Visa Options for ex-WNI (Vitas, Kitas, Kitap)

jstar

Mr. 10,000
Joined
Jul 31, 2016
Messages
4,304
According to the latest Immigration fees on line, Kitas 1 year IDR 1,500 and Kitap 5 yrs IDR 5,000,000.


Don't forget the ongoing MERPs

(and SKTT/KTP OA)


which all will cost you.
 

Tinoz

Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
11
Hey all,

I figured out that there are many uncertainties and questions still floating around regarding the visa options for ex-WNI even though there were many threads written about it. So, I thought this is probably a good place to gather all the information in one place.I will start with some frequently asked questions (feel free to correct me if I get it wrong, add some more questions or answers, etc.)

1. What are the Visa options for ex-WNI hoping to return to Indonesia?
Based on UU no.6 2011 Pasal 52f and 54d. Any ex-WNI that can prove their prior citizenship (Akte Lahir, KK, or Passport) are allowed to obtain KITAP directly without having to fulfill the length requirement of the other type of KITAS (note: you still need to get a KITAS first before converting to KITAP)

2. What would be the first step to get a KITAS?
First of all, you need a valid visa (that can be converted to KITAS) to enter Indonesia, i.e. Vitas or Sosbud visa.
IMO, The best option would be Vitas obtained from abroad before entering Indo. That way you can convert it to KITAS without heading overseas. The visa category for you would be 'repatriation'. I won't go into the detail of what documents are needed, there is abundant information available online, or talk to your migration agent.

3. Do I need a sponsor?
Yes, it can be your parents, close relative (uncle/aunt) or Indonesian spouse. Note that their KTP address will determine which Kantor Imigrasi you need to apply it from.

4. What happen next when I get my KITAS?
In order to convert it to KITAP, apart from all the other documents, you need to get an SKTT. And for ex-WNI, getting a SKTT is quite a tricky matter because you need to first get a 'surat pelepasan kewarganegaraan' as a legal document showing you that you really have let go of your Indo citizenship. The prerequisite for getting this document is a statement letter from your local overseas consulate showing that you have surrendered your Indo passport.

See below for a full guide on how to get 'surat pelepasan kewarganegaraan'

Once you get an SKTT, then the process to convert to KITAP (alih status) will be 'quite straighforward', just follow the official procedures.

5. Can I work with this ex-WNI Visa?
I can't give you a legal opinion on this matter, but from what I gather around, UU no 6 2011 pasal 61 says that if you are a KITAS/KITAP holder from repatriation, you are allowed to 'melakukan pekerjaan dan/atau usaha untuk memenuhi kebutuhan hidup dan/atau keluarganya'. Now, interpreting this is the difficult matter. I think as a safe rule of thumb, if you want to work formally as a professional, you need to get your company to issue an IMTA. If you want to work informally (jualan bakso, ngajar les, etc.), then you don't need an IMTA. Anything in between, it is up to you to figure out.

6. Can you recommend any migration Agent that understand the process for ex-WNI?
I have only had experience with MSJ consulting ( https://kitas.id/ ), they are quite knowledgable and professional. But then again they are quite expensive (just like any other agent) so use them with your own discernment.

These are the only thing I can think of at the moment. Feel free to add stuff below that I missed

Hi,
I am in the middle of getting information regarding point no.5 Can I work with this ex WNI visa? My husband and I are looking for ways to generate income to provide for ourselves here.

The immigration officer who is processing my Kitap now did say that if I wanted to open a warung or other small businesses it would be ok. However, where does it say this in writing?

So UU no.6 2011 pasal 61 is open for interpretation?

The immigration asked me to check with Depnaker to get confirmed answer. I did, but then Depnaker told me to go to Kementrian Ketenagakerjaan as they stopped dealing with TKA in 2018

I went to the Kementrian Ketenagakerjaan RI today. The lady behind the counter who I may say doesn't know much about giving information other than directing me to their website to put application in for IMTA. She said that if my brother a WNI and my husband a WNA want to make a PT, it would fall under joint venture. I don't know where she got her info from:-( She then asked a guy who happened to stand next to me at the next locket if it was true that only PT could employ TKA. He said that was true. But when I asked why, both the lady and the guy couldn't give a definitive answer. She told me to go to Kementrian Perekonomian to check what a PT is allowed and not allowed to do.

Oh, she also said that even if I open a warung, I must have a work permit from them, but she added that she didn't know how I could get the permit and told me to check UMKM website and see if they have information for me. I was really confused, I asked her why and I said that normally warung and small takeaway shops are not badan hukum. She miraculously said "they are badan hukum". So I asked if small moms and pops shops, small rumah makan were also badan hukum like PT, she said "yes".
So I just left, no point spending more time speaking with her, as she obviously have no clue whatsoever.

