The Uyghur and China discussion thread

Nope. Not to put words in his mouth, but he seems to just want all countries to mind their own business.
You guys are trying to convince us that China = Good and Everyone Who Criticizes China's Human Rights Violations = Tricked by the CIA.

You know that's not true, my message as posted #67 as follows;

I respect the decision of R Cameron to back out. I’m not posting this to challenge him or anyone. I’m not here to expose the dark side of the CIA. Or defend China. I’m here to raise awareness that fake news is circulating about China. And it is making the Chinese people very angry. The USA clearly wants to start a war with China, if more Americans realized they are being fooled by the MSM, hopefully it could defuse a full-scale hot war. We all don’t want WW3 to happen, except the lunatics.
 
Harryopal, why are you offended? I didn't mention your name.

OK then, you only hate the CPC government. This video is for you.

Ohh dear, Dave..... by the logic of the video you so thoughtfully provided I am now a "right winger" who say's he has Chinese friends but actually looks down on them and can't grasp that the Chinese government is comprised of people. (Who just happen to be party members and committed to Communist ideology.) Ironically, I would define my political position as one of being a democratic socialist.

A famous Australian, Catholic anti-Communist B A Santamaria (now deceased) led a powerful group known as "The Movement" and ran a campaign to destroy Communist influence in unions. He regarded me as a Communist although I never had any affiliation and then and now regard myself as socialist. Santamaria would be surprised to see me as lumped with right wingers.

Marxist analysis of the nature of capitalism seems to me to brilliantly outline the fundamental flaws in capitalistic systems. Unfortunately the Marxist Leninist approach to government incorporated ruthless divisions in societies and has invariably seen the application of murderous methods to deal with the enemies of the state. This then is often followed by corrupt elitist groups who engage in enrichment of themselves and colleagues.
 
In case anyone can't be bothered to watch the video, it is basically a guy looking at an estimate of the death-toll in Afghanistan with credulity and then looking at a report about human rights violations against the Uyghur with incredulity.

To be clear, the war in Afghanistan has been horrible. It was/is a shameful period in American history, in my opinion.

Afraid of the truth? The guy is examining a Brown University data of their study.
 
My dear Dave,

This dialogue reminds me of a trip to the dentist when, having had a tooth extracted, you really want to forget about it but your tongue keeps going back to the cavity with a sense of almost compulsive fascination.

It is important that when you find there are no further responses to your posts you should not feel you have won the argument. I suspect others, like myself, are becoming bored with trying to argue with such a steadfast, unshakeable line of support for the CPC and, as your video post asserts, the "people" (all CPC party members) who make up a government that has such a fanatical determination to not only have all Chinese citizens at heel but coerce or bully other governments into accepting the CPC line.

So, thank you for the engagement and goodbye.
 
Did you know that the BBC in the UK (domestic broadcast) is regulated by Ofcom but not the 'BBC World Service'?

BBC World Service is not regulated by Ofcom. Instead the BBC is responsible for setting its overall strategic direction, the budget and guarding its editorial independence for World Service.
You thought we wanted our world news regulated by a government? How much CCP Kool-ade did you drink?

Addit: BTW, the fact that the person who made that video refers to the the BBC as the BSB throughout is kinda strange, if he is going for a western audience. I mean, I was googling for a while there trying to find a western country that calls the BBC that and I didn't find it. Preaching to the CPChoir?
 
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You know that's not true, my message as posted #67 as follows;

I respect the decision of R Cameron to back out. I’m not posting this to challenge him or anyone. I’m not here to expose the dark side of the CIA. Or defend China. I’m here to raise awareness that fake news is circulating about China. And it is making the Chinese people very angry. The USA clearly wants to start a war with China, if more Americans realized they are being fooled by the MSM, hopefully it could defuse a full-scale hot war. We all don’t want WW3 to happen, except the lunatics.
I mean... I didn't accuse you of being consistent or anything. I'm really not at all surprised to see you doing the thing you say you aren't and not doing the thing you say you are. It feels like it would come right out of a "How to Spread Misinformation" handbook. Could you send me a copy if you have a spare?

