The Uyghur and China discussion thread

harryopal

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Moderation Note: This thread has been split off from another thread as the topic is tangential and deserves its own thread.
You can find the originating thread here: https://www.expatindo.org/community...g-messages-to-errant-social-media-users.5963/


The section about correcting through education reminds me of China's insistence that the Uyghers are not in prison in those barbed wire wall rimmed camps but are there voluntarily for education and training.
 
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Dave70

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The section about correcting through education reminds me of China's insistence that the Uyghers are not in prison in those barbed wire wall rimmed camps but are there voluntarily for education and training.

Yes, there are prisons (just like any other country), and there are vocational training centers.

Most of the Uyghurs who were at the vocational training center had little education, had no jobs and had been influenced by ETIM terrorists in their way of thinking. For example, according to ETIM, all non-Muslims are bad and all their food are haram. Muslims must not mix with them or work with them. And if Muslims kill the “infidels” and get killed in the process, then the Muslim will go directly to heaven. Some Uyghurs left their jobs or their studies because they believed in this.

Islam does not tell Muslims to make enemies of non-Muslims who are not fighting against them.

Faced with this problem, China built the vocational training center, with the objective of changing their wrong way of thinking, get them to be familiar with the Han Chinese language and customs, get them to learn some vocational skills of their choice, and then help them to get a job.

Many Uyghur parents sent their children (who were influenced by the ETIM way of thinking) to the centers. Others were advised to attend. Islamic scholars were on hand at the centers to teach them what Islam says. They were allowed to go home for the weekends.

The program was not only very effective, but was also popular among the Uyghurs. Now, after the program has been completed and stopped, there is a huge reduction in the number of unemployed Uyghurs. Now, many Uyghurs who were unemployed have jobs or a small business of their own. And if ETIM terrorists were to come back, they will find it hard to influence the Uyghurs to follow them.
 

harryopal

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Yes, there are prisons (just like any other country), and there are vocational training centers.

Most of the Uyghurs who were at the vocational training center had little education, had no jobs and had been influenced by ETIM terrorists in their way of thinking. For example, according to ETIM, all non-Muslims are bad and all their food are haram. Muslims must not mix with them or work with them. And if Muslims kill the “infidels” and get killed in the process, then the Muslim will go directly to heaven. Some Uyghurs left their jobs or their studies because they believed in this.

Islam does not tell Muslims to make enemies of non-Muslims who are not fighting against them.

Faced with this problem, China built the vocational training center, with the objective of changing their wrong way of thinking, get them to be familiar with the Han Chinese language and customs, get them to learn some vocational skills of their choice, and then help them to get a job.

Many Uyghur parents sent their children (who were influenced by the ETIM way of thinking) to the centers. Others were advised to attend. Islamic scholars were on hand at the centers to teach them what Islam says. They were allowed to go home for the weekends.

The program was not only very effective, but was also popular among the Uyghurs. Now, after the program has been completed and stopped, there is a huge reduction in the number of unemployed Uyghurs. Now, many Uyghurs who were unemployed have jobs or a small business of their own. And if ETIM terrorists were to come back, they will find it hard to influence the Uyghurs to follow them.
This response seems to come straight out of the CCP handbook and is totally at odds with reports from many and varied sources. Today Federal German parliamentarians said the treatment of Uyghurs was similar to Nazi treatment of Jews before the holocaust.

In Australia Uyghurs are saying there is systematic torture and abuse within camps at Xinjiang. An Australian Labor Federal member of parliament, Dr Freelander said the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) seemed intent on erasing the culture of Uyghur people as it pursued the "Sinicization" of Xinjiang.

"Women are being sexually assaulted, children are being denied education and the Uyghur population is being denied appropriate health care," he said. "It is an atrocity."

Dave, are you saying that all is sweetness and light with the CCP treatment of Uyghurs and China is the victim of a worldwide propaganda conspiracy?
 

harryopal

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From the tone of Dave's reply I suspect he might also argue that the 150,000 Tibetans who have fled Tibet are all criminals who cannot appreciate the CCP efforts to "help and educate" Tibetans into correct lines of thought.
 

IndoTom

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Yes, there are prisons (just like any other country), and there are vocational training centers.

