The Uyghur and China discussion thread

Pak Asam Manis

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10 years ago was a long time ago, especially for fast-changing China. A lot have changed since then, including the dramatic improvements in the life of the Uyghurs.
Now you've really disappeared down the rabbithole ... and I suppose you have been there more recently (to Xinjiang, not just to PRC) than I and have seen these "dramatic improvements" with your own eyes?

I agree things there have changed in the last ten years ... only not for the better, if you are a member of the minority ethnic groups, especially the Muslim ones. The fact is, they are much, much worse, but as I said, go ahead and drink the Kool-Aid if it tastes good to ya.
 

HappyMan

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10 years ago was a long time ago, especially for fast-changing China. A lot have changed since then, including the dramatic improvements in the life of the Uyghurs.
Yes, they have probably done surveys to ask the Uyghurs if they are happy. I imagine they look something like this:

Excellent And Not Biased Survey of the Urgyur People

Please choose one, correct, answer.

° I am very happy with my life as a citizen of The Wonderful People's Republic Of China (sing anthem here) and feel that my stay in this Excellent Educational Facility has greatly improved the quality of my life. Hail To The CCP!

° I am unhappy as a citizen and wish to continue my stay in this internment camp while you harass and threaten my friends and family. I am aware that this answer may result in my permanent disappearance.
 

HappyMan

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A few of the foreign vloggers cited in this thread have been listed as stringers on the CGTN (state controlled media) website. They are also being used in promotional materials for paid partnerships with CGTN. Videos posted to the CGTN website show that they are being accompanied by CGTN crews on their vlogging trips.
Basically, if you were wondering why independent, amateur, "journalists" were spouting Chinese government propaganda, you can stop wondering. I know this isn't surprising news or anything, and there are no signed confessions, but I thought it was worth adding to a thread where these people are repeatedly cited.

 

harryopal

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Midday news showing Xi Jinping and Kim Jong Un declaring their mutual happiness and affection and stronger ties. Or as Kim says, ".... the comradely trust and militant friendship between the DPRK and China get stronger day by day,"

What an unholy alliance. At least the CCP can claim improved standards of material benefit for it's peoples but North Korea seems to be getting much worse..
 

Dave70

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A few of the foreign vloggers cited in this thread have been listed as stringers on the CGTN (state controlled media) website. They are also being used in promotional materials for paid partnerships with CGTN. Videos posted to the CGTN website show that they are being accompanied by CGTN crews on their vlogging trips.
Basically, if you were wondering why independent, amateur, "journalists" were spouting Chinese government propaganda, you can stop wondering. I know this isn't surprising news or anything, and there are no signed confessions, but I thought it was worth adding to a thread where these people are repeatedly cited.


I’m disappointed only 4 vloggers (Lee & Oli Barrett, Jason Lightfoot, Raz Gal-Or, and Barrie Jones) were mentioned in the article, I thought there will be more names in the list which would include Afu Thomas (Germany), Nathan Rich (USA), Daniel Dumbrill (Canada), Kirk Apesland (Canada), Matthew Galat (USA), Alex Absolute (UK), Cyrus Janssen (USA), Jerry Grey (Australia), Fernando Munoz (Columbia), Alex Reporterfy (Canada), among others.

Regarding the article, the British state media attacks Chinese state media again…




Just a couple of months ago, BBC bias was exposed Live On Air by Dr. Jeffrey Sachs

 

HappyMan

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Regarding the article, the British state media attacks Chinese state media again…

The British government has no editorial control over the BBC. This is a false equivalency.
 

ChrisTex

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So Dave, have you heard that UK and Europe are suggesting boycotting the 2022 Winters games in China?
 

HappyMan

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Just a couple of months ago, BBC bias was exposed Live On Air by Dr. Jeffrey Sachs

What Dr. Jeffery Sachs had to say was very much on point, regarding problems in America. It is no wonderland. As regards the BBC's proposed bias however, I believe the program's central premise was "shouldn't we be ostracizing the leader of a government that is currently committing human rights abuses?" Dr. Sachs clearly thinks not, when the central topic is climate change. He seemed to be genuinely annoyed at the mixing of the two topics, which is fair enough if you are The sort to think that many millions of lives lost to climate change are more important than the human rights of a single minority group.

The BBC does have a history of calling out the American and British government's leaders, by the way.

The whataboutism style approach to Dr. Sachs' statements was an unfortunate mistake though, much as it has been in our discussion here. (Again, I think it stems from his desire to actually discuss climate change.) If you wanted to start a thread about what America is doing wrong in the world, I'd probably show up to add my condemnation of our past foreign policies. However, saying that, "they did bad stuff too", when accused of wrongdoing is a bad defense on many levels. At best it is childish.

I didn't really watch Walker's commentary.
 

ChrisTex

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Sorry, don't know, don't care.

Well one o the reasons was because of this thread, the Uyghurs and their treatment. Okay not this specific thread, but what has been discussed in it.
 

Balifrog

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The British government has no editorial control over the BBC. This is a false equivalency.
Are you sure ?

 

HappyMan

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Are you sure ?
Yes. Are you serious? I have really had a hard time understanding where you are coming from in this thread. It feels like you have started with the conclusion that China is as good or better than western countries as regards... everything, and are wandering around trying to find sources to prove it. That is a pointless discussion, as far as I am concerned (because it is endlessly broad and subjective). Either they are doing horrible things to the Uyghur or they aren't. Either they are trying to manipulate their image through the use of disingenuous voices or they aren't.