Addit: I'll need that in English or Indonesian. Never learned to read Chinese.
 
Afraid of the truth? The guy is examining a Brown University data of their study.
I find it very easy to believe that lots of people died in Afghanistan. It has been widely reported in the reputable media. Hence my statement that it is a shameful period in American history.

I didn't support the war, but I was seventeen when it started, not even old enough to vote. The international school I was attending that year (https://www.atlanticcollege.org/) had a bunch of meetings in which we (almost) all resigned to sternly disapprove... When I got back to the States I went to a few protests... but I honestly didn't try very hard to do anything about the horrible war.

It is a sad fact that even in a democracy with a free press the people are not always well or correctly informed. Even when we know the facts, we do not always make the right decisions. We know that most Americans no longer support a war in Afghanistan because the free press has reported on it.

However, I would still choose some mistakes by a free press and some (horrible) mistakes by a freely elected government over the completely opaque system of government that China has. "What did my lovely CCP do? Whatever they said they did! What was the result? Whatever they said it was!" Try to imagine leader-for-life Xi allowing his press to report on his mistakes 10-20 years from now... Not frigging likely.
 
I think, for most forum members, living in the US still looks to be a better option than living in China with its stultifying and Orwellian controls and denial of any fundamental rights where there is any resistance to the will of the CPC.

Perhaps, but cash is a big magnet for those with the interest, and China pays a lot of it to people it wants. Business opportunities are there, especially in tech.
 
Lol. So China was forced to steal territory from its neighbors and begin a campaign of intimidation against them because of the US?
No, but they are using the islands in order to defend sea routes against US carrier fleets. After all, it's the South China sea, and that isn't just off the coast of New York.
 
What with China being such a good and trustworthy neighbor and all, why didn't those countries just let China put up some bases on their land? Might it be because China is also claiming fishing and other rights?
I trust China about as much as I trust the US, but that doesn't mean I believe they are always the aggressors. Yes, they're going too far, and that's probably about fishing and oil, but the US started the game.
 
I can't figure out why you and Dave are carrying water for the CCP, but you have my sympathies. It's a hard job trying to make an authoritarian and aggressive state seem benevolent and misunderstood.
What makes you think I like China or the commie party? Not that they're communists in anything other than name any more.
The greatest problem with a narrow, uninformed mind is its inability to look at things from both sides.

When you look at the big picture, you see a superpower slowly losing its grip on the world, making idiotic, short sighted policy, and digging a bloody great big hole for itself.
Obama started the shift to an aggressive US policy against China, but Trump really buggered up the US with his total idiocy. World leaders realised the US wasn't the be all and end all of everything, and that worked in China's favour.
Of course China is dangerous, but at least they're projecting power and gaining influence with money and building infrastructure rather than guns, bombs, and misery.

China may or may not be 're-educating' Muslims, but the US can't say a lot when you consider their track record of mass murder in Muslim countries.
Look again at Afghanistan and why the US invaded. 911 was pretty much all Saudis, but Afghanistan is next door to Pakistan, thus a good place to launch a strike to secure Paki's nukes if they feel the need, and it's next door to the CIA best hope of destabilising China - yep - that country's Muslim population.
Look at a map.

I gave up on supporting any brand of politics years ago when I realised they're all corrupt, lying bastards, and that's freed me up so I can look at both sides of a debate without bias. It's liberating.
 
I gave up on supporting any brand of politics years ago when I realised they're all corrupt, lying bastards, and that's freed me up so I can look at both sides of a debate without bias. It's liberating
You guys are really doing the old one-two punch. One of you tries to convince us that China is great, the other that everywhere else is just as bad. I've seen that work well on some people. After a few years of it, you can get a guy who spends half an hour ranting about how he only hates the other party because they are corrupt and then accepts his own party's corruption with a simple "the other guys are just as bad." Sure, it works, but you might work on your methods in a general sort of way. I mean, you only joined this forum to post in this one thread, so give up on convincing anyone you are not interested in a particular political agenda.

