Decrease of Indonesian Middle Class

Some say Indonesians are nice and polite people. Huh?

Not my experience. Most of them are rude ... holding a door for another person just a couple of steps behind, is too much asked for. Yesterday in the elevator I grabbed a phone out of the hands of a child, because the volume was too hard. His mother stand next to him. Most of them just don't consider other people. I can keep going on with more examples.
Don't know where you are hanging out but the Indoneisans I meet are extremely polite and caring . Grabbing phones out of children's hands is probably not helping you in the image department. When I walk around the kampung, I end up being gone for a long time just because everybody want's to chat and/or feed me something. Indoneisa is more about community than many places I have visited, at least in the places I hang out. Obviously, YMMV.
 
I learn most people, regardless their country and origin are nice, respectful, not rude - however there's situation and condition that probably turn few and some of them to be an evil. And there's particular condition that make worsening. This particular situation could be many thing including ourself.
Before we moved to KZ, we had an impression that KZ people were cold, rude, arrogant, supicious to foreigner.
We had the same impression from few of our colleague there; but having lived and interact directly, once you respect them, I can say they are one of nicest and warmest people on earth.
We had two farewell parties, with my office colleagues, nice, freeflow wine and beer but nothing special, and then with KZ friends, full of hugs and tears.

My wife was a volunteer in Outpost, an organization, that help all new comer to live in the host countries. Despite top class facility provided by company, not all people or family easily adapt their new home.
Major issues, particularly for first time expat, in addition to culture shock, feeling superior or expert for everything, bring their "standard", value and measures; assume everything different is inferior.
 
The poor Indonesians couldn't afford to see American movies or cable/satellite TV to view American shows. Evidently you have not bothered to pay any attention to the home grown soap opera shows being broadcast on free TV. Those are some f***ked up story lines. Maybe they just mirror Indonesia society. Everybody cheating in their spouse with someone more rich, Sleeping with the housekeepers, wives being made slaves to the MiL, family if one spouse who are poor moving in and taking over the richer spouse's house, theft of all the legal ownership documentation, and while a few may see a short stay in jail, no one ever prosecuted. Take a look if you want to see what people are watching. Then go look at the Indian shows they offer. You can leave America out of it.
I can leave America out of it? Don't be ridiculous.
The point is that there was cultural change. I'll maintain my comment about the negative influence of American media. Yes other, likely stronger, factors would have been at play also, but what were they? How would home grown sinetrons today cause behavioral changes starting two generations ago?
Indonesians are still all in all polite compared to other places I've seen. My comment is more about the groups of youth that tend act like they're from New Jersey, which used to be very rare.
 
Last edited:
Some say Indonesians are nice and polite people. Huh?

Not my experience. Most of them are rude ... holding a door for another person just a couple of steps behind, is too much asked for. Yesterday in the elevator I grabbed a phone out of the hands of a child, because the volume was too hard. His mother stand next to him. Most of them just don't consider other people. I can keep going on with more examples.
Asking the mother to turn down the volume would probably have been effective.
 
Well, children need boudaries. If parents fail, I will give them some. I also stop children playing basketball in a shop .. in the mall. Or biking in the mall ..

But yes, everyone their own mileage.
Fair but some people (me included) would not be happy with a stranger snatching a phone of my childs hands regardless of the reason. We would defintlely have had words about that and maybe it wouldn't have escalated more but the possibllity would have existed based on prevailing attitudes. Just something to keep in mind before touching someone else or their possesions.
 
Huh? All words .. in reality? If some child (about 10 years) hit you in the mall with a bike ... and I grab the bike ..I have to think before touching?
You are 'allegedly' the adult, a child is a child. I know places where you would be arrested and likely be put on a child abuse register if you touch a child in an aggressive manner- including snatching something out of their hands.
You are probably very lucky that this happened in Indonesia because had you done it in the UK the cops would be calling.
 
Cops should go after the real criminals and child abusers in the UK first, instead of knocking on my door. I heard of many cases cops were slipping. Jimmy Savile?


And also in the UK now ... because apparently there are no boundaries for children ... the sex offenders now are children ..
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20241203_171420_Chrome.jpg
    Screenshot_20241203_171420_Chrome.jpg
    62.3 KB · Views: 24
Last edited:
Cops should go after the real criminals and child abusers in the UK first instead of knocking on my door. I heard of many cases cops were slipping. Jimmy Savile?

Most people everywhere are protective of their children. If you insist on physicaly restraining wayward children I would think it is just a matter of time before you might be assaulted let alone having police get into the matter.
 
Most people everywhere are protective of their children. If you insist on physicaly restraining wayward children I would think it is just a matter of time before you might be assaulted let alone having police get into the matter.
I am not restraining them. I gave back the phone after turning down the volume. The bike I gave to the satpam in the mall, telling the satpam also to give the child notice to bike outside the mall. That satpam told me they already did many times, but still they (apprently more than 1) keep doing it. Maybe those anak2 belong to a 5-star general? Didn't look like one ... came out if nowhere suddenly.