Most of the Uyghurs who were at the vocational training center had little education, had no jobs and had been influenced by ETIM terrorists in their way of thinking. For example, according to ETIM, all non-Muslims are bad and all their food are haram. Muslims must not mix with them or work with them. And if Muslims kill the “infidels” and get killed in the process, then the Muslim will go directly to heaven. Some Uyghurs left their jobs or their studies because they believed in this.

Islam does not tell Muslims to make enemies of non-Muslims who are not fighting against them.

Faced with this problem, China built the vocational training center, with the objective of changing their wrong way of thinking, get them to be familiar with the Han Chinese language and customs, get them to learn some vocational skills of their choice, and then help them to get a job.

Many Uyghur parents sent their children (who were influenced by the ETIM way of thinking) to the centers. Others were advised to attend. Islamic scholars were on hand at the centers to teach them what Islam says. They were allowed to go home for the weekends.

The program was not only very effective, but was also popular among the Uyghurs. Now, after the program has been completed and stopped, there is a huge reduction in the number of unemployed Uyghurs. Now, many Uyghurs who were unemployed have jobs or a small business of their own. And if ETIM terrorists were to come back, they will find it hard to influence the Uyghurs to follow them.
Is gang rape and sterilization part of the training program also? Should indonesia reeducate the minorities here in the same way? It seems from your post that you support it.
 

Dave70

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@IndoTom @HappyMan @R Cameron @harryopal

Before we go into the fake “proof” that the West is using against China to accuse China of genocide against the Uyghurs, let us first understand the reasons for the accusations.

In 2006, the US military came up with findings as follows:

The US Quadrennial Defense Review of 2006 stated that China has "the greatest potential of any nation to militarily compete with the US and field disruptive military technologies that over time offset traditional US advantages".

Read page 29 > https://archive.defense.gov/pubs/pdfs/QDR20060203.pdf

Following the above, the US started formulating a containment strategy against China. Obama tried to use the TPP to put China at a disadvantage in trade with TPP member countries. Then Trump put aside the TPP and started the trade war against China.

At the same time that those containment activities were being planned and implemented, Xinjiang was facing attacks from a terrorist organization called Eastern Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM). Thousands of people, including Uyghurs, were killed or maimed by the ETIM terrorists. Until today, ETIM is classified as a terrorist organization by the United Nations.

Then, just a few years ago, China sent its troops into Xinjiang to fight against the ETIM terrorists. Many were captured. Some escaped and mostly went to Turkey and the US, seeking refugee status, claiming to be freedom fighters for the “oppressed Uyghurs” in Xinjiang. A few went to Indonesia, trying to join another terrorist group there, but were caught by the Indonesian authorities and jailed, or sent back to China to face the law.

To ensure that the ETIM terrorists don’t return, China placed a tight security system in Xinjiang, including thousands of surveillance cameras and many roadblocks.

Strangely enough, the US accused China of implementing the surveillance system in order to spy on the Uyghurs in general (not on ETIM), and sanctioned the companies that put the cameras in place. It seems to me that the purpose of these sanctions is to ensure that the surveillance system will fail over a period of time, since the sanctions mean they cannot be replace with new ones when they fail.

Then the US did another strange thing: they removed ETIM from their list of terrorist organizations.

Think about that for a moment: The US blocked maintenance to the surveillance system and removed ETIM from their list of terrorist organizations. Is the US trying to send ETIM back into Xinjiang to cause new disturbances there? Or perhaps support the ETIM terrorists who the US will call “freedom fighters” who want to “liberate Xinjiang” from “China’s oppression”?

It turns out that there is evidence for the above.

Col Lawrence Wilkerson admits to US involvement in fomenting civil unrest in Xinjiang China using Uighurs. The CIA wanted to destabilize China, and intelligence strategists had decided that the best way to do it would be to foment unrest among Uyghurs in Xinjiang to create pressure on Beijing.


So the ETIM attacks were supported by the US after all?

Anyway, if the US were to support a return of ETIM to Xinjiang, then the US needs other countries to agree with it. And one way to do it is to badmouth China as much as possible, until other countries believe that China is oppressing the Uyghurs, and that is where the accusation of genocide and oppression comes in.

There are three reasons why the US wants to control Xinjiang as part of its containment policy towards China.

Firstly, Xinjiang is China’s door to the West. China’s new silk road passes through Xinjiang. If China is no longer in control of Xinjiang, then China’s trade with Central Asia, West Asia and Europe will be badly affected.