I need some advice. Anyone knows more about what what ex-WNI can and can't do in terms of working?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 

dannyboy

Active Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
67
Hi,
I am in the middle of getting information regarding point no.5 Can I work with this ex WNI visa? My husband and I are looking for ways to generate income to provide for ourselves here.

The immigration officer who is processing my Kitap now did say that if I wanted to open a warung or other small businesses it would be ok. However, where does it say this in writing?

So UU no.6 2011 pasal 61 is open for interpretation?

The immigration asked me to check with Depnaker to get confirmed answer. I did, but then Depnaker told me to go to Kementrian Ketenagakerjaan as they stopped dealing with TKA in 2018

I went to the Kementrian Ketenagakerjaan RI today. The lady behind the counter who I may say doesn't know much about giving information other than directing me to their website to put application in for IMTA. She said that if my brother a WNI and my husband a WNA want to make a PT, it would fall under joint venture. I don't know where she got her info from:-( She then asked a guy who happened to stand next to me at the next locket if it was true that only PT could employ TKA. He said that was true. But when I asked why, both the lady and the guy couldn't give a definitive answer. She told me to go to Kementrian Perekonomian to check what a PT is allowed and not allowed to do.

Oh, she also said that even if I open a warung, I must have a work permit from them, but she added that she didn't know how I could get the permit and told me to check UMKM website and see if they have information for me. I was really confused, I asked her why and I said that normally warung and small takeaway shops are not badan hukum. She miraculously said "they are badan hukum". So I asked if small moms and pops shops, small rumah makan were also badan hukum like PT, she said "yes".
So I just left, no point spending more time speaking with her, as she obviously have no clue whatsoever.

I need some advice. Anyone knows more about what what ex-WNI can and can't do in terms of working?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Tinoz,

Unfortunately I can't give you any advice regarding this. As you have experienced yourself, most of the people who are supposed to know what the law means have no clue what they are talking about. I've found lawyers the same in this case.

I think to sum up what I've heard so far:
1. You can get an IMTA as an ex-WNI or spouse sponsored kitap holder and work just like a TKA. The problem then is that you can only work specifically on the job that is listed on your IMTA, assuming that the company is eligible to get you one. Also, you are not really a TKA since your KITAP is not linked to your job.

2. Some argue that you might be able to work so long as the company is not 'badan hukum'. Now that is loosely defined in Indonesia. This might be helpful to know (if you can read bahasa)
https://www.kompasiana.com/pardosi/...usaha-berbadan-hukum-dan-tidak-berbadan-hukum
 

Tinoz

Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
11
Hi Tinoz,

Unfortunately I can't give you any advice regarding this. As you have experienced yourself, most of the people who are supposed to know what the law means have no clue what they are talking about. I've found lawyers the same in this case.

I think to sum up what I've heard so far:
1. You can get an IMTA as an ex-WNI or spouse sponsored kitap holder and work just like a TKA. The problem then is that you can only work specifically on the job that is listed on your IMTA, assuming that the company is eligible to get you one. Also, you are not really a TKA since your KITAP is not linked to your job.

2. Some argue that you might be able to work so long as the company is not 'badan hukum'. Now that is loosely defined in Indonesia. This might be helpful to know (if you can read bahasa)
https://www.kompasiana.com/pardosi/...usaha-berbadan-hukum-dan-tidak-berbadan-hukum

Hi dannyboy, thank you for the info.
"Some argue", who are they? It is frustrating not knowing for sure and to think that your fate is at the mercy of someone else :-(

I am meeting with an immigration agent tomorrow. Maybe he can give me some useful information. Fingers crossed. If he does, I'll definitely share it here.

Would anyone be able to tell me if me as an ex-WNI when getting my Kitap, will be considered a permanent resident? Is Kitap like permanent residency? Other than being able to stay here for 5 years, what else can you do?

In Australia a permanent resident has the same rights as a citizen, apart from being able to vote. Permanent residents are allowed to seek work wherever they wish and purchase a property :)

I was just wondering if there was a similar status to the Australian permanent residency in Indonesia, other than Kitap.

Is there an ex-WNI Kitap holder who is working now or owns a business here? Would really like to hear about your experiences.
 

jstar

Mr. 10,000
Joined
Jul 31, 2016
Messages
4,304
Is there an ex-WNI Kitap holder....

I think you focus too much on the ex-WNI aspect here. And yes, that is the closest you can get to permanent residency.

There are no different types of ITAPs which offer different perks to their holders. Indonesia doesn't have -as India- an Overseas Citizenship program which gives people a certain parity with non-resident nationals.

And it's one of the few countries where a residence permit can be/is disconnected from a work permit. So it's not the same as PR status in Singapore or a Green Card in the US or a EU residence permit.

