The Uyghur and China discussion thread

[Dave70]

HappyMan’s remark “you need to go back to the Uyghur thread and start writing” on another thread > https://www.expatindo.org/community...w-on-viruses-and-lab-research.6295/post-80721 kind of reminds me that I have unfinished business here.

Since the BBC published their hit-piece on July 11, 2021 (see link posted by HappyMan #243), there are numerous reactions from subjects mentioned in the article as well as from veteran journalist Nury Vittachi (excerpt below).

BBC attack on expats backfires

IN A HILARIOUS BOTCH-UP, the BBC yesterday inserted numerous links to anti-China features into an article defending itself from claims that it was anti-China.

Here’s what happened.

BBC journalists wrote an article attacking China-based “citizen journalists”. The bloggers defended themselves by saying the BBC and other Western media had a clearly biased, negative attitude to the Asian developing nation.

The BBC’s editors yesterday printed the article (above) — but sprinkled it with links (see picture below) which powerfully proved the critics’ point that the BBC is biased against China.

In effect, the BBC said “we’re not anti-China — by the way, here’s a link to an article showing how China is a dystopian hellscape! And another one. And another one. And another one. And . . “.

It’s hard not to laugh.

It gets better. In fact, yesterday’s BBC article should go down in history as a textbook example of self-defeating journalism for at least four reasons.

First, you cannot argue against the allegation that you present a strongly one-sided view by including a list of article links that prove conclusively that you present a one-sided view.

SENSE OF IRONY

Second, the article attacks ordinary individual bloggers in China (like those in the picture above) by implying, with no hard evidence, that they receive government cash to do what they do, which is to show China in a positive light.

Yet we all know for a fact that the BBC journalists making the accusation receive government cash month after month to do what they do, which is to present China in a negative light.

(The BBC’s annual budget is GBP3.5 billion.)

Staff in the BBC newsroom appear to have had their senses of irony surgically removed.

THEY PAY STRINGERS

Third, the BBC report reveals, shock horror, that CGTN, a government-financed news outlet, now offers CASH PAYMENTS to STRINGERS!

OMG!

The BBC writers mysteriously forgot to mention that the BBC, also a government-financed news outlet, also offers cash payments to stringers (much larger sums). They’ve been doing this for decades.

I know this for a fact because I was a stringer for the BBC for years.

At this point, I became seriously worried about the toddler-level lack of self-awareness in the BBC newsroom.

MOTIVATION MYSTERY

Fourth, the BBC writers say: “It’s unclear what drives the foreign vloggers – whether they believe in China’s messaging or are motivated by the lure of local fame and fortune instead.”

It’s only unclear what motivates them if you haven’t watched a single one of their videos. If you do, you can see they are ordinary people doing their best to provide desperately needed balance to the reports put out by dedicated Sinophobes like, well, BBC Newsroom staff, to pick a random example out of thin air.

LET’S TALK ABOUT MONEY

Actually, let’s talk about money, something BBC journalists HATE to discuss.

The BBC’s hatchet job presents no evidence whatsoever that the Barretts, Barrie Jones, or Jason Lightfoot are paid a single yuan for having the opinions they have, or for choosing to show the positive side of life in China.

In contrast, BBC journalists have very good salaries for showing the negative side of life in China. I hope the bloggers attacked by BBC journalists Kerrie Allen and Sophie Williams realize they have the moral right to ask them how much the BBC pays them.

OVERPAID JOURNALISTS

I’ve worked at the BBC on and off for decades and I can tell you that some BBC journalists get paid A LOT. When BBC newsroom head James Harding left in 2018, his salary was GBP340,000 a year. Election specialist Jeremy Vine gets more than GBP600,000 a year.

Of course most people in the newsrooms get less than that, but at least 40 BBC journalists are paid more than the British Prime Minister’s GBP150,000 salary, a Press Gazette study showed in 2017. Political editor Laura Kuenssberg gets GBP200,000 to GBP250,000 a year, for example.

For the rest of the article (more on Factual Inaccuracies, The 50-Cent Army, and the Need for Integrity) > https://www.fridayeveryday.com/2021/07/11/bbc-attack-on-expats-backfires/

 

[harryopal1]

Dave70

Having worked for the BBC, ABC, NZBC, US public radio and contributed to a number of newspapers spread over a period of some 30 years I find the way in which you seize upon anything and everything to argue about world wide conspiracies against China quite preposterous. So journalists are paid salaries and have written what you regard as negative stories which I take to mean stories not running the CCP line or lavishing praise upon China. So what? Would the stories have merit if written by unpaid amateurs? And stringers are paid for their stories. Again so what? And media stars can earn massive salaries. Again so what? Your argument implies that these salaries are used to shape anti China reporting. Absolute nonsense.

