No Indonesian Culture

Light skin fascination far predates western colonialism. It has thousands of years of documented history. Just look at the history of the umbrella. For thousands of years in all of Asia it was used to shield people from the sun and from developing darker skin. Lighter skin tone in Indonesia was more of a slow intermixing of peoples from east Asian into southeast Asia. Have you ever wondered why the skin tone of Indonesia darkens as you get further away from China? Despite having the same latitude and less solar radiation in Papua, Papuans are far darker than Javanese.

I don't know how many of the cultures of Indonesia share the value of mob/group justice, but I have seen it to some extent across many groups. Everyone in a community shaming or beating someone that deviates from the culture norms seems traditional to many of the cultures. It contrasts with my own.

There is always cultural cross over and influence in all cultures. Cultures are not static and always evolving. One of the key ways I define cultures is through food. Preparation, flavors, and presentation are all cultural values.

Once BPS had a website for the retail prices of the 20 or so most used food products in every province of Indonesia. Where these ingredients exclusive to Indonesia? No. But the combination of them as the basis of a cuisine was likely uniquely Indonesia.

One thing I have observed is the way food is traditionally prepared for Indonesia. It is an equatorial country. Its regions generally have consistent temperature all year and the majority of them are hot. Most food can be grown on a continuous basis. Food reserves generally only had to last until the next harvest cycle and not a full year. Many fruits and plants continuously produce. The sea can produce fish all year. Most of the food preparation is centered around preserving cooked food from the tropical weather and less about preserving the majority of your calories for a full year. This is usually done by cooking most of the moisture out of the food. Another common way of keeping food safe to eat is by having it in a soup that can continuously be reheated. Dry meat and soup seem to be universal across most of Indonesia.

Can anyone think of any foods that are universal across most or all of Indonesia?
 
Interesting articles. I thought the fascination for European products, style and white skin was an effect of Dutch colonialism.
More likely American movies and Korean drama.
In Korea it was already fashionable when I worked there in 85/87.
My Korean g/f had her eyes done, than her nose. Good she had a fair skin, so I avoided the messing with all them dubious products.
The fair skin thing comes from not wanting to look like a laborer. It's common to different cultures.
Correct. Same over all Asia and in some Latam countries.
 
Once BPS had a website for the retail prices of the 20 or so most used food products in every province of Indonesia. Where these ingredients exclusive to Indonesia? No. But the combination of them as the basis of a cuisine was likely uniquely Indonesia.
So, the cuisine would be a cultural characteristic of Indonesia?
 
Lighter skin tone in Indonesia was more of a slow intermixing of peoples from east Asian into southeast Asia. Have you ever wondered why the skin tone of Indonesia darkens as you get further away from China? Despite having the same latitude and less solar radiation in Papua, Papuans are far darker than Javanese.
I understand what you are saying, but not sure what the point is (in reference to fascination for white skin)?
 
I understand what you are saying, but not sure what the point is (in reference to fascination for white skin)?

I always assumed that it was a desire to NOT look like a labourer who was forced to work outside.

...or perhaps it was an emulation of royalty/ruling classes (which is similar to the first).

Istri ku and her friends are more concerned with flat noses vs. long noses than with skin colour if my eavesdropping has taught me anything! 👃:noidea:
 
I always assumed that it was a desire to NOT look like a labourer who was forced to work outside.

...or perhaps it was an emulation of royalty/ruling classes (which is similar to the first).

Istri ku and her friends are more concerned with flat noses vs. long noses than with skin colour if my eavesdropping has taught me anything! 👃:noidea:
Hmm, pesek vs manjung. Indonesians prefer "manjung". Would that be an effect of 350 year Dutch colonization?
 
no(i)se complaints are pretty common
😜 It is just the Bule sharp nose beauty fascination. See also Michael Jackson and Megan Markle of course. Same with chin btw, many selebriti have that ‘fixed’ too.

In Korea it was already fashionable when I worked there in 85/87.
In 85/87 BC? If you would have read the article I posted, you would have seen that in Korea since thousands of years….

So, the cuisine would be a cultural characteristic of Indonesia?
Nah, it’s just a mix with Chinese, Indian and Arab influences. And a bit of Portuguese and Dutch. In (Indonesian!) studies they came to the conclusion that perhaps only three dishes are ‘original’. A sate and nasi goreng exist everywhere in some form or shape in (South) East Asia. And see for instance Padang food. Or Gado-gado. That’s a Chinese Betawi interpretation…

I always assumed that it was a desire to NOT look like a labourer who was forced to work outside.
Yep, white is rich, dark is poor. There are even (rather racist/bigot) words between the Chinese Indonesians for those with darker skin and who are often poor (from Tangerang or so): Hitaci. of course the first part of the acronym means hitam.

Again, even if it already existed in the wild, it was cultivated under Indian and Chinese influences (pre Islam). And it was aristocratic food, rather upscale. It only became a staple food under the Dutch who also improved the sub-par production. Similar for sweet potatoes in Papua btw, but by the Portuguese.
 
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Obviously even batik is not really ‘Indonesian’. Although they claim it to be.
 