But it allows you to have a KTP (which is already an advantage), longer period SIM, less/no extensions, ...
 

yantiharun1

Active Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2020
Messages
77
The path is always via KITAS.

So VITAS ➡ (K)ITAS ➡ (K)ITAP

But yes, you would qualify:

Pasal 54 (1) Undang-undang No 6. Tahun 2011 tentang Keimigrasian yaitu : Izin Tinggal Tetap dapat diberikan kepada (d) Orang Asing eks WNI dan eks subjek anak berkewarganegaraan ganda Republik Indonesia.

Peraturan Pemerintah Republik Indonesia Nomor 31 tahun 2013 Tentang Peraturan Pelaksanaan Undang-Undang Nomor 6 Tahun 2011 Tentang Keimigrasian. Pasal 152(1)
Izin Tinggal Tetap dapat diberikan kepada:
a. Orang Asing pemegang Izin Tinggal terbatas sebagai rohaniawan, pekerja, investor, dan lanjut usia;
b. Keluarga karena perkawinan campuran;
c. Suami, istri, dan/atau anak dari Orang Asing pemegang Izin Tinggal Tetap; dand.

And in Article 152 it is mentioned in paragraph 3 that you'd obtain a permanent residence permit (=ITAP) by a change in status.

Hello,
Thanks so much for your response Jstar, you've been very helpful!
Finally, I've received "Izin Tinggal Terbatas Electronic/Electronic Limited Stay Permit" for 12 months sent via email. Can you tell me if this is a Vitas or Kitas?
Now, can I immediately apply for 5yr. Kitap? I am an ex wni.

Thank you









IZIN TINGGAL TERBATAS ELEKTRONIK
ELECTRONIC LIMITED STAY PERMIT
 

Sine

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2021
Messages
28
Hi friends!

I’m an 32 years old ex Wni, currently in Indo with C318 Repatriasi KITAS, unmarried sponsored by parents. I’m still undecided whether I want to become Wni.

I hope friends can answer some of my questions and share your experience, more over perhaps have similar experience with me:

1. What are the visa options for unmarried adult ex. Wni? Beside c318, is there any other categories?

2. Is it compulsory for KITAP holder obtained via c318 KITAS to apply for Indo citizenship by the end of their 5th year KITAP?
2a) Given that the reason we were given c318 KITAS / allowed to stay in Indo based on the promises that eventually we will apply for Indo citizenship. But is it mandatory tho and where can i find it in UU?
2b) How bout the Perhukumham no. 43 2015 that says ex Wni can get KITAP even though they don’t want to become Wni? Is it annulled or perhaps revised?

3. is there anyway for ex Wni to have KITAP without becoming WNI (given they are unmarried and sponsored by parents, my case no luck yet in love Dept.)?

4. Is it possible for ex. Wni (adult, unmarried, with both Wni parents) to get c317 KITAS Penyatuan Keluarga?
4a) If yes, which option should I pick? I couldn’t find it when I applied online, bc my VOA been extended several times and almost expired, I picked c318.
4b) If no, what are my options?

Thank you friends! Even if you don’t have the answers, I would like to hear about your experience, even more if you have similar case as I am. Thanks again and hope you all have tons of luck and blessing in applying for visas and working with immigration officers.
 

dannyboy

Active Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
67
Hi friends!

I’m an 32 years old ex Wni, currently in Indo with C318 Repatriasi KITAS, unmarried sponsored by parents. I’m still undecided whether I want to become Wni.

I hope friends can answer some of my questions and share your experience, more over perhaps have similar experience with me:

1. What are the visa options for unmarried adult ex. Wni? Beside c318, is there any other categories?

2. Is it compulsory for KITAP holder obtained via c318 KITAS to apply for Indo citizenship by the end of their 5th year KITAP?
2a) Given that the reason we were given c318 KITAS / allowed to stay in Indo based on the promises that eventually we will apply for Indo citizenship. But is it mandatory tho and where can i find it in UU?
2b) How bout the Perhukumham no. 43 2015 that says ex Wni can get KITAP even though they don’t want to become Wni? Is it annulled or perhaps revised?

3. is there anyway for ex Wni to have KITAP without becoming WNI (given they are unmarried and sponsored by parents, my case no luck yet in love Dept.)?

4. Is it possible for ex. Wni (adult, unmarried, with both Wni parents) to get c317 KITAS Penyatuan Keluarga?
4a) If yes, which option should I pick? I couldn’t find it when I applied online, bc my VOA been extended several times and almost expired, I picked c318.
4b) If no, what are my options?

Thank you friends! Even if you don’t have the answers, I would like to hear about your experience, even more if you have similar case as I am. Thanks again and hope you all have tons of luck and blessing in applying for visas and working with immigration officers.
Hey Sine,

Here are some of my thoughts:
1. If you are not spouse sponsored, you have two options in general, the 'normal' foreigner way or the express 'ex-wni' way. The normal way is to apply for work-sponsored KITAS for years until you are qualified to apply for KITAP. The express way is the c318 KITAS which you can convert to KITAP practically the next day you get your KITAS.