The overall thrust of your argument manages to ignore the reality that most of these various institutions are often savaged by their home governments for running stories critical of the various western governments. It is the nature of assembling information and running to meet deadlines that inevitably result in mistakes and fallacies which become part of the narrative. But often when there have been such mistakes they are invariably followed with an apology and correction. Unless of course you were preparing material for Communist run media. Most journalists in Communist countries would not dare to write anything critical or other than the "correct line" as to do so would be at their peril. How often does CCP controlled media publish apologies or correct mistakes? Well, I guess never because the propagandist media of Communist countries do not make mistakes.

It is also the nature of western media to be critical, negative and suspicious of governments. Having a vigorous and relatively free press makes for instruments that keep governments on their toes and accountable.

In the 60s as I began working for Radio Australia I was told that stories about immigration and Aborigines were not wanted. But otherwise that was the sole example of government interference. Working in current affairs in the 70s as China began to open up I was often asked to cover breaking stories to do with China but was never directed how to approach a story. Not that I did not get into hot water from time to time over other political and social stories as it is the nature of democratic societies that there will be different views as to how issues should be reported. But it is absolute nonsense to imply there were deeply ingrained conspiracies afoot to damage China.

Does this mean I think all Western media is beyond reproach? Of course not. We are all aware of the Murdoch empire and Murdoch's determination to view the world through right wing coloured glasses. And we are all aware how often commercial interests will pressure media outlets to avoid critical issues seen as damaging to their public relations and profit driven causes.

I have no idea what percentage of consumers of western media have a sophisticated critical view when looking at the various information sources but a variety of surveys suggest that few people completely trust and accept what western media offers. On the other hand at least we are not hammered into accepting as "truth" whatever propaganda is dished out by the CCP and Communist controlled media in other countries.

I have not written this post thinking that it will change or modify your relentless defence of anything to do with the CCP. I just hope my remarks may be of interest to help other forum members recognize the tiresome drivel which is a feature of your unwavering critique of western media.

 

[HappyMan]

@Dave70

If you recall, I spoke in the other thread of your willingness to believe that the American government's imposition of secrecy, their lack of transparency regarding a military base, was evidence of wrongdoing. I referenced this thread because the Chinese government is well know for it's lack of transparency. If you believe that the imposition of secrecy is evidence of wrongdoing, then you must believe that the Chinese government is doing great wrongs in many areas, and to the Uyghur people specifically, as they continue to suppress the free press in general and access to the Uyghur people specifically.

Evidence of this suppression abounds, and some of it has been listed here previously.

As regards the funding of the BBC, they are largely funded by tv licenses. This information is readily available... Shame on you.

As regards your insinuation that the content of the BBC is mandated in the same way that the CCP mandates Chinese media, this is patently false, as has been explained to you. Shame on you.

As regards your insistence that reporting the facts of life in China is somehow anti-China. I know that you are not an idiot... Shame on you.

I just can't believe that you can look at the Western world with such skepticism and blindly accept the dogma of the CCP. You must be either acting from a place of personal interest or just one of irrational hatred. Either way you are intelligent enough to know that you are biased. I can accept someone being wrong because they do not understand the topic, but someone who insists on the wrong thing, knowing it is wrong... that is just shameful.

 

[Dave70]

Having worked for the BBC, ABC, NZBC, US public radio and contributed to a number of newspapers spread over a period of some 30 years I find the way in which you seize upon anything and everything to argue about world wide conspiracies against China quite preposterous. So journalists are paid salaries and have written what you regard as negative stories which I take to mean stories not running the CCP line or lavishing praise upon China. So what? Would the stories have merit if written by unpaid amateurs? And stringers are paid for their stories. Again so what? And media stars can earn massive salaries. Again so what? Your argument implies that these salaries are used to shape anti China reporting. Absolute nonsense.

Let's be a little more accurate... not world wide conspiracies, just the Five Eyes Countries (minus NZ recently).

Please stop exaggerating, you know it's nothing about "stories not running the CCP line or lavishing praise upon China".