Secondly, if China has no control over Xinjiang, then China can no longer get oil from Saudi Arabia and Iran to be brought by land through Pakistan and Xinjiang, to the rest of China. It will have to use the sea route through the Straits of Malacca and the South China Sea to Shanghai. Not only is the distance longer but it is also open to attack from enemies in the case of war.

Thirdly, the Junggar Basin in northern Xinjiang has 8.68 billion tons of oil and 2.5 trillion cubic meters of gas. That’s a significant amount of oil. If Xinjiang is controlled by the US either directly or indirectly, China will not only have difficulty getting oil from the Middle East but will also not be able to extract oil from Xinjiang. Without oil, China’s economy will certainly suffer.

The US is in control of Afghanistan and can send ETIM forces into Xinjiang from Afghanistan.

Now, let us look at their ”proof” of genocide in Xinjiang.

In order to prove genocide, there must be proof of “intent to destroy”. And the proof that the US uses is what New York Times printed a couple of years ago - President Xi, in a speech, said to “arrest those who should be arrested” and “show no mercy”. And the US claim that these statements refer to the Uyghurs in general (not ETIM), thereby meeting the requirement for “intent to destroy”.

This is a lie. Xi’s statement was meant for the ETIM terrorists, not the Uyghurs in general. Anyone who can read Chinese (the original documents were in Chinese) would be able to confirm this.

Secondly, the US used the big drop in Uyghur birth rate as proof of genocide. So let us look at what caused this:

When China imposed the One Child Policy, it was imposed only on the Han Chinese. It did not apply to minority tribes, such as the Uyghur. So the Uyghurs and other minority tribes could continue to have many children.

For the Han Chinese, this measure was part of the fourth definition of genocide, except that it was not intended with “intend to destroy”, so it was not genocide.

The liars in the West try to use Xi’s statements about “arrest them” and “no mercy” to justify calling it an intent to destroy, but anyone who can read Chinese will confirm that those statements were meant for the ETIM terrorists who killed and maimed thousands of people in Xinjiang, including Hans, Uyghurs and other tribes. It was not at all addressed to the general population of Xinjiang, including Uyghurs. Besides, the one child policy was applied to the Han Chinese, not Uyghurs.

Then, many years later, China relaxed the ruling for the Han Chinese by allowing them to have two children. Meanwhile, the Uyghurs could continue to have more children.

Then, in 2017, the Two Child Policy was extended to everyone in China, including the minority tribes, which means including the Uyghurs. With this, China is further away from genocide towards the Han, since the law now applies to everyone.

So now, the Uyghurs (and other minority tribes), mostly with many more children than two, must stop having children in order to comply with the new ruling. Many of them would have started on contraceptives for the first time.

And since most Uyghurs stopped having new babies, the birth rate for Xinjiang dropped significantly.

So what does the West do? They have just found another chance to lie about China. “The big drop in birth rate means Genocide in Xinjiang!”

And that is how the fake accusation of genocide came about.
 

HappyMan

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@IndoTom @HappyMan @R Cameron @harryopal

Before we go into the fake “proof” that the West is using against China to accuse China of genocide against the Uyghurs, let us first understand the reasons for the accusations.

In 2006, the US military came up with findings as follows:

The US Quadrennial Defense Review of 2006 stated that China has "the greatest potential of any nation to militarily compete with the US and field disruptive military technologies that over time offset traditional US advantages".

Read page 29 > https://archive.defense.gov/pubs/pdfs/QDR20060203.pdf

Following the above, the US started formulating a containment strategy against China. Obama tried to use the TPP to put China at a disadvantage in trade with TPP member countries. Then Trump put aside the TPP and started the trade war against China.

At the same time that those containment activities were being planned and implemented, Xinjiang was facing attacks from a terrorist organization called Eastern Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM). Thousands of people, including Uyghurs, were killed or maimed by the ETIM terrorists. Until today, ETIM is classified as a terrorist organization by the United Nations.

Then, just a few years ago, China sent its troops into Xinjiang to fight against the ETIM terrorists. Many were captured. Some escaped and mostly went to Turkey and the US, seeking refugee status, claiming to be freedom fighters for the “oppressed Uyghurs” in Xinjiang. A few went to Indonesia, trying to join another terrorist group there, but were caught by the Indonesian authorities and jailed, or sent back to China to face the law.