2-3. From my experience and observations. UU and PP are only valid so long as the local officer adheres to them. This is why sometimes it is useless to argue with them. They tend to resort to what they know rather than what they should know. This is the reason why it is harder to process some of these less common visa categories if you are not in Jakarta and other big cities. They couldn't be bothered to check the actual regulations. Hence, the local 'rule' applies.

I am on repatriation KITAP, and I remembered having the conversation with my agent regarding extending my KITAP the 2nd time when the time comes. He said there is no requirement to force you to apply for Citizenship and they have processed similar case in the past. But then, I am in Jakarta....and I haven't done my second round of KITAP (so don't quote me on this).

4.I thought c317 (penyatuan keluarga) is only for married couple? I might be wrong though.

cheers,
D
 

SamR

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Messages
19
4.I thought c317 (penyatuan keluarga) is only for married couple? I might be wrong though.
Now that you’ve mentioned it, I’ve looked into this in the past (and the information the officer gave checked out). Yes, penyatuan keluarga only applies to spouses. There is an option for an “ex” to be sponsored by WNI parents but there is an upper age limit for it. I can’t recall the upper age limit but you would definitely be over it if you’re over 30.

@Sine, I think the officer that told you to apply for C317 gave you the mistaken info that’s why you couldn’t fine an online form for “Eks-WNI sponsored by WNI Parents”. The officer that told you to apply for C318 is not wrong. Then you have the officer that told you it’s compulsory to apply for WNI has his own interpretation.

Tbh. This is why officers by themselves are not reliable sources of information
 

Sine

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2021
Messages
28
Hey Sine,

Here are some of my thoughts:
1. If you are not spouse sponsored, you have two options in general, the 'normal' foreigner way or the express 'ex-wni' way. The normal way is to apply for work-sponsored KITAS for years until you are qualified to apply for KITAP. The express way is the c318 KITAS which you can convert to KITAP practically the next day you get your KITAS.

2-3. From my experience and observations. UU and PP are only valid so long as the local officer adheres to them. This is why sometimes it is useless to argue with them. They tend to resort to what they know rather than what they should know. This is the reason why it is harder to process some of these less common visa categories if you are not in Jakarta and other big cities. They couldn't be bothered to check the actual regulations. Hence, the local 'rule' applies.

I am on repatriation KITAP, and I remembered having the conversation with my agent regarding extending my KITAP the 2nd time when the time comes. He said there is no requirement to force you to apply for Citizenship and they have processed similar case in the past. But then, I am in Jakarta....and I haven't done my second round of KITAP (so don't quote me on this).

4.I thought c317 (penyatuan keluarga) is only for married couple? I might be wrong though.

cheers,
D
Hi Dannyboy

Sorry for the late reply, I had my phone fixed.

1. That’s my have now, c318. YeahUnfortunately, they won’t process my application for KITAP before at least I renew my KITAS once and renew my passport. I still have more or less 13 months. I just don’t want to argue with them, so I renewed my KITAS and it’s approved. And currently I’m saving little bit before I’m going to renew my passport. One of friends in here also point out the regulation that supports the officer argument, regarding the passport, I don’t know is it because my stubbornness or what, but somehow I think it’s reasonable and I come to accepted it. But, I still think the part of renewing my KITAS once before I’m allowed to apply for KITAP via c318 KITAS is bunch of *********** x 99 (fill it with whatever you can think of) made up local laws that pass on as official national laws. I’m still deciding whether I’m gonna applying for KITAP via c318 or start over with year 0 with new KITAS C317. But your 2-3 answers help me clear some confusion. For sure after I got my passport renew that’s when gonna decide. To honest I’m reluctant to switch over to new KITAS. The process, specifically the whims of the officers bring me anxiety and stress. It’s like my life and my basic right as a human to feel safe living in my own home are based on their moods. When they are happy, they will help me with my basic request (I.e. follows the UU to apply for stay permit the right way, so I will be helped by the officers as long as I abide by it and UU, which as basic human right, my stay permit will be given and approved). But when they are in bad moods, I don’t have to explain what’s going to happen. Given not all officers are (to put lightly) loss their sense of humanity, but lots of them are. I still wonder how they sleep at night when they are toying with people’s lives.