But ... in this thread .. the OP was asking for typical Indonesia culture .. in my opinion doesn't necesarry has be 'original', right? Or exclusive? But then .. I am not an antropologist..
 
Rice being consumed at the levels it is today is a fairly current thing. It developed in the past 25 or so years. Before rice everywhere there were other types of starches consumed regularly like casava and yams. Rice was just brought into heavy use because it was a cheap filler.
 
Obviously even batik is not really ‘Indonesian’. Although they claim it to be.
Nor is the Kabya which is considered belonging to Indonesian when it was actually something brought in by the Dutch so that the royal ladies and their female escorts would cover their bare breast at official functions. Leave it to the Dutch to make those kabyas see through lace. Well, they were covered.
 
Nor is the Kabya which is considered belonging to Indonesian when it was actually something brought in by the Dutch so that the royal ladies and their female escorts would cover their bare breast at official functions. Leave it to the Dutch to make those kabyas see through lace. Well, they were covered.
Really? Interesting to know.
 
I know what you mean. But very often you get to a result by defining first what something is NOT.

I‘m somewhat afraid that on a certain moment we will get to less attractive traits of the population. It’s a kind of balancing act.
Good point. In this thread I deviated by asking the effects of Dutch colonialism on modern Indonesia society, because in The Netherlands a research was done on the effects of Dutch colonialism on the modern Dutch society (racism and bias that white people are superior). But there is yet no research on the effects in the colonies itself.
 
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Cultures evolve over time. That evolution does not pertain to a nation in whole. Cultures change in pockets. One area may change over time while the area they border with go in a diffetent direction with border areas incorporating some things from both areas. Indonesia has seen a vast differences of religions over it's history. Each of which brings traditions that have been built through time. While religions changed many earlier traditions remained. Those areas where they were forced under threat of death to change religions kept many of their traditions they had in place.

I am not pointing a finger at Buddhist, Hindus, or Islam for any wrong doing. The Catholics did the same in the Philippines and some Pacific Islands.
 
Good point. In this thread I deviated by asking the effects of Dutch colonialism on modern Indonesia society, because in The Netherlands a research was done on the effects of Dutch colonialism on the modern Dutch society (racism and bias that white people are superior). But there us no research on the effects in the colonies itself.
The thing is, that a huge amount of the population who were possibly in that (superior) position, moved after the war and independence to the Netherlands. These were the Totoks (white people who lived in pre Indonesia for centuries) and the Indo’s (mixed, very often as a result from affairs between a Dutch civil servant or business man and local Njai / concubine). Besides Moluccans (KNIL) and Chinese of course. So there’s not so much left (besides the huge Dutch vocabulary) that reminds them of that period.

If I’m in a taxi and the driver asks me where I’m from, there really is no negative reaction at all on a certain nationality which was the former colonizer. They really don’t care if you’re American, Dutch, German or Australian. And I never got any negative “the VOC and Dutch killed our country” reaction. On the contrary perhaps; many love to talk about Van Persie, Simon Tahamata, Radja Naingolan, etc. and are rather proud of their ‘Indonesian’ background.

It sounds absurd but you learn a lot from a country and improve your language skills by watching the gossip tv. And esp. in this case also the selebriti and sinetron programs. I picked up a lot by watching stupid shows as Insert, Rumpi no secret and BHSI. And after that watch the talkshows as Kick Andy, Deddy Corbuzier and even Hotman Paris. It struck me that in the soaps the main actors were always mixed. And there are almost no celebrities who have not undergone huge renovations. And throw in as much English words in your daily conversation as possible (“you know”). Appearance is important, esp. here. And white(r) people are often still on a pedestal.
 
Thinking about cultures and hearing people reference Indonesian culture I ask, what is Indonesian culture. To me, there is none for the identifyer of, Indonesian. Indonesia has many cultures be they Javanese, Sundanese, Balinese, Batak, etc, etc. Even some of these groups differ in their cultural practices. The Karo Batak have different cultual practices than the Toba Batak. Balinese living on Bali have diffenced with many Balinese living outside there.
There are some cultures of Islamist that have brought Hindu and or Budist cultural practices. Some are large groups, some just families.
I just don't feel that anyone can say Indonesian Culture when speaking of Indonesian.
I think one must understand Indonesia as something imagined (I can't help without resorting to uncle Ben Anderson's idea of nationalism). It's the same with the whole idea of nation be it Austria, Australia or America. So when someone mentions Indonesian culture then it comprises all the cultural practices from many communities that are actively embracing the idea of Indonesia as something they share together.
 
I think one must understand Indonesia as something imagined (I can't help without resorting to uncle Ben Anderson's idea of nationalism). It's the same with the whole idea of nation be it Austria, Australia or America. So when someone mentions Indonesian culture then it comprises all the cultural practices from many communities that are actively embracing the idea of Indonesia as something they share together.
Wow, well said 👍
 
So there’s not so much left (besides the huge Dutch vocabulary) that reminds them of that period.
I read in the newpaper Kompas. Jokowi saying "mental inlander masih ada". Would that be an effect of 350 years colonialism?
 

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