It is just so bizarre reading this thread. I feel like we both just watched a moving car crash into a parked one and you are trying everything you can to convince me that the moving car was not at fault. You want to talk about how other cars crashed and weren't held to account and discuss the visibility of the parked car's color, talk about the driver's dirty windshield and how maybe crashing was the best he could do... I'm just... If you at least owned one of the cars it would make sense. What is your interest in trying to disprove the obvious? This is bizarre.
 
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Balifrog

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Yes. Are you serious? I have really had a hard time understanding where you are coming from in this thread. It feels like you have started with the conclusion that China is as good or better than western countries as regards... everything, and are wandering around trying to find sources to prove it. That is a pointless discussion, as far as I am concerned (because it is endlessly broad and subjective). Either they are doing horrible things to the Uyghur or they aren't. Either they are trying to manipulate their image through the use of disingenuous voices or they aren't.

It is just so bizarre reading this thread. I feel like we both just watched a moving car crash into a parked one and you are trying everything you can to convince me that the moving car was not at fault. You want to talk about how other cars crashed and weren't held to account and discuss the visibility of the parked car's color, talk about the driver's dirty windshield and how maybe crashing was the best he could do... I'm just... If you at least owned one of the cars it would make sense. What is your interest in trying to disprove the obvious? This is bizarre.
Wow, wow, CALM DOWN !

My reply is on the single phrase about UK government having no control on the BBC editorials.
My link, if you bothered to read it, mentions the complete opposite.

WTH you go mad on your white horse ? I didn' even mention China .....🙄🙄🙄🙄
 

Balifrog

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Besides that, China rules their country as they want, even I dont agree with some of their actions but it is none of our business.

Why NOT ANY muslim nation raises the subject with China ? That is the question to ask....
And concerrning "western nation" high moral standard, how many innocent civilians the USA has slaugthered in Irak, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya .....?
I didn't see the western press organising a campaign about it ?
 

HappyMan

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Wow, wow, CALM DOWN !

My reply is on the single phrase about UK government having no control on the BBC editorials.
My link, if you bothered to read it, mentions the complete opposite.

WTH you go mad on your white horse ? I didn' even mention China .....🙄🙄🙄🙄
Eh... My bad. I thought it was dave... Oops
 

HappyMan

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Are you sure ?

So, the reason that I didn't read that article before (have since read most of it, interesting), is because I am aware of this, "The Chairman and the non-executive members for the nations are appointed by HM The Queen on the recommendation of Ministers while the other members of the Board are appointed by the BBC through the Board's Nominations Committee." Boris and friends are not working hand in hand with the BBC to determine which news and opinions will be presented. They are not jailing reporters or vloggers who present evidence contrary to their narrative (unless I missed something... but then this is the China thread, so I'll save my research time). The BBC is not state controlled media as that term is generally understood. CGTN is.

There is loads of evidence for China's misdeeds against the Uyghur. You can pick another (reputable) source if you like.
 

Balifrog

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So, the reason that I didn't read that article before (have since read most of it, interesting), is because I am aware of this, "The Chairman and the non-executive members for the nations are appointed by HM The Queen on the recommendation of Ministers while the other members of the Board are appointed by the BBC through the Board's Nominations Committee." Boris and friends are not working hand in hand with the BBC to determine which news and opinions will be presented. They are not jailing reporters or vloggers who present evidence contrary to their narrative (unless I missed something... but then this is the China thread, so I'll save my research time). The BBC is not state controlled media as that term is generally understood. CGTN is.

There is loads of evidence for China's misdeeds against the Uyghur. You can pick another (reputable) source if you like.
I give up, again you did not understand my reply and you're completely off topic...
 

HappyMan

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I give up, again you did not understand my reply and you're completely off topic...
Your reply was the question, "Are you sure?", and a video link. Perhaps you would like to clarify the argument posed by your question?
 

R Cameron

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Why NOT ANY muslim nation raises the subject with China ? That is the question to ask....

Do you know what demographic is the vast majority of the victims of Islamic terrorism? Muslims. That's just one example that "Muslims" is not a homogenous global entity, and not every Muslim nation and Muslim ethnic group is rushing to help other Muslim nations and ethnic groups. Palestine is the only example I can think of with broad and active support from many Muslim nations, and there are many obvious reasons Palestine is unique.

In addition, China has been building huge amounts of infrastructure in many Muslim majority nations, leaving them greatly indebted to China. From the Wikipedia page on the topic: "China has already invested billions of dollars in several South Asian countries like Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Afghanistan to improve their basic infrastructure, with implications for China's trade regime as well as its military influence."

Diplomatic relations with the world's #2 super power and #1 producer of consumer goods is understandably complex. Even the USA plays along, avoiding at all costs calling Taiwan a country despite the clear reality of the American diplomatic position.

Given all the above, I am not surprised that few Muslim world leaders are giving public outrage to China's well documented treatment of the Uighers. However many Muslims the world over, who may not have the same complex personal and political considerations, are indeed outraged.
 

Dave70

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Given all the above, I am not surprised that few Muslim world leaders are giving public outrage to China's well documented treatment of the Uighers. However many Muslims the world over, who may not have the same complex personal and political considerations, are indeed outraged.

"Well documented" made by who??? Perhaps by supporters of the Anti-China forces like the Falun Gong, the Tibetan independence movement, the East Turkestan independence movement, and the Five Eyes countries with the exception of New Zealand https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021...it-will-set-china-policy-not-us-led-five-eyes
 

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