How Indonesian resort island Bali became a refuge for Ukrainians and Russians

[Balifrog]

Not everywhere….

Finland's "progressive punishment" when it comes to speeding tickets

Did you know getting a speeding ticket in Finland can either be very expensive or very cheap?

www.euronews.com

Traffic fines based on wealth? Europe tries it

European countries are increasingly pegging speeding fines to income as a way to punish wealthy scofflaws who would otherwise ignore tickets.

www.nbcnews.com

Now of course based on wealth would be completely impossible here. See the cases with government officials with huge amounts of cash.

But in a country like this a percentage of the original value of the car, added to the fine, might make sense. At least then it hurts a bit.

So in case of 0.5%: if you can afford a 1 billion rupiah car, you would get an additional $350 amount on the fine. With a Lambo, Rolls or Ferrari count on $5,000. And with a regular Avanza or so, it would be $100.

Well, I learned something... It is done in Finland and Switzerland, Belgium is looking into it.
No chance in France, as it would be against the basic rule "all citizens are equal in front of the law"
Personally I completely disagree with such the Swiss / Fin system. It opens the way to possible applications in other fields, and anti democratic IMO.

 

[snpark]

This is already in place in UK after loads of footballers got caught speeding to training and fined $200 when they earn $250,000 a week

So fines now are proportional to your income

 

[kripik-pisang]

Sins of Russians in Bali: leaving restaurants without paying the bill, taking a taxi somewhere, asking the driver to wait, then never coming back (the drivers who told me about this reckoned they were taking a Gojek/GoCar back thus avoiding the outbound cost.
obviously doesn't apply to everyone. I also met a Ukrainian girl living together with a Russian guy. Good for her not characterising all Russians as being Putin-like

 

[jstar]

fines are proportional to your income

It is called a Day Fine.


The governor of Bali has made some ahem ’interesting’ statements.

As said before, he wants to halt the VoA for certain groups of people entering Bali. Makes you wonder what would happen if these people travel via Jakarta or other inbound locations?

Also, he seems to think it’s a good idea to forbid the WNA to rent a motorbike*. They would have to take a(n online) taxi instead. Eh, does the good man even realize how his ‘own’ economy works? And that Grab/GoCar drivers are more and more Javanese?


*I don’t disagree there should be much more scrutiny on the rental market of course. I mean, a person who even has never driven a motorbike in her/his own country has access to a 125cc bike in a chaotic environment with different traffic rules? But they should have thought about that decades ago.

Gubernur Bali ancam cabut visa on arrival turis Ukraina dan Rusia, Dubes Ukraina protes: Saya sangat kecewa - BBC News Indonesia

Banyaknya kasus turis asing ugal-ugalan di jalan raya, tidak pakai helm, dan kebut-kebutan, menurut Gubernur Bali, tak lepas dari ketidaktegasan aparat menegakkan aturan lalu lintas.

www.bbc.com

 

[Balifrog]

And that Grab/GoCar drivers are more and more Javanese?

They used to be pre Covid and during Covid, but not anymore. Nearly 100% Balinese now. I take them nearly every day.
I remember the governor pushing that jobs in tourisme go to Balinese first some time ago.

 

[serious_fun]

Good for her not characterising all Russians as being Putin-like

One assumes that she doesn't look like the comedian zelensky!

 

[jstar]

On the KTP scandal: So five people are suspect and have been arrested. Besides the Syrian and Ukrainian three locals are caught. Two of which are officials of the Denpasar civil district offices. There is also a member of the army under investigation.

The case started when the two foreigners wanted to make an ID card pretending to be Indonesian citizens so that they could open accounts, buy property and even buy land.

In the process, the locals helped the foreigners filling out all forms for making ID cards and KK, as well as uploading the data to the Denpasar City Dukcapil TARING application and getting it approved. Syrian MNZ then received an ID Card, KK, and Birth Certificate with the name Agung Nizar Santoso, on 19 September 2022. Meanwhile, Ukrainian KR received similar population documents on behalf of Alexandre Nur Rudi, in November 2022.