2-3. Hahaha totally agree with you, UU and PP only valid as long as the local officers think so. Agree, I the more argue the more reasons for them to make my life a living hell. Even last week when I’m renewing my KITAS, I was told to just bring permohon, surat jaminan, sponsor ID, and 2 other things. But when I turning in my form, different officer starts to asking for bunch of other things like my original telex from last year, marriage certificate, my birth certificate, and bunch of other things that’s not even written in UU. Perhaps I’m wrong, but my interpretation of the written UU and the info in imigrasi website that those things only asked when I’m applying for new visa and not for renewal. If I don’t have the necessary / required documents how in the hell my KITAS was approved by Dirjen in first place. Truth be told, I almost lash out at that ***hole officer at the front and was shaking from bitting my tongue. So I just went outside for minutes to calm myself before went to talk to the higher ups of the first officer, which nicer and still have their humanity. Fortunately, I only need to turn in some of the docs mentioned, and was told it’s ok if I don’t have them with me. Long live the local rule. No worry, in fact I’m glad that I came across you and all friends here. I know all helps and suggestions are coming from good intentions. Whatever the consequences are, all on me :)

Dannyman! Maan, that’s what I thought too. In the future if/when I decide to bank on KITAP via c318 KITAS, can you share your agent info, and more importantly ask you few pointers, please? Yeah, I couldn’t find it anywhere written in the UU nor Imigrasi website that unlimited KITAP is rarely (special case only) given and it is mandatory for us, c318 people, to applying for Indo citizenship at the end of our 5 year KITAP. This one is the source or my confusion and stress. Perhaps I’m paranoid or even cupu, I’m afraid as this one saying goes, “dealer always wins”. Hence, they will come up with whatever BS reasons and quoting bunch of obscured / even perhaps local rule to back them up and make my life a living hell.

4. That’s what I thought too, and (a lot of time) I could be wrong as well hahaha

Thank you Dman! Thanks for sharing your experience. I cannot thank you and all friends here for sharing your experiences with imigrasi in Indo. It’s been a lot of help and clears my confusion. Cheers man!
 

HappyMan

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
808
Just as regards the "x number of kitas before kitap" issue, I kinda feel like that was an old regulation, too. I could be wrong on this, but if you dig back far enough I think you will find it, at least for the spouse sponsored visas. I say that because I think I remember reading it somewhere other than a forum.

Of course, nobody bothered to retrain the officers on the details of what had been superceded by new regulations, of if they did then old habits die hard. To be more-than-fair, most offices probably only do a few kitap conversations a year, split between however many officers. Yeah, I've been trained to manage my expectations...
 

Sine

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2021
Messages
28
Now that you’ve mentioned it, I’ve looked into this in the past (and the information the officer gave checked out). Yes, penyatuan keluarga only applies to spouses. There is an option for an “ex” to be sponsored by WNI parents but there is an upper age limit for it. I can’t recall the upper age limit but you would definitely be over it if you’re over 30.

@Sine, I think the officer that told you to apply for C317 gave you the mistaken info that’s why you couldn’t fine an online form for “Eks-WNI sponsored by WNI Parents”. The officer that told you to apply for C318 is not wrong. Then you have the officer that told you it’s compulsory to apply for WNI has his own interpretation.

Tbh. This is why officers by themselves are not reliable sources of information
Hi SamR

You are right. It was around late 2019 / early 2020 when I was applying, I couldn’t find any option that fits for my case. Yes, under c317 option I only saw wife sponsor, underage Wni sponsor, and some others that not applied to me. If I recall correctly, the upper limit for it is 18. Hahaha yeah I’m way too old for it.

True, perhaps the officer thought adult ex Wni parents sponsor falls under c317 option. That’s why the officer that told me to apply for c318 couldn’t find any option for me under c317. I know it’s not good for my mental health and not right, since I was told about the “compulsory to be Wni again”, sometimes in a middle of a day while I’m doing something, a random thought pops up and send me into a roller coaster of emotions. However, talking to you and other friends here or reading some old and on going threads here help me closer to make my decision. I’m still undecided but clearer about the pros and cons.

Don’t know if it’s just me, but sometimes do you feel like you know what you want yet at the same time you don’t know what you want? Hahaha or probably I’m just going crazy from overthink and too chicken to pick one.

Aaah man... Yeah agree, I know some of the officers have good intentions, but bc of limited and uninformed knowledge, I ended on a goose chase. I better start find more reliable infos.

Always, thank you man!:)
 

SamR

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Messages
19
I better start find more reliable infos.

Always, thank you man!:)

This is your best bet right now. Look at the agencies available in Manado and ask questions. You're on the right track if they're willing to share information and know something more than "To stay here you need a Kitas".
 