Not my argument, it's Nury Vittachi's article. He's saying exactly what you're saying "SO WHAT". So what if China is paying stringers? Problem is, is it true that the vloggers are paid? If not then the BBC is smearing them.

I have not written this post thinking that it will change or modify your relentless defence of anything to do with the CCP. I just hope my remarks may be of interest to help other forum members recognize the tiresome drivel which is a feature of your unwavering critique of western media.

Let's be clear, I read western media, I rely on them for news, except news about China.

By the way, since you're an ex-journalist, I assume you are familiar with "presstitutes"?

 

[Dave70]

If you recall, I spoke in the other thread of your willingness to believe that the American government's imposition of secrecy, their lack of transparency regarding a military base, was evidence of wrongdoing.

To be precise, US Army biodefense laboratory, not military base.

Evidence of this suppression abounds, and some of it has been listed here previously.

Evidence on the contrary is also listed here in this thread.

As regards the funding of the BBC, they are largely funded by tv licenses. This information is readily available... Shame on you.

Not entirely true, you can google “bbc funding” and this is the first result you get “The BBC receives most of its income from licence fee receipts. The other main source of income is a central government grant received from DWP, which currently compensates the BBC for providing free TV licences for over-75 households”.

As regards your insinuation that the content of the BBC is mandated in the same way that the CCP mandates Chinese media, this is patently false, as has been explained to you. Shame on you.

I never said that, but you can find evidence of fake news produced by the BBC (and other Western media) somewhere in this thread.

As regards your insistence that reporting the facts of life in China is somehow anti-China. I know that you are not an idiot... Shame on you.

Problem is, facts are not always reported by some Western media. Sometimes they exaggerate, lie, and spread disinformation about China.

I just can't believe that you can look at the Western world with such skepticism and blindly accept the dogma of the CCP. You must be either acting from a place of personal interest or just one of irrational hatred. Either way you are intelligent enough to know that you are biased. I can accept someone being wrong because they do not understand the topic, but someone who insists on the wrong thing, knowing it is wrong... that is just shameful.

I'm only skeptical of their reporting about China. I don't blindly accept the CCP dogma, I'm only speaking from experience. What personal interest is there for me to post comments in this forum? Nobody knows me, and I mean nobody on this planet. Hatred? No, it's not good for my health. Maybe I'm biased, you're not? I'm not a journalists, so I don't have to pretend that I'm unbiased. Being biased is human nature, if you can claim that you are never biased, then you must be a saint. Last but not least, are you talking about yourself when you said "someone who insists on the wrong thing, knowing it is wrong... that is just shameful"? You need to look at yourself in the mirror, as quoted in the Bible "You hypocrite! First, remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye".

 

[jstar]

Dave, it is important to understand the difference between criticizing a loathsome regime and being "China haters." Yes, it is evident that many of the forum critics believe the CPC government is appalling for the various reasons covered so far. But it does not follow we are therefore China haters. That implies xenophobic and racist attitudes simply because we cannot share your fixated views on supporting policies of the CPC government.

I have shared houses with Chinese friends in Melbourne, Australia over several years and lived in Singapore in a Chinese neighbourhood. I am somewhat offended to be lumped under the term "China haters."

Chinese consulate in Sydney issues safety alert following racist street assaults, firmly opposes anti-Chinese violence - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

The Chinese Consulate-General in Sydney on Friday issued two safety advisories for Chinese residents and students, urging them to exercise caution following recent reports of street assaults in Eastgardens, Sydney.

According to media reports, recent street attacks in Eastgardens have posed threats to residents' safety. The Chinese Consulate-General in Sydney reminds all Chinese residents and students in the consular district to closely follow local news and current affairs and stay vigilant about local security conditions. It also reminds them to strengthen personal safety awareness, enhance self-protection capabilities and minimize nighttime travel when possible.


Btw, my wife studied amongst other places in Australia and she had quite some ‘not so positive’ experiences. And that’s decades ago.

 

[harryopal1]

I am afraid racism and hostility towards different groups is endemic in the animal, including the human species. Whether it is baboons, chimps, birds or humans there is a territorial imperative that we react to intrusion by interlopers. In predominately white countries, colour or an Asian appearance immediately puts people at risk. The awful irony is that in Australia we white people are the interlopers in a country where the idigenous people have lived for 60,000 years.

Another irony is often when immigrants become settled they are also discombobulated by the arrival of a host of new immigrants.