 

[jstar]

And that Grab/GoCar drivers are more and more Javanese?

They used to be pre Covid and during Covid, but not anymore. Nearly 100% Balinese now. I take them nearly every day.

So I kept a bit of a tally of last week in Bali (drivers from and to Jimbaran, Seminyak and Denpasar):
Grab and GoCar: 8 trips; 2 Balinese, 4 Javanese, 2 NTT
GoJek: 5 trips; 3 Balinese, 1 Javanese, 1 Papua

So it looks like Sanur could be more local, but there definitely was (still?) a large non-local presence at the west coast.

 

[pantaiema]

So I kept a bit of a tally of last week in Bali (drivers from and to Jimbaran, Seminyak and Denpasar):
Grab and GoCar: 8 trips; 2 Balinese, 4 Javanese, 2 NTT
GoJek: 5 trips; 3 Balinese, 1 Javanese, 1 Papua

So it looks like Sanur could be more local, but there definitely was (still?) a large non-local presence at the west coast.

With a population of 151.6 million people, Java is the world's most populous island in the world. From Indonesian POV, it is a home to approximately 56% of the Indonesian population.
As it is inthe same country, it can not be avoided. It is the human nature they will move to the place where they have a better opportunities, where the grass is greener. Most people (if not all) in that situation will do the same things. Let alone it is just a matter of channel crossing to Bali.

 

[jstar]

As it is inthe same country, it can not be avoided.

That is somewhat short-sighted and lacks quite some nuance and cultural perspective. The Dutch implemented in the past the principle of transmigration in the Archipelago, to have people move from the overpopulated and poor areas to places where there was work. Indonesia continued with this ‘inheritance’. The result is in fact something that we can call Javanization. Coincidently or not, that also leads to Islamization.

Bali is not an official destination in these programs. But what we can see as result of the influx from Russians and many of the complaints, we can also recognize from workers from Java; also they are competing for jobs with locals. And it creates neighborhoods with people from certain backgrounds.

The Balinese ‘problem’ has always been that tradition, culture, ceremonies and rituals were given priority. Then you shouldn’t be surprised that others with a more capitalist character take over the businesses. And they don’t have, as in Yogyakarta for instance, regulations that only locals can own land. In the area of Sanur there was practically only HGB possible but that is rather exceptional. The central government has with the e-KTP for instance, made it very easy to settle in permanently. And giving temporary residence only was something that esp. the Balinese used as a tool to avoid workers from other islands getting a permanent address.

It will be interesting to see how it develops.

 

[SamR]

GoJek: 5 trips; 3 Balinese, 1 Javanese, 1 Papua

Last time I was in Bali, I had a Jakartan Gojek driver (B Plate). He said he kept going east, east, east trying his luck in various cities until he finally arrived at Bali and thought that was where he did best.

The result is in fact something that we can call Javanization. Coincidently or not, that also leads to Islamization.

Would the "ization" be a two-way street though. Hired a car once for a few days during a trip to Bali, the driver was Javanese and is a Muslim. I didn't ask about whether his wife converted or not, but his Balinese seemed very fluent (at least to me) and he speaks Indonesian with a Balinese accent rather than a Javanese one. Says that outside of religion, he feels more Balinese rather than Javanese.

 

[Samoerai]

Last time I was in Bali, I had a Jakartan Gojek driver (B Plate). He said he kept going east, east, east trying his luck in various cities until he finally arrived at Bali and thought that was where he did best.


Would the "ization" be a two-way street though. Hired a car once for a few days during a trip to Bali, the driver was Javanese and is a Muslim. I didn't ask about whether his wife converted or not, but his Balinese seemed very fluent (at least to me) and he speaks Indonesian with a Balinese accent rather than a Javanese one. Says that outside of religion, he feels more Balinese rather than Javanese.