To ensure that the ETIM terrorists don’t return, China placed a tight security system in Xinjiang, including thousands of surveillance cameras and many roadblocks.

Strangely enough, the US accused China of implementing the surveillance system in order to spy on the Uyghurs in general (not on ETIM), and sanctioned the companies that put the cameras in place. It seems to me that the purpose of these sanctions is to ensure that the surveillance system will fail over a period of time, since the sanctions mean they cannot be replace with new ones when they fail.

Then the US did another strange thing: they removed ETIM from their list of terrorist organizations.

Think about that for a moment: The US blocked maintenance to the surveillance system and removed ETIM from their list of terrorist organizations. Is the US trying to send ETIM back into Xinjiang to cause new disturbances there? Or perhaps support the ETIM terrorists who the US will call “freedom fighters” who want to “liberate Xinjiang” from “China’s oppression”?

It turns out that there is evidence for the above.

Col Lawrence Wilkerson admits to US involvement in fomenting civil unrest in Xinjiang China using Uighurs. The CIA wanted to destabilize China, and intelligence strategists had decided that the best way to do it would be to foment unrest among Uyghurs in Xinjiang to create pressure on Beijing.


So the ETIM attacks were supported by the US after all?

Anyway, if the US were to support a return of ETIM to Xinjiang, then the US needs other countries to agree with it. And one way to do it is to badmouth China as much as possible, until other countries believe that China is oppressing the Uyghurs, and that is where the accusation of genocide and oppression comes in.

There are three reasons why the US wants to control Xinjiang as part of its containment policy towards China.

Firstly, Xinjiang is China’s door to the West. China’s new silk road passes through Xinjiang. If China is no longer in control of Xinjiang, then China’s trade with Central Asia, West Asia and Europe will be badly affected.

Secondly, if China has no control over Xinjiang, then China can no longer get oil from Saudi Arabia and Iran to be brought by land through Pakistan and Xinjiang, to the rest of China. It will have to use the sea route through the Straits of Malacca and the South China Sea to Shanghai. Not only is the distance longer but it is also open to attack from enemies in the case of war.

Thirdly, the Junggar Basin in northern Xinjiang has 8.68 billion tons of oil and 2.5 trillion cubic meters of gas. That’s a significant amount of oil. If Xinjiang is controlled by the US either directly or indirectly, China will not only have difficulty getting oil from the Middle East but will also not be able to extract oil from Xinjiang. Without oil, China’s economy will certainly suffer.

The US is in control of Afghanistan and can send ETIM forces into Xinjiang from Afghanistan.

Now, let us look at their ”proof” of genocide in Xinjiang.

In order to prove genocide, there must be proof of “intent to destroy”. And the proof that the US uses is what New York Times printed a couple of years ago - President Xi, in a speech, said to “arrest those who should be arrested” and “show no mercy”. And the US claim that these statements refer to the Uyghurs in general (not ETIM), thereby meeting the requirement for “intent to destroy”.

This is a lie. Xi’s statement was meant for the ETIM terrorists, not the Uyghurs in general. Anyone who can read Chinese (the original documents were in Chinese) would be able to confirm this.

Secondly, the US used the big drop in Uyghur birth rate as proof of genocide. So let us look at what caused this:

When China imposed the One Child Policy, it was imposed only on the Han Chinese. It did not apply to minority tribes, such as the Uyghur. So the Uyghurs and other minority tribes could continue to have many children.

For the Han Chinese, this measure was part of the fourth definition of genocide, except that it was not intended with “intend to destroy”, so it was not genocide.

The liars in the West try to use Xi’s statements about “arrest them” and “no mercy” to justify calling it an intent to destroy, but anyone who can read Chinese will confirm that those statements were meant for the ETIM terrorists who killed and maimed thousands of people in Xinjiang, including Hans, Uyghurs and other tribes. It was not at all addressed to the general population of Xinjiang, including Uyghurs. Besides, the one child policy was applied to the Han Chinese, not Uyghurs.

Then, many years later, China relaxed the ruling for the Han Chinese by allowing them to have two children. Meanwhile, the Uyghurs could continue to have more children.

Then, in 2017, the Two Child Policy was extended to everyone in China, including the minority tribes, which means including the Uyghurs. With this, China is further away from genocide towards the Han, since the law now applies to everyone.