Back on topic about the Uyghur oppression in China, apparently there is a new musical out about how happy and free the Uyghur people are.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/05/world/asia/china-uyghurs-propaganda-musical.html
 
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This is one video you guys (China haters) will like.


Nope just the politics side. Met some guys from Iran the other weekend and they are the first Iranians I have met. Nice as can be and fun to play fooseball against. As they said, 'screw politics. Love humanity.'* In terms of politics, it is not just China, but other countries which includes the US.

*This is the PG-13 quote as it has been edited due to language. They did use some colorful language.
 
I mean... I didn't accuse you of being consistent or anything. I'm really not at all surprised to see you doing the thing you say you aren't and not doing the thing you say you are. It feels like it would come right out of a "How to Spread Misinformation" handbook. Could you send me a copy if you have a spare?

Addit: I'll need that in English or Indonesian. Never learned to read Chinese.

It's only in English, published by the CIA.
 

Americans Don't Understand The Truth About China​

Many Americans view China in a completely wrong way. They only view it from the eyes of an American. But how does a Chinese person view China? Is China a threat to the USA? Is China going to overtake the US? Cyrus Janssen break down his thoughts on America's foreign policy towards China and reveal the truth about China.

 
Muslim staff at Facebook request that the company stop accepting propaganda style advertising about the Uyghur. Facebook has been regularly removing these ads, not because they have taken a moral stance, but because the purchasers failed to label them as the type of rubbish they are.

 
archpaper.jpg

Chinese Uighur children have been removed from their parents and are being re-educated in these gargantuan “kindergartens” where they’ll learn Chinese traditions, according to multiple reports. (Courtesy VICE News Tonight on HBO)​

The-kindergartens-perimeter-wall.jpg

The kindergarten’s perimeter wall has been fitted with barbed wire. Hanging from the wall is the slogan “Loving your country starts with speaking Mandarin Chinese.”(Bitterwinter)

Hotan.jpg

The Hotan Kindness Kindergarten, like many others, is a high security facility (BBC)

China is putting Uighur children in 'orphanages' even if their parents are alive (independent.co.uk)​


...an AFP examination of more than 1,500 publicly available government documents -- ranging from tenders and budgets to official work reports -- shows the centres are run more like jails than schools.


Thousands of guards equipped with tear gas, Tasers, stun guns and spiked clubs keep tight control over "students" in facilities ringed with razor wire and infrared cameras, according to the documents.
The centres should "teach like a school, be managed like the military, and be defended like a prison", said one document, quoting Xinjiang's party secretary Chen Quanguo.


To build new, better Chinese citizens, another document argued, the centres must first "break their lineage, break their roots, break their connections, and break their origins".
https://www.afp.com/en/inside-chinas-internment-camps-tear-gas-tasers-and-textbooks
 
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View attachment 1767
Chinese Uighur children have been removed from their parents and are being re-educated in these gargantuan “kindergartens” where they’ll learn Chinese traditions, according to multiple reports. (Courtesy VICE News Tonight on HBO)​

View attachment 1768
The kindergarten’s perimeter wall has been fitted with barbed wire. Hanging from the wall is the slogan “Loving your country starts with speaking Mandarin Chinese.”(Bitterwinter)

View attachment 1769
The Hotan Kindness Kindergarten, like many others, is a high security facility (BBC)

China is putting Uighur children in 'orphanages' even if their parents are alive (independent.co.uk)​



https://www.afp.com/en/inside-chinas-internment-camps-tear-gas-tasers-and-textbooks

Pak Tani, you are spreading misinformation. The fake news was DEBUNKED more than 2 months ago.


 

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