From https://www.nowbali.co.id/islam-tolerance-in-bali/

"Yet there is no doubt that a process of Islamic Revivalism is on. It has spread to Bali through two great Java-based organisations: Muhammadiah, and Nadhatul Ulama. The first, wary of Islamic mysticism and Sufism, emphasizes a purification of Islam from all non-Islamic cultural elements and as such condemns the cult of Islamic saints. Its influence rests mainly on a network of “modern” urban school based on the national curriculum with the adjunction of religious teaching. The second is often openly Sufi; it hosts Sufi brotherhoods such as al-Quadiriah and emphasises a mystic approach that may – like for example in Seseh – enable shared rites with Hindu-Balinese around a holy tomb of a local Muslim saint.

As a whole however, tolerance still prevails for Islam in Bali, even though there is an underlying tendency toward social separation between the Muslim and Hindu-Balinese communities. A new kind of Balinese tolerance may well have to be invented. A tolerance based not on the affirmation of “sameness” between Hinduism and Islam, but on the acceptance of their total difference. This is a challenge for the future."

 

[pantaiema]

This is "Intan" in Bingin Beach, located in the Pecatu Village, around 10 minutes from Uluwatu Temple in Bali.


She has been vlogging her passion as an expressionist wearing various thongs, bikinis on the beach around Indonesia to match the "bule" in Bali.
She has been documenting her journeys in here:

https://www.youtube.com/@intanculess/videos

I have no connection with Intan apart from sharing the same views. Keep in mind noone is forcing a person like Intan to dress like that. For someone like Intan wearing swimwear is a way of expressing their confidence and sexuality. They might feel comfortable and empowered in their bodies, and they may want to show that off. It is the same thing with body builders on the stage. Noone has been left disadvantage unless they choose to play a role as a victim. It is a win win situation they want to get attraction they get attraction.

I personally would like to see more Indonesian expressionists like Intan to balance or challenge the view of people who want to see Indonesians women to wear Burkhas, Hijabs. Aceh is already there, the balance views and tolerance will halt the extremists movement who want to see Indonesia like Afghanistan.

Hopefully someday Indonesia will have nudist beach, or like FKK in Germany.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

An FKK in Aceh , now that would be something

 

[snpark]

This is "Intan" in Bingin Beach, located in the Pecatu Village, around 10 minutes from Uluwatu Temple in Bali.


She has been vlogging her passion as an expressionist wearing various thongs, bikinis on the beach around Indonesia to match the "bule" in Bali.
She has been documenting her journeys in here:

https://www.youtube.com/@intanculess/videos

I have no connection with Intan apart from sharing the same views. Keep in mind noone is forcing a person like Intan to dress like that. For someone like Intan wearing swimwear is a way of expressing their confidence and sexuality. They might feel comfortable and empowered in their bodies, and they may want to show that off. It is the same thing with body builders on the stage. Noone has been left disadvantage unless they choose to play a role as a victim. It is a win win situation they want to get attraction they get attraction.

I personally would like to see more Indonesian expressionists like Intan to balance or challenge the view of people who want to see Indonesians women to wear Burkhas, Hijabs. Aceh is already there, the balance views and tolerance will halt the extremists movement who want to see Indonesia like Afghanistan.

Hopefully someday Indonesia will have nudist beach, or like FKK in Germany.

Of course it helps she is attractive and slim with large breasts too right?

 

[kripik-pisang]

I think some time spent in the the "Ruski" motherland may temper sympathies for the supporters of Herr putin , seeing the the life of working people ,facing the mafia on occasion etc etc , may be good medicine . We are not talking about government propoganda only personal experience .

What's with the Herr Putin has he emigrated to Germany?

 

[kripik-pisang]

Of course it helps she is attractive and slim with large breasts too right?

