The Uyghur and China discussion thread

@Dave70 go back about 8-10 pages in this thread, the diversity of independent sources has been thoroughly discussed, I will not be lured into your games.

I know, I know. The Western media, the MSM, we have thoroughly discussed them. And I guess, agreed to disagree.

What do you mean "lured into your games"? Do you think I enjoy doing this? I only responded when I saw comments that need "correction". If you remember, harryopal is the affectionate "troll" which started everything.
 
Don't worry Cameron, Dave just wants to be selective. Case in point.

So Dave, have you heard that UK and Europe are suggesting boycotting the 2022 Winters games in China?

Sorry, don't know, don't care.

Well one o the reasons was because of this thread, the Uyghurs and their treatment. Okay not this specific thread, but what has been discussed in it.

Maybe it is because it is the UK and EU talking about boycotting the Olympics and he didn't have any articles. Some articles are from Feb/March to as recent as a few days ago.















 
.....If you remember, harryopal is the affectionate "troll" which started everything.
I rarely take offence at anything but the above reference to my being a "troll" Is as offensive as it is misleading.

Here is a definition of troll. "In internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception. Wikipedia."

My remarks about Uyghers and other minority groups were not insincere or inflammatory but were posted out of a concern shown by many others over the widely reported CCP mistreatment of such groups. I have no desire to "manipulate" other peoples' perceptions. On the other hand the Chinese government has gone to extraordinary lengths to not jut suppress criticism but to intimidate and coerce those who have offered personal testimony of mistreatment of themselves, their families and communities.

Here are two links to recent stories detailing a pattern of CCP behaviour that is now only too familiar.


 
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So, does somebody has an explanation why NOT ANY muslim country in the world has attacked / blamed China on this ?
Because after all KSA, Turkey are bkg sponsors for mosques on the West amongst other things, and dont spare their efforts (and money) to support muslims communities in those western countries.


Mods : I understand the subject is "sensitive" , so feel free ro delete if needed.
 
I rarely take offence at anything but the above reference to my being a "troll" Is as offensive as it is misleading.

Here is a definition of troll. "In internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception. Wikipedia."

I am sorry if you take offense, in case you didn't notice, I had quotation marks "" on the word troll. And I added the word 'affectionate'.

Fact is, you started everything (for good or bad), didn't you? If you didn't post the comment, you will not get my reply. Look, harryopal's comment started this thread.

Nevertheless, my comments prevented this forum from descending into a China bashing forum. I know it's not a popular thing to do, I'm swimming against the current. It takes a brave person to 'like' the comments I made which he agreed. Nobody wants to be an outcast. I did what I know is right, you do what you think is right, no problem. You can say I'm brainwashed, I can also say you are brainwashed by the Western media.


 
So, does somebody has an explanation why NOT ANY muslim country in the world has attacked / blamed China on this ?
Because after all KSA, Turkey are bkg sponsors for mosques on the West amongst other things, and dont spare their efforts (and money) to support muslims communities in those western countries.


Mods : I understand the subject is "sensitive" , so feel free ro delete if needed.

My explanation (if you want mine)... Because it is simply NOT true, these are false allegations, lies and propaganda by the Anti-China forces (see post #260) and picked-up by some Western media.
 
I am sorry if you take offense, in case you didn't notice, I had quotation marks "" on the word troll. And I added the word 'affectionate'.

So,I I was meant to read that as some kind of compliment?

"... these are false allegations, lies and propaganda by the Anti-China forces (see post #260) and picked-up by some Western media."

Over the years I have had and lived with Chinese friends and am not interested in "China bashing". But with the CCP government we have in place a totalitarian, Orwellian regime that will not tolerate dissent within or without. Despite a constitution guaranteeing freedoms and rights the way the CCP system of "justice" functions is so often in total abnegation of rights with sealed trials, accused unable to get access to legal council and used as pawns to advance foreign policy pressures. Given the way the CCP operates it is illogical to suppose that it is incapable of the many, widespread reports of mistreatment of minorities. A withdrawal again from further follow up does not mean the pro CCP argument is proven. It is more that the predictable response of "false allegations, lies and propaganda" is so tiresome.
 
So,I I was meant to read that as some kind of compliment?

"... these are false allegations, lies and propaganda by the Anti-China forces (see post #260) and picked-up by some Western media."

Over the years I have had and lived with Chinese friends and am not interested in "China bashing". But with the CCP government we have in place a totalitarian, Orwellian regime that will not tolerate dissent within or without. Despite a constitution guaranteeing freedoms and rights the way the CCP system of "justice" functions is so often in total abnegation of rights with sealed trials, accused unable to get access to legal council and used as pawns to advance foreign policy pressures. Given the way the CCP operates it is illogical to suppose that it is incapable of the many, widespread reports of mistreatment of minorities. A withdrawal again from further follow up does not mean the pro CCP argument is proven. It is more that the predictable response of "false allegations, lies and propaganda" is so tiresome.
It is also the only way to bring a country with a population of 1,45 Billion people from the middle age to a developed country in less than 40 years.
Look where China was in 1980, and look where they are now. Highways, high speed trains, etc... 100's of millions of poor countryside people now living a working class / middle class life in the cities.