Banana72

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Jul 17, 2016
Messages
638
I am on repatriation KITAP, and I remembered having the conversation with my agent regarding extending my KITAP the 2nd time when the time comes. He said there is no requirement to force you to apply for Citizenship and they have processed similar case in the past. But then, I am in Jakarta....and I haven't done my second round of KITAP (so don't quote me on this).



cheers,
D
Adding to Danny's post....I had to write the 'repatriation' letter of intent to apply for KITAP for the purpose of rejoining my family (sorry it has been 10 years I don't remember the exact wording)...and I had my 1st extension last year and was not asked any questions regarding that. I remember having a conversation (but don't remember with who) if I intend to switch to Indonesian citizenship soon, my answer was not in the near future because I have a small pension (social security) that if i become an Indonesian citizen, I will lose that benefit. I think the person accepted the reason. My point is...they might ask this out of curiosity and/as part of their job, but if you answer politely...especially with a pretty acceptable reason...(not like "Yeah i aint gonna be a citizen of this crazy corrupted country..." you get the idea..), they'll just move on to the next question....one or two might give you shit about being 'un-nationalist' (my agent told me an officer made that remark about me)....but screw 'em...they don't know what goes through your mind when you apply...and they don't live your life..ironically when i tried to have my (Indonesian passport) back when I was still in the US, the officer at the Indonesian consulate advised ME to just forget about it and live in the US instead since i already have a green card at that time. So...whatever thing they say to you just try to take some of them not too seriously. That's my take.
 

Sine

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2021
Messages
28
Just as regards the "x number of kitas before kitap" issue, I kinda feel like that was an old regulation, too. I could be wrong on this, but if you dig back far enough I think you will find it, at least for the spouse sponsored visas. I say that because I think I remember reading it somewhere other than a forum.

Of course, nobody bothered to retrain the officers on the details of what had been superceded by new regulations, of if they did then old habits die hard. To be more-than-fair, most offices probably only do a few kitap conversations a year, split between however many officers. Yeah, I've been trained to manage my expectations...
Hi HappyMan

True, I remember saw two different versions (Not sure if I can called it that, but it’s a 2 different UU, couldn’t recall what they are) regarding ex. Wni KITAP time requirement, one UU says ex Wni can get KITAP whenever once you get your KITAS. The second one is not even mention nothing about the time requireme too, it just got lumped together with KITAS to KITAP conversion of spouse sponsor.

Yeah, it’s so confusing. Plus as you said, nobody bothered to retrain the officers nor perhaps majority of the officers not even wanted to take the course even if they were offered one. I noticed it when I was first try to get my VOA extended, 2 different officers told me 2 completely different things. You are right, most offices, perhaps with the exception of the ones in big cities, only do a few KITAP conversion each year. On top of that, as most people speculate they have less experience with KITAP because they tend to tell people to do bunch of KITAS before allows the conversion.

Hahaha I agree, but I still have difficult time to manage expectation. As much I don’t want to get disappointed, so at the same time I expect nothing or expect everything will go wrong, I also want my KITAS / KITAP / any permit to get approved and the process goes smoothly. Hahaha I’m still learning, but what you are saying is true. Now I tend to expect less. If things goes smoothly I’ll happy, and if not, at least I’ll be less disappointed.

Thank you HappyMan!
 

Sine

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2021
Messages
28
Adding to Danny's post....I had to write the 'repatriation' letter of intent to apply for KITAP for the purpose of rejoining my family (sorry it has been 10 years I don't remember the exact wording)...and I had my 1st extension last year and was not asked any questions regarding that. I remember having a conversation (but don't remember with who) if I intend to switch to Indonesian citizenship soon, my answer was not in the near future because I have a small pension (social security) that if i become an Indonesian citizen, I will lose that benefit. I think the person accepted the reason. My point is...they might ask this out of curiosity and/as part of their job, but if you answer politely...especially with a pretty acceptable reason...(not like "Yeah i aint gonna be a citizen of this crazy corrupted country..." you get the idea..), they'll just move on to the next question....one or two might give you shit about being 'un-nationalist' (my agent told me an officer made that remark about me)....but screw 'em...they don't know what goes through your mind when you apply...and they don't live your life..ironically when i tried to have my (Indonesian passport) back when I was still in the US, the officer at the Indonesian consulate advised ME to just forget about it and live in the US instead since i already have a green card at that time. So...whatever thing they say to you just try to take some of them not too seriously. That's my take.
Hi Banana72

Do you mind I ask if you are on your 1st extension KITAP that converted from c318? Or what kind of KITAS you had? And now you have the unlimited KITAP?

Sorry for the questions, I just want to see if you have similar case as mine. Probably you read the old post but I was told by the officer that in the future if I converted to KITAP with my current KITAS (c318), I have to apply for Indo citizenship by the end of my 5th year KITAP. It’s been my main stressor for the past month, but It’s been better since some friends here been helping
me (Thanks guys!!).

I’m still undecided whether I want to become wni again. The most obvious reason is financial, currently my family nor I have any spare money for the indo citizenship application, I heard it’s more than Rp 50 mills (I could be wrong on the price). I also heard people only get approved after their 3rd or 4th tries (also I can be wrong on this too), and that’s a lot of money throw away.