Shame she's not intelligent as well.

 

[pantaiema]

Shame she's not intelligent as well.

Well how could you know that. Keep in mind she is generating a passive income doing what she likes by creating vlogs regularly. She keeps making money indefinitely while she is sleeping as long as people are still watching it. Content Creation is a well known business model to earn a passive income. The income she earns might be more than the majority of Indonesian people wages working 9:00-17:00 on regular jobs.

There are some Nomads could effort to live in Bali/Indonesia, in Pattaya, Koh-Samui, Phuket by funding their western lifestyles from the vlogs they are creating regularly documenting their daily life in Bali.

The incomes are earned in these ways:

YT Advertising revenue: This is the most common way for YouTubers to make money. When people watch videos with ads, the advertiser pays YouTube a certain amount of money. YouTube then shares a portion of this revenue with the YouTuber. The amount of money a YouTuber makes from ad revenue depends on a number of factors, including the number of views, the type of ads, and the location of the viewers.

Sponsorships: YouTubers can also make money by partnering with brands and promoting their products or services in their videos. This is known as sponsorship. Brands typically pay YouTubers a certain amount of money for each mention or link to their product or service.

Merchandise: YouTubers can also sell merchandise, such as t-shirts, hats, and mugs, to their fans. This is a great way to generate additional income and build a stronger relationship with their audience.

Donations: YouTubers can also receive donations from their fans. This is often done through platforms like Patreon or Streamlabs. Donations are a great way to show appreciation helping them to support their content creation.

 

[Nimbus]

Well, I learned something... It is done in Finland and Switzerland, Belgium is looking into it.
No chance in France, as it would be against the basic rule "all citizens are equal in front of the law"
Personally I completely disagree with such the Swiss / Fin system. It opens the way to possible applications in other fields, and anti democratic IMO.

France also has a progressive income tax system, where richer people are taxed more. That doesn’t contradict equality under the law, because everybody at the same income level is taxed at the same rate. Applying the same concept to fines should not be a problem.

If the fine is not progressive, then it is simply a law against the poor. Imagine a street in Jakarta where parking is prohibited, and the fine is Rp 500K. The vast majority of people will avoid it, but for the guys who drive a Lambo it’s a drop in the bucket. If they need to park there to do business, they’ll just pay the fine.

 

[Bob]

This is "Intan" in Bingin Beach, located in the Pecatu Village, around 10 minutes from Uluwatu Temple in Bali.


She has been vlogging her passion as an expressionist wearing various thongs, bikinis on the beach around Indonesia to match the "bule" in Bali.
She has been documenting her journeys in here:

https://www.youtube.com/@intanculess/videos

I have no connection with Intan apart from sharing the same views. Keep in mind noone is forcing a person like Intan to dress like that. For someone like Intan wearing swimwear is a way of expressing their confidence and sexuality. They might feel comfortable and empowered in their bodies, and they may want to show that off. It is the same thing with body builders on the stage. Noone has been left disadvantage unless they choose to play a role as a victim. It is a win win situation they want to get attraction they get attraction.

I personally would like to see more Indonesian expressionists like Intan to balance or challenge the view of people who want to see Indonesians women to wear Burkhas, Hijabs. Aceh is already there, the balance views and tolerance will halt the extremists movement who want to see Indonesia like Afghanistan.

Hopefully someday Indonesia will have nudist beach, or like FKK in Germany.

No it won’t.
Bali used to be a very tolerant place for uninhibited ladies. On the beaches monokinis were very common along with the occasional nokini. No one seemed to mind since it was just on the beach and not on the streets.
I guess it was in the mid-90’s that the powers that be put an end to that. Men (locals) would go along the beach telling women to cover themselves.
The point is that those who want to impose puritanical behaviour on everyone aren’t dissuaded by women wearing small swimwear.
Don’t forget that Christians, Hindus, etc. do the same. It’s not about religion; it’s about control.