But if someday I am not posting anymore ...
 
Last edited:
Most people everywhere are protective of their children. If you insist on physicaly restraining wayward children I would think it is just a matter of time before you might be assaulted let alone having police get into the matter.
Yes. People need to remember that if one reacts, many follow knowing or not knowing the reason. Many have died or come close to it in those encounters. Then there are no witnesses. Even the police join in at times to get in a few licks. Not a bright thing to do anywhere.

Make sure everyone understands that these children can't help it. It's America's fault.
 
... When I walk around the kampung, I end up being gone for a long time just because everybody want's to chat and/or feed me something.
Walk longer and you'll go home with plastic bag full of home made food. 😄
1000179690.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bob
Huh? All words .. in reality? If some child (about 10 years) hit you in the mall with a bike (real and actual case), what would you do .. I grab the bike ..will we have words? And I have to think before touching? We will have not much of a discussion, right?

But indeed I have words with fathers who bring in children in to the gym. It's not allowed. Children die in the gym (e.g. child of mike tyson). Still the fathers say "but .. but .. but". No buts .. respect the boundaries man.

Same with the phone .. not effective with just asking to turn it down.
If I had acted like you as the adult, they couldn't torture that information out of me but yet here you are proud of it. Keep it up and your luck will run out someday.
 
If I had acted like you as the adult, they couldn't torture that information out of me but yet here you are proud of it. Keep it up and your luck will run out someday.
Sounds like a threat .. like another post before. Are you going to report me? Don't feel save in this forum anymore .

Sayonara!
 
Last edited:
Sounds like a threat .. like another post before. Are you going to report me? Don't feel save in this forum anymore .

Sayonara!
I have no idea what you are going on about. What you do or what happens to you is no skin off my back. How is it a threat to let you know that behavior is unacceptable and there could be consequences of some kind according the other party involved. I'm actually trying to help you keep from getting hurt or arrested. Your're welcome.
 
Yes. People need to remember that if one reacts, many follow knowing or not knowing the reason. Many have died or come close to it in those encounters. Then there are no witnesses. Even the police join in at times to get in a few licks. Not a bright thing to do anywhere.

Make sure everyone understands that these children can't help it. It's America's fault.
That's ridiculous, to blame America for children misbehaving in another country. These children probably have not been taught properly by their parents!
 
Does anyone have a link to the BPS report the article was based on? I want to see the complete spectrum of spending/class analysis and how the research was calculated.

There seems to be a lot of articles on this topic.



It looks like most of the drop in household spending was Indonesian households falling down the ladder. Very few climbed up. Population increased by about 12 million between 2019 and 2024 (267.3 vs 279.4). My interpretation of the rueters data is most of that increase was in the vunerable category . It looks like that is anyone that spends under 875,000 idr per month.

Spending over 10 juta was only 1 out of 279 people. I try to point this out to other expats and many of the wealthier Indonesians I tend to socialize with. They all compare themselves to the handful of super rich in the country. They all are in the same social circles and don't relize how different it is for them than the majority of Indonesia. They call themselves middle class, but they are by far the upper class.

What is interesting to me is how this has not affected other major markets such as real estate. You would think such a drastic decrease in household income would affect it. Maybe the real estate market is driven by the wealthy few. Maybe Indonesians value real estate so much they are willing to spend a large portion of their income on it.
 
Spending over 10 juta was only 1 out of 279 people. I try to point this out to other expats and many of the wealthier Indonesians I tend to socialize with. They all compare themselves to the handful of super rich in the country. They all are in the same social circles and don't relize how different it is for them than the majority of Indonesia. They call themselves middle class, but they are by far the upper class.

What is interesting to me is how this has not affected other major markets such as real estate. You would think such a drastic decrease in household income would affect it. Maybe the real estate market is driven by the wealthy few. Maybe Indonesians value real estate so much they are willing to spend a large portion of their income on it.
Indonesians will tell you that they do not want to compare with someone that are worse off than them. Comparing to Western peers they are a middle class, because they live in a wester style and income bubble.

Real estate is heavilly affected, effectivelly the market is stalled for a long time. Second hand apartments are impossible to sell in Jakarta unless with deep discounts. Commercial real estate too (rukos), unless it is on some good location or it is a warehouse. Landed property still finds buyers. I

As the state increases the taxes and the effectiveness of the tax collection, combined with increased bureacratic innefficiancy and no clear vision, FDI will dip down further, as well as the middle class and the whole economy. If there is a negative commodity price shock (and Trump in office wants to make the oil and probably the other commodities cheaper) the whole economy can sink in the style of 1998 crisis.
 

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Follow Us

Latest Expat Indo Articles

Latest Tweets by Expat Indo

Latest Activity

New posts Latest threads

Online Now

Newest Members

Forum Statistics

Threads
6,283
Messages
104,823
Members
3,549
Latest member
Latesttechno_
Back
Top Bottom