So now, the Uyghurs (and other minority tribes), mostly with many more children than two, must stop having children in order to comply with the new ruling. Many of them would have started on contraceptives for the first time.

And since most Uyghurs stopped having new babies, the birth rate for Xinjiang dropped significantly.

So what does the West do? They have just found another chance to lie about China. “The big drop in birth rate means Genocide in Xinjiang!”

And that is how the fake accusation of genocide came about.
Bunkum.
 

IndoTom

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@IndoTom @HappyMan @R Cameron @harryopal

Before we go into the fake “proof” that the West is using against China to accuse China of genocide against the Uyghurs, let us first understand the reasons for the accusations.

In 2006, the US military came up with findings as follows:

The US Quadrennial Defense Review of 2006 stated that China has "the greatest potential of any nation to militarily compete with the US and field disruptive military technologies that over time offset traditional US advantages".

Read page 29 > https://archive.defense.gov/pubs/pdfs/QDR20060203.pdf

Following the above, the US started formulating a containment strategy against China. Obama tried to use the TPP to put China at a disadvantage in trade with TPP member countries. Then Trump put aside the TPP and started the trade war against China.

At the same time that those containment activities were being planned and implemented, Xinjiang was facing attacks from a terrorist organization called Eastern Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM). Thousands of people, including Uyghurs, were killed or maimed by the ETIM terrorists. Until today, ETIM is classified as a terrorist organization by the United Nations.

Then, just a few years ago, China sent its troops into Xinjiang to fight against the ETIM terrorists. Many were captured. Some escaped and mostly went to Turkey and the US, seeking refugee status, claiming to be freedom fighters for the “oppressed Uyghurs” in Xinjiang. A few went to Indonesia, trying to join another terrorist group there, but were caught by the Indonesian authorities and jailed, or sent back to China to face the law.

To ensure that the ETIM terrorists don’t return, China placed a tight security system in Xinjiang, including thousands of surveillance cameras and many roadblocks.

Strangely enough, the US accused China of implementing the surveillance system in order to spy on the Uyghurs in general (not on ETIM), and sanctioned the companies that put the cameras in place. It seems to me that the purpose of these sanctions is to ensure that the surveillance system will fail over a period of time, since the sanctions mean they cannot be replace with new ones when they fail.

Then the US did another strange thing: they removed ETIM from their list of terrorist organizations.

Think about that for a moment: The US blocked maintenance to the surveillance system and removed ETIM from their list of terrorist organizations. Is the US trying to send ETIM back into Xinjiang to cause new disturbances there? Or perhaps support the ETIM terrorists who the US will call “freedom fighters” who want to “liberate Xinjiang” from “China’s oppression”?

It turns out that there is evidence for the above.

Col Lawrence Wilkerson admits to US involvement in fomenting civil unrest in Xinjiang China using Uighurs. The CIA wanted to destabilize China, and intelligence strategists had decided that the best way to do it would be to foment unrest among Uyghurs in Xinjiang to create pressure on Beijing.


So the ETIM attacks were supported by the US after all?

Anyway, if the US were to support a return of ETIM to Xinjiang, then the US needs other countries to agree with it. And one way to do it is to badmouth China as much as possible, until other countries believe that China is oppressing the Uyghurs, and that is where the accusation of genocide and oppression comes in.

There are three reasons why the US wants to control Xinjiang as part of its containment policy towards China.

Firstly, Xinjiang is China’s door to the West. China’s new silk road passes through Xinjiang. If China is no longer in control of Xinjiang, then China’s trade with Central Asia, West Asia and Europe will be badly affected.

Secondly, if China has no control over Xinjiang, then China can no longer get oil from Saudi Arabia and Iran to be brought by land through Pakistan and Xinjiang, to the rest of China. It will have to use the sea route through the Straits of Malacca and the South China Sea to Shanghai. Not only is the distance longer but it is also open to attack from enemies in the case of war.

Thirdly, the Junggar Basin in northern Xinjiang has 8.68 billion tons of oil and 2.5 trillion cubic meters of gas. That’s a significant amount of oil. If Xinjiang is controlled by the US either directly or indirectly, China will not only have difficulty getting oil from the Middle East but will also not be able to extract oil from Xinjiang. Without oil, China’s economy will certainly suffer.