In a civilized society we ought be aware of prejudice and allow everyone to be treated with respect. While Australia has moved way from the racist White Australia policy there has always been a residual element of racism which tends to become more overt during difficult economic times and encouraged by the likes of Pauline Hanson and white supremacist groups.

 

[Shadrach]

I am afraid racism and hostility towards different groups is endemic in the animal, including the human species. Whether it is baboons, chimps, birds or humans there is a territorial imperative that we react to intrusion by interlopers. In predominately white countries, colour or an Asian appearance immediately puts people at risk. The awful irony is that in Australia we white people are the interlopers in a country where the idigenous people have lived for 60,000 years.

Another irony is often when immigrants become settled they are also discombobulated by the arrival of a host of new immigrants.

In a civilized society we ought be aware of prejudice and allow everyone to be treated with respect. While Australia has moved way from the racist White Australia policy there has always been a residual element of racism which tends to become more overt during difficult economic times and encouraged by the likes of Pauline Hanson and white supremacist groups.

I'm glad you brought up the point about the Whites being the oroginal invaders! I grew up in Tennessee during the 60's when Martin luther King got assassinated in Memphis. I was there as a Teenager. Luckily for me, my Dad was a Polish Jewish, immigrant brought to New York as a kid during the Great Depression. So he experienced Prejudice first hand. He raised me with no Religion, or prejudice against the Blacks. He said don't judge others by the color of their skin, judge by their character, and actions. And just do the best you can, at all you do!
Many of my friends hated the Blacks, Jews, and probably the Hippies later. Just because their ignorant parents did! As soon as I could. I got out of there and never looked back!
And now look at America, with this Dinosaur, Racist, New President. He's doing the best he can to Steal all the wealth, for himself, and all his rich friends! It's such a shame to see the country so divided and being destroyed. And what really amazes me, is how No One does anything to stop this Madness? Just a bunch of daily Bullshit on the News. Australia is probably going through the same madness!
How can this continue?

 

[Shadrach]

By the way, whatever happened to the Uyghur People? Wasn't the fact they were Muslim the Problem? I know absolutely nothing about these People and their story? Old and New?

 

[jstar]

China and Indonesia sign a series of deals for more cooperation

China and Indonesia have made agreements to strengthen their bonds. The two countries have signed a series of cooperation agreements on policies concerning economic development, industry and supply chains, among other things.

They also want to work more closely together on tourism, health, media and the export of agricultural products. Furthermore, their sovereign investment funds concluded an investment agreement, but no details were shared on that.

Chinese Prime Minister Li Qiang has been visiting Jakarta last weekend and spoke with Indonesian President Prabowo Subianto. Li said, according to state news agency Xinhua, that both countries should explore cooperation around finance, energy, artificial intelligence and aerospace, for example.

China wants to strengthen ties with other countries because of trade tensions with the United States. Last week, the US and China significantly reduced their mutual import duties for a period of ninety days.

 

[Shadrach]

China and Indonesia sign a series of deals for more cooperation

China and Indonesia have made agreements to strengthen their bonds. The two countries have signed a series of cooperation agreements on policies concerning economic development, industry and supply chains, among other things.

They also want to work more closely together on tourism, health, media and the export of agricultural products. Furthermore, their sovereign investment funds concluded an investment agreement, but no details were shared on that.

Chinese Prime Minister Li Qiang has been visiting Jakarta last weekend and spoke with Indonesian President Prabowo Subianto. Li said, according to state news agency Xinhua, that both countries should explore cooperation around finance, energy, artificial intelligence and aerospace, for example.

China wants to strengthen ties with other countries because of trade tensions with the United States. Last week, the US and China significantly reduced their mutual import duties for a period of ninety days.

Be careful, when the Fox wants to help take care of the Hen House!

 

[John indonesia]

OVERPAID JOURNALISTS

I’ve worked at the BBC on and off for decades and I can tell you that some BBC journalists get paid A LOT. When BBC newsroom head James Harding left in 2018, his salary was GBP340,000 a year. Election specialist Jeremy Vine gets more than GBP600,000 a year.

Of course most people in the newsrooms get less than that, but at least 40 BBC journalists are paid more than the British Prime Minister’s GBP150,000 salary, a Press Gazette study showed in 2017. Political editor Laura Kuenssberg gets GBP200,000 to GBP250,000 a year, for example.

I knew a local BBC journalist. Her starting salary on the 'bottom rung' was Rp.20 million/month.
I don't really know how that compares to other fresh grads, but it may be of help with the discussion.