The second reason is in the future if my kids want to school oversea, it’s easier to get accepted. And God forbids if my parents need some medical help outside of Indo, I can sponsor them.

I’m not denying the possibility of be becoming Wni again. But currently, I’m still undecided. Now I’m hoping for some miracle, who knows in the near future we can have dual citizenship.

Yeah, I really hate those kind of people who always judge us (ex. Wni) as an ‘un-nationalist’. Sometimes I just want tell them off and be done with it. I would like to ask them, how and what can someone do and have in their heart to be considered as nationalist? To me, a true nationalist is not an big A*****e and not an in-humane creature like them who always talk about the improvement of the country or the betterment of mankind, but in their selfish tiny heart only care about themselves and willingly / even gladly to screwed with people lives just for the smallest insignificant personal gain. Also I would like to ask them what have they ever done for other people sincerely without expecting any gain? True just because we are not Wni anymore doesn’t mean we stop becoming an Indo. It ingrain in our DNA, way of life, way of thinking, and even souls. It’s just a fact.

The third reason and the most important one, I consider both countries as my home. I moved out of Indo when I was teenager, I became citizen of my second home when I graduated from school. At first I didn’t have much thought of it, and was kind of regretting it because I lost my indo citizenship the second I have another citizenship, and how immigrant is treated by some people. But slowly and many years, and after so many sad and happy times, it grew in me and I considered it as my home as I love indo as my first home. I consider both countries as my home, and it’s irrational and inhumane to ask me to pick one over the other. It’s like asking me to sacrifice either my mom or dad for the other. No one in their right minds would ask people to do that.

It guess I still have to learn to manage my expectation and adapt with how some officers are (bad ones). I don’t about you or other friends here, don’t you think it sucks and frustrating / perhaps even depressing that your livelihood are decided on the whims of the officers, which most of them (Yes, there are kind hearted and humane officers) don’t give a flying duck and not even a second thought about our struggles and challenges in foreign land, which through our tears and laughters became our second home. They don’t know the anxiety and stress to be interrogated and put on microscope just from asking the basic right to live in your own home. Before I go to immigration office I praying / hoping in my heart that I’ll run into good officers, and even if I run into the bad ones at least they are in good mood.

Thank you Banana72!! I hope that you and all friends here will have easy time with whatever visas needed.
 

SamR

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Messages
19
Adding to Danny's post....I had to write the 'repatriation' letter of intent to apply for KITAP for the purpose of rejoining my family (sorry it has been 10 years I don't remember the exact wording)...and I had my 1st extension last year and was not asked any questions regarding that. I remember having a conversation (but don't remember with who) if I intend to switch to Indonesian citizenship soon, my answer was not in the near future because I have a small pension (social security) that if i become an Indonesian citizen, I will lose that benefit. I think the person accepted the reason. My point is...they might ask this out of curiosity and/as part of their job, but if you answer politely...especially with a pretty acceptable reason...(not like "Yeah i aint gonna be a citizen of this crazy corrupted country..." you get the idea..), they'll just move on to the next question....one or two might give you shit about being 'un-nationalist' (my agent told me an officer made that remark about me)....but screw 'em...they don't know what goes through your mind when you apply...and they don't live your life..ironically when i tried to have my (Indonesian passport) back when I was still in the US, the officer at the Indonesian consulate advised ME to just forget about it and live in the US instead since i already have a green card at that time. So...whatever thing they say to you just try to take some of them not too seriously. That's my take.
I can say I've experienced just two occasions where I've gotten grief for my "ex status". Two Immigration Passport Stampers on different occasions at the airport giving me unfriendly and judging looks after spending quite a bit of time studying the passport picture profile page. With other immigration officers, they come across as being accustomed to seeing "Exes" walking around. If they get a bit kepo, my standard response is "I love living here, if only I don't have these administrative issues" (In Indonesian of course to convey that the only thing not Indonesian are your documents lol) and they're usually quite friendly after that.
 

Banana72

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
638
Hi Banana72

Do you mind I ask if you are on your 1st extension KITAP that converted from c318? Or what kind of KITAS you had? And now you have the unlimited KITAP?