The US is in control of Afghanistan and can send ETIM forces into Xinjiang from Afghanistan.

Now, let us look at their ”proof” of genocide in Xinjiang.

In order to prove genocide, there must be proof of “intent to destroy”. And the proof that the US uses is what New York Times printed a couple of years ago - President Xi, in a speech, said to “arrest those who should be arrested” and “show no mercy”. And the US claim that these statements refer to the Uyghurs in general (not ETIM), thereby meeting the requirement for “intent to destroy”.

This is a lie. Xi’s statement was meant for the ETIM terrorists, not the Uyghurs in general. Anyone who can read Chinese (the original documents were in Chinese) would be able to confirm this.

Secondly, the US used the big drop in Uyghur birth rate as proof of genocide. So let us look at what caused this:

When China imposed the One Child Policy, it was imposed only on the Han Chinese. It did not apply to minority tribes, such as the Uyghur. So the Uyghurs and other minority tribes could continue to have many children.

For the Han Chinese, this measure was part of the fourth definition of genocide, except that it was not intended with “intend to destroy”, so it was not genocide.

The liars in the West try to use Xi’s statements about “arrest them” and “no mercy” to justify calling it an intent to destroy, but anyone who can read Chinese will confirm that those statements were meant for the ETIM terrorists who killed and maimed thousands of people in Xinjiang, including Hans, Uyghurs and other tribes. It was not at all addressed to the general population of Xinjiang, including Uyghurs. Besides, the one child policy was applied to the Han Chinese, not Uyghurs.

Then, many years later, China relaxed the ruling for the Han Chinese by allowing them to have two children. Meanwhile, the Uyghurs could continue to have more children.

Then, in 2017, the Two Child Policy was extended to everyone in China, including the minority tribes, which means including the Uyghurs. With this, China is further away from genocide towards the Han, since the law now applies to everyone.

So now, the Uyghurs (and other minority tribes), mostly with many more children than two, must stop having children in order to comply with the new ruling. Many of them would have started on contraceptives for the first time.

And since most Uyghurs stopped having new babies, the birth rate for Xinjiang dropped significantly.

So what does the West do? They have just found another chance to lie about China. “The big drop in birth rate means Genocide in Xinjiang!”

And that is how the fake accusation of genocide came about.
It's obvious Dave, you are a social media troll attached to the Chinese government. The proof of crime against the Uyghur Muslim minority is factual and beyond debating. You sound like a typical rightwing holocaust denier.
 

HappyMan

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Maybe if China had a Free Press or allowed foreign journalists to operate without restriction Dave could provide some proof for some of this. What we have instead is China jailing expat journalists. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...-the-most-journalists-for-second-year-running

I'm not going to take their word for it that they are good guys, not when they are currently suppressing both local and foreign independent news sources. Honest people might be annoyed that you ask for proof, but the don't send you to jail for it.
 
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harryopal

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I think many of us are aware of the Machiavellian nature of the CIA. It's schemes and undercover programs have been shown across Latin America, Africa and anywhere else that comes within the US sphere of interest. Thus it has been with every major power going back through history.

The point of contention here is to do with the oppressive nature of Communist governments and the way in which they seek to totally control their citizens and rigorously suppress anything other than the official point of view. Do western and democratic governments not also seek to control dissidents? Of course they do but nothing like the Orwellian systems of control to be found in Communist run countries.

The methods of control being used in China are ruthless and, where deemed necessary, are employed with inhumanity and without regard to theoretical human rights. The courts of China, where cases are often closed to observers and defendants denied access to lawyers, are another example of the way the CCP maintains its omniscient presence.

Simply trying to build an argument based on foreign interference and anti Chinese propaganda does not deal with those fundamental issues of oppressive and extreme domination as continues to be the case with Uyghurs, Hong Kongers, Tibetans and. later to be added to the list, Taiwanese.
 

ChrisTex

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Yes, there are prisons (just like any other country), and there are vocational training centers.

Most of the Uyghurs who were at the vocational training center had little education, had no jobs and had been influenced by ETIM terrorists in their way of thinking. For example, according to ETIM, all non-Muslims are bad and all their food are haram. Muslims must not mix with them or work with them. And if Muslims kill the “infidels” and get killed in the process, then the Muslim will go directly to heaven. Some Uyghurs left their jobs or their studies because they believed in this.