The only way to catch up on the "Western developed countries" was a strictly controlled economy.

I saw the same (on a softer scale) happening in South Korea in the mid 80's. A very strict regime, with little freedom, one generation sacrificed in order to catch up with the West, and more importantly with Japan (who was, and still is, is a traditional enemy) . And it worked ! Who would have bought a Korean car in the 80's / 90's ? Look where they are now... Same for ship building.
 
It is also the only way to bring a country with a population of 1,45 Billion people from the middle age to a developed country in less than 40 years.
Look where China was in 1980, and look where they are now. Highways, high speed trains, etc... 100's of millions of poor countryside people now living a working class / middle class life in the cities.

The only way to catch up on the "Western developed countries" was a strictly controlled economy.

I saw the same (on a softer scale) happening in South Korea in the mid 80's. A very strict regime, with little freedom, one generation sacrificed in order to catch up with the West, and more importantly with Japan (who was, and still is, is a traditional enemy) . And it worked ! Who would have bought a Korean car in the 80's / 90's ? Look where they are now... Same for ship building.
Yes, it is definitely to the Communist Party's great credit that they have transformed the material well being of that huge population. A fantastic achievement but that does give it a free pass on the many other issues for which there is valid criticism. And this is not just an internal affair, "mind your own business". China is a major player in global affairs. That totalitarian and bullying approach used to further its own ends in areas such as the Spratley Islands, its relations with South East Asian nations with similar claims and the economic trying up of the economies of so many so called Third World countries to control resources plus the ravaging of the world's oceans for fish are all matters which do not bode well for the future.

While South Korea may have operated along not dissimilar lines during the economic transformation it now seems to have become a much more liberal society and nothing like the Orwellian state run by the CCP and showing not only that it is not moving to a freer society but to the contrary, a society where the only real freedom is to agree with the rigid policies of the CCP
 
While South Korea may have operated along not dissimilar lines during the economic transformation it now seems to have become a much more liberal society and nothing like the Orwellian state run by the CCP and showing not only that it is not moving to a freer society but to the contrary, a society where the only real freedom is to agree with the rigid policies of the CCP

Give China 20 more years .......
 
Give China 20 more years .......
Perhaps, but in the meantime do we accept that there is a big bully rampaging around the world and try not to upset it, doing exactly as we are told are forget about all the nasty stuff? While the US was the major bully for many years it was not totally aloof from moral pressure and there was not total disregard for human rights and freedoms.
 
While the US was the major bully for many years it was not totally aloof from moral pressure and there was not total disregard for human rights and freedoms
Hummm, hummm, hummm..... a VERY long list, even if you start only in 1950...


Of course it was all in the name of "democracy"....

Take Irak, so you blow up their electric supply, their water distribution, all official / government buildings, communication systems, bridges... then you invade the place, disband the government, the army, the police, the juridiction system.
So NOTHING is functioning in the country anymore, but triumphally you tell the locals " but now you have democracy" .....
Really, I think China's.plan makes more sense !
Because most places the US intervened (as the sheriff of the world) they didn't even had a plan....

Latest example : Afghanistan ..... What a success story !

Let the Chinese manage their country, they have done very well over the last 30 years !
 
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Built on the back of the successes of the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.
 
Hummm, hummm, hummm..... a VERY long list, even if you start only in 1950...


Of course it was all in the name of "democracy"....

Take Irak, so you blow up their electric supply, their water distribution, all official / government buildings, communication systems, bridges... then you invade the place, disband the government, the army, the police, the juridiction system.
So NOTHING is functioning in the country anymore, but triumphally you tell the locals " but now you have democracy" .....
Really, I think China's.plan makes more sense !
Because most places the US intervened (as the sheriff of the world) they didn't have plan....

Latest example : Afghanistan ..... What a success story !

Let the Chinese manage their country, they have done very well over the last 30 years !
I am no stranger to the ugly and covert side of American foreign policy. Twice in El Salvador during the Civil war when the US was coaching Latin American right wing governments in torture and suppression of anything that looked leftist. And of course, now living in Indonesia where the US assisted the Suharto purge of anyone identified as "Leftist" with upwards of a million people being killed. The US was also able to assist with suppression of news about what was taking place.

I think we can agree to differ on how to deal with the CCP. "Let the Chinese manage their country..." Except that there are the foreign policy and world domination issues which I feel need to be raised. But, as I say, we can agree to differ.
 
@Balifrog Revolution?


Chinese authorities are requiring that the entire family of any students returning to school in the fall be vaccinated.
The restrictions placed upon the unvaccinated vary by province with some being more restricted (hotels, restaurants, etc) and others perhaps being less... Not a lot of detail, really.
 
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@Balifrog Revolution?


Chinese authorities are requiring that the entire family of any students returning to school in the fall be vaccinated.
The restrictions placed upon the unvaccinated vary by province with some being more restricted (hotels, restaurants, etc) and others perhaps being less... Not a lot of detail, really.
It's China, not really a shiny example of democracy and freedom....
 

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