Sorry for the questions, I just want to see if you have similar case as mine. Probably you read the old post but I was told by the officer that in the future if I converted to KITAP with my current KITAS (c318), I have to apply for Indo citizenship by the end of my 5th year KITAP. It’s been my main stressor for the past month, but It’s been better since some friends here been helping
me (Thanks guys!!).
Hi Sine,
I got my KITAP after I converted from my KITAS as a foreign worker. So I was living here with my KITAS for a few years (ex-WNI KITAP wasn't available when I came in 2011). So after multiple KITAS extension I was told by my agent it was getting harder to get 1 year KITAS, unless you're in some kind of specific field/position (this was at least five-six years ago). So I decided to apply for an ex WNI KITAP (by then ex-wni kitap was available). But the way I did it was...I had to apply to a KITAS 'ex-wni' first since my existing KITAS at that time was still as a foreign worker visa...according to my immigration officer you can't just change from foreign worker KITAS to an ex-wni KITAP. Quite ridiculous I had to spend the extra 1.7 million for a KITAS that basically only valid for 1 week (and it took me a month and half to do), then within that one week was converted into a KITAP. Again as I've mentioned...when I was asked about my intention being a citizen, i just said i don't intend to at the moment...again things might've changed though I'm not sure.

and as this is only my 1st extension...it's not unlimited yet. The 2nd one I believe should be. (basically your third KITAP...original, 1st ext, 2nd ext).

Edited: I just re-read a post about an (age) limit(?) of who can be sponsored by a WNI parent...I didn't know about 317 or 318 all i did was when the ex-WNI kitap became available, I just went directly to an immigration officer, asked for a form for a KITAP and told him I'm an ex-WNI...maybe because at that time it was still in the early stage, the officer himself didn't know any different (and he was actually a pretty helpful guy...too bad last year he passed away and there goes my help at the immigration..). There was definitely no mention of age limit and even I got a letter picked up at the Dirjen and the officer showed in the system status: "Eks Warga Negara Indonesia yg disponsori keluarga kandung WNI" again this was over five years ago btw.
 
Last edited:

SamR

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Messages
19
But the way I did it was...I had to apply to a KITAS 'ex-wni' first since my existing KITAS at that time was still as a foreign worker visa...according to my immigration officer you can't just change from foreign worker KITAS to an ex-wni KITAP.
This is correct. You change Kitas types or sponsors and then you convert to Kitap. You do it in two steps instead of one.
 

Sine

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2021
Messages
28
Hi Sine,
I got my KITAP after I converted from my KITAS as a foreign worker. So I was living here with my KITAS for a few years (ex-WNI KITAP wasn't available when I came in 2011). So after multiple KITAS extension I was told by my agent it was getting harder to get 1 year KITAS, unless you're in some kind of specific field/position (this was at least five-six years ago). So I decided to apply for an ex WNI KITAP (by then ex-wni kitap was available). But the way I did it was...I had to apply to a KITAS 'ex-wni' first since my existing KITAS at that time was still as a foreign worker visa...according to my immigration officer you can't just change from foreign worker KITAS to an ex-wni KITAP. Quite ridiculous I had to spend the extra 1.7 million for a KITAS that basically only valid for 1 week (and it took me a month and half to do), then within that one week was converted into a KITAP. Again as I've mentioned...when I was asked about my intention being a citizen, i just said i don't intend to at the moment...again things might've changed though I'm not sure.

and as this is only my 1st extension...it's not unlimited yet. The 2nd one I believe should be. (basically your third KITAP...original, 1st ext, 2nd ext).

Edited: I just re-read a post about an (age) limit(?) of who can be sponsored by a WNI parent...I didn't know about 317 or 318 all i did was when the ex-WNI kitap became available, I just went directly to an immigration officer, asked for a form for a KITAP and told him I'm an ex-WNI...maybe because at that time it was still in the early stage, the officer himself didn't know any different (and he was actually a pretty helpful guy...too bad last year he passed away and there goes my help at the immigration..). There was definitely no mention of age limit and even I got a letter picked up at the Dirjen and the officer showed in the system status: "Eks Warga Negara Indonesia yg disponsori keluarga kandung WNI" again this was over five years ago btw.
Hi Banana72

I envy you, you got your KITAP already. Nice! Now you don’t worry about the annual ‘colonoscopy’ anymore. Maan, I dread the experience of applying for staying permit. Not trying to cheapen your hard earned money, but I think you spent it well. It’s worth every penny. You did the right thing. I’ll work my behinds off to get that amount or even double to just having an inner peace for 5 years, and so on till the unlimited one. Dread the experience of applying for stay permit.

My officer says that after first KITAP (5 years), we could apply for the unlimited one. But as you know my info can be wrong.

Those officers are rare. I hope next time you go there, you will run into your new helpful officer(s). Can you post the link to that post about age limit of ex Wni parents sponsored, please? I guess it just my luck and perhaps I didn’t ask the right question. I should have ask “what is KITAP for exwni and I want to apply for it”. Yes, that’s the thing all the UU or Kemhukumham I saw didn’t categorized the visas with Cxyz KITAS or Cabc KITAS. Most of them just says “Ijin tinggal tetap or Ijin tinggal terbatas”. But again I could missed some of the details. Tbh I always feel anxious and stress when dealing with immigration related things.
 

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