Islam does not tell Muslims to make enemies of non-Muslims who are not fighting against them.

Faced with this problem, China built the vocational training center, with the objective of changing their wrong way of thinking, get them to be familiar with the Han Chinese language and customs, get them to learn some vocational skills of their choice, and then help them to get a job.

Many Uyghur parents sent their children (who were influenced by the ETIM way of thinking) to the centers. Others were advised to attend. Islamic scholars were on hand at the centers to teach them what Islam says. They were allowed to go home for the weekends.

The program was not only very effective, but was also popular among the Uyghurs. Now, after the program has been completed and stopped, there is a huge reduction in the number of unemployed Uyghurs. Now, many Uyghurs who were unemployed have jobs or a small business of their own. And if ETIM terrorists were to come back, they will find it hard to influence the Uyghurs to follow them.


So how do you explain the prosecution of Christians and church raids then? Are they extremist?
 

Dave70

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It's obvious Dave, you are a social media troll attached to the Chinese government. The proof of crime against the Uyghur Muslim minority is factual and beyond debating. You sound like a typical rightwing holocaust denier.

By calling me "a social media troll attached to the Chinese government", it's clear you wish to end the debate. But let me tell you that you are insulting the intelligence of Muslim countries and Muslim-majority countries including Indonesia for insinuating that they don't know about the facts happening in Xinjiang. For your information, none of them believed the CIA narrative of "crime against the Uyghur Muslims" in China.
 

Dave70

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From the tone of Dave's reply I suspect he might also argue that the 150,000 Tibetans who have fled Tibet are all criminals who cannot appreciate the CCP efforts to "help and educate" Tibetans into correct lines of thought.

Are you sure you wish to talk about Tibet? The Dalai Lama is a CIA asset.

 

harryopal

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You have ignored the points made in my previous post.

"The point of contention here is to do with the oppressive nature of Communist governments and the way in which they seek to totally control their citizens and rigorously suppress anything other than the official point of view. Do western and democratic governments not also seek to control dissidents? Of course they do but nothing like the Orwellian systems of control to be found in Communist run countries.

The methods of control being used in China are ruthless and, where deemed necessary, are employed with inhumanity and without regard to theoretical human rights. The courts of China, where cases are often closed to observers and defendants denied access to lawyers, are another example of the way the CCP maintains its omniscient presence.

Simply trying to build an argument based on foreign interference and anti Chinese propaganda does not deal with those fundamental issues of oppressive and extreme domination as continues to be the case with Uyghurs, Hong Kongers, Tibetans and. later to be added to the list, Taiwanese."
 

harryopal

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
1,094
Are you sure you wish to talk about Tibet? The Dalai Lama is a CIA asset.


And it seems that many of the forum posters have concluded you are a China CCP asset. I don't think you have to be on the pay roll to be deemed an asset.
 

R Cameron

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Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
853
How come there are STILL churches in China?
Because there are only 3 approved churches/denominations, which are controlled by the CCP and strictly censored in permissible content.
 

ChrisTex

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
747
How come there are STILL churches in China?

You missed the point. There are church raids because they can't be out in the open compared to Indonesia. They have to be underground and be secretive in China. This has been going on for decades.
 

Dave70

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
433
You have ignored the points made in my previous post.

"The point of contention here is to do with the oppressive nature of Communist governments and the way in which they seek to totally control their citizens and rigorously suppress anything other than the official point of view. Do western and democratic governments not also seek to control dissidents? Of course they do but nothing like the Orwellian systems of control to be found in Communist run countries.

The methods of control being used in China are ruthless and, where deemed necessary, are employed with inhumanity and without regard to theoretical human rights. The courts of China, where cases are often closed to observers and defendants denied access to lawyers, are another example of the way the CCP maintains its omniscient presence.

Simply trying to build an argument based on foreign interference and anti Chinese propaganda does not deal with those fundamental issues of oppressive and extreme domination as continues to be the case with Uyghurs, Hong Kongers, Tibetans and. later to be added to the list, Taiwanese."

Sorry, I did not intentionally ignore it, I just didn't read it yet.

There is no doubt that China is a 'police state', communist or not is beside the point. How do you think China can effectively control a vast country with 1.4 billion people? If China is a democracy like the US, it's done long time ago.
 

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