 

[John indonesia]

China and Indonesia sign a series of deals for more cooperation

China and Indonesia have made agreements to strengthen their bonds. The two countries have signed a series of cooperation agreements on policies concerning economic development, industry and supply chains, among other things.

There's a story about Indonesia buying Chinese J10 aircraft.
I don't know much about military aviation, but I would guess the US is going to be unhappy if the reports are true.

 

[Shadrach]

There's a story about Indonesia buying Chinese J10 aircraft.
I don't know much about military aviation, but I would guess the US is going to be unhappy if the reports are true.

There's not much to know about Military aircraft, except there mostly machines designed to blow up Everything in their path, including Peoples homes, and carry troops to go Kill people. And they're very Expensive! A better Idea is to use that money and upgrade the infrastructure, and build Schools, pay teachers, and Doctors higher wages, supply all school age kids with iPads. Develop a Social Security program for the Elderly, provide Healthcare Free for all Indonesians. Stop Corruption, and hold corrupt Politician's, Police, Government officials, Accountable for their actions!
It doesn't matter what foreign government the Money comes from. Using it this way is Not Good For The People! Or the Planet! Damai, Om Shanti, Shanti, Om!

 

[jstar]

There's a story about Indonesia buying Chinese J10 aircraft.
I don't know much about military aviation, but I would guess the US is going to be unhappy if the reports are true.

As the Australians I guess.

Didn’t the Chinese work together with the Israeli once on a fighter jet? That must given quite a stir in Washington.

Perhaps we can expect an announcement in the Indo Defence Expo and Forum shortly. Sounds like this website but it’s not.

 

[Balifrog]

There's a story about Indonesia buying Chinese J10 aircraft.
I don't know much about military aviation, but I would guess the US is going to be unhappy if the reports are true.

They have American F16, and 42 French Rafale on order.
I doubt they would add Chinese planes as it would complicate training and maintenance a lot !

Breaking News: Indonesia and France Nearing Deal for 12 Rafale jets with Submarines and Howitzers

Breaking News: Indonesia and France Nearing Deal for 12 Rafale jets with Submarines and Howitzers

armyrecognition.com

 

[harryopal1]

A brilliant Aus TV series is called Utopia... about a fictitious Nation Building Authority. The segment below is about defence and highlights the absurdity of so much that goes in relation to national defence and defence expenditure. Wonderfully funny but spot on.

 

[Shadrach]

A brilliant Aus TV series is called Utopia... about a fictitious Nation Building Authority. The segment below is about defence and highlights the absurdity of so much that goes in relation to national defence and defence expenditure. Wonderfully funny but spot on.

This is so Spot on! It shows the absurdity of Building up a defense system against the very People they want to have as Business partners! Where is Indonesia going to get this much money from? what Social Programs do they have to deny money from to have the funds to do this?
I think, First they have to stop those School Lunches for Kids! Completely deforest all of Sumatra and Borneo! Plant all the land in Palm Oil, Then repairing the roads, bridges, Schools, etc. after that raise the price on medicine, hospital stay, BPJS insurance policies! Just tell the People to tighten their belts, and eat less Rice! this reminds me of What the Trump administration is telling the Americans to do, so they can give the Ultra Rich more Tax Breaks!

 

[Bob]

There's a story about Indonesia buying Chinese J10 aircraft.
I don't know much about military aviation, but I would guess the US is going to be unhappy if the reports are true.

It might serve as a good message to Trump to calm down and stop playing games with trade and to a lesser extent immigration.

 

[John indonesia]

There's not much to know about Military aircraft, except there mostly machines designed to blow up Everything in their path, including Peoples homes, and carry troops to go Kill people. And they're very Expensive! A better Idea is to use that money and upgrade the infrastructure, and build Schools, pay teachers, and Doctors higher wages, supply all school age kids with iPads. Develop a Social Security program for the Elderly, provide Healthcare Free for all Indonesians. Stop Corruption, and hold corrupt Politician's, Police, Government officials, Accountable for their actions!
It doesn't matter what foreign government the Money comes from. Using it this way is Not Good For The People! Or the Planet! Damai, Om Shanti, Shanti, Om!

I have to be honest here. The ipad idea is rubbish. A cheap Android A9+ will do everything schoolkids need, but at a fraction of the cost.
As for the rest, the idea of educating kids instead of blowing them up seems to be, in general, a good idea.