public are treated similarly to their own money.

Just look at on this thread alone:

Similarly to the natural resources, minerals, precious metals, rare earth materials oils, forests are all treated as if it was an inheritance inherited from their ancestors, from their "engkong". Deforestation,, irresponsible exploitation of natural resources is one of the major cause for Indonesian wood products, palm oil and other products from nature to get banned in developed world. Just search what is one the major cause of deforestation, forest fire in the Indonesian tropical forests. Also do search about "lumpur lapindo" the mudflow that has displaced thousands of people and caused billions of dollars in damage, who contribute to this natural and man-made disasters ?.

Another culture you often find as part of Asian traditions, if you invite someone for a meeting, even it is not a business meeting, you are generally obliged to provide meals. Otherwise you will be seen as stingy, rude.
 
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There is a culture / sub culture or at least could treated as such among the Indonesian Businessmen, Authorities, Bureaucrats that the money collected from public are treated similarly to their own money.

Just look at on this thread alone:

Similarly to the natural resources, minerals, precious metals, rare earth materials oils, forests are all treated like an inheritance inherited from their ancestors, from their "engkong". Defenestration, irresponsible exploitation of natural resources is one of the major cause for Indonesian wood products, palm oil annd other prudct from nature to get banned in developed world. Just search what is one the major cause of deforestation, forest fire in the Indonesian tropical forests. Also do search about "lumpur Bapindo" the mudflow that has displaced thousands of people and caused billions of dollars in damage, who contribute to this natural and man-made disasters ?.

Another culture you often find as part of Asian traditions, if you invite someone for a meeting, even it is not a business meeting, you are generally obliged to provide meals. Otherwise you will seen as stingy, rude.
It's more than sad ..
 
This actually means something else, though it's also interesting


It's throwing someone out of the window (as part of a revolution or lynching)
Also in the daylighting analysis to save energy there is the so called "fenestration". I believe Fenestration and De-fenestration come from the German Word "das Fenster".
 
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