Wonders and curiosities

I just read a chapter "Mall adaptation: mass consumption of massage and restaurant food in globalizing Jakarta".

Interesting and interesting conclusion: "While the middle class have adapted themselves to a mall-based life, the elite who helped to start these trends have apparently started to escape from the malls".

This maybe explains, why in almost 3 years living here, I have never been invited for a coffee or lunch by the Indonesians I met in e.g. the gym. They don't have money.

My question "Where does the upper class hang out?"
 
Last edited:
I just read a chapter "Mall adaptation: mass consumption of massage and restaurant food in globalizing Jakarta".

Interesting and interesting conclusion: "While the middle class have adapted themselves to a mall-based life, the elite who helped to start these trends have apparently started to escape from the malls".

My question "Where does the upper class hang out?"

Singapore. Macau. Ashta8
 
This maybe explains, why in almost 3 years living here, I have never been invited for a coffee or lunch by the Indonesians I met in e.g. the gym. They don't have money.

My question "Where does the upper class hang out?"
They have money but they certainly don't spend it on buying lunch for foreigners!
 
They have money but they certainly don't spend it on buying lunch for foreigners!
So, I am not the only one, not being invited for coffee or lunch? Bit strange in the context of 'gengsi', because having lunch with a bule will give status, right?
 
Last edited:
So, I am not the only one, not being invited for coffee or lunch? Bit strange in the context of 'gengsi', because having lunch with a bule will give status, right?

Only if the bule invite and pay "traktir"

Or maybe you are too dull and boring and not useful enough to them. Not even for a coffee

Lol
 
Only if the bule invite and pay "traktir"

Or maybe you are too dull and boring and not useful enough to them. Not even for a coffee

Lol
I am definately boring and they soon figure out I am not useful to them.

Living in Lampung one easily figures out that it is probably the cheapest prices for food in the nation. Compared to Jakarta mall restaurant prices, Lampung's are 20 to 40% lower. More people can afford the branded restaurants. One of the largest is Indonesian flavored menu and is always the busiest. We eat there maybe twice a week. People don't mind saying hello but we are left alone then. Night life is another thing. Sitting at a table with my wife it is not uncommon for a single male or mixed couple to ask if they can sit at our table. My wife quickly ends that request and points out empty tables. A couple nights ago, at an outdoor lounge with live entertainment we were sitting with another bule and his wife. While we were at a larger table, there were 5 or 6 open tables out of 80 to 90 tables total. Twice different couples came up to us and asked if they could sit with us. Actually, one of them didn't even ask and just reached for chairs. Both couples will relieved of their ideas by both of our wives. They can be vicious and don't care who they insult. Western influanced I guess.

They want to sit with us, why. To show they are with bules? Hoping bule buys their drinks? Photo, photo, photo op? Meet a bule one time for a few seconds and you can and will tell everyone this is your friend.

I get invited for coffee but it is always at someone's house. Never out. Sometimes they want to invite themselves to your house.

Gengsi is Image. Watch people as they walk around the larger branded stores. Take ACE for example. All those people and the vast majority will not buy anything. Some will take some photos in front of whatnot. Some will buy something small so they can not only have something they can say was bought at ACE but they will now have a bag showing off the name to be used over again as they walk around. I have personally seen someone pull a branded paper bag from a trash can and put their items into it and then walk away carrying the branded bag for all to see. It's Image. It is what others can see. A branded shopping bag, a small item with a name on it, a picture to show others. Paint the front of your house while the inside is a total disaster. Move up financially and you become prey for the finance companies who do all they can to make credit easily available. Now you can get even nicer branded things to scream, hey, look at me being so successful and of a higher class. Without credit it wouldn't have been possible.

Like the saying goes. You can take the Indonesian out if the kampung but you can't take the kampung out of the Indonesian. Indonesians a visual people. Even when they move up in finances and can afford a house, which is always their desire, the house may look very nice on the outside but it is close to empty inside. Up and down the social financial ladder, it is what they can present visually to give the image they are higher than their actual financial rung.

Is it a big deal? No. Should it be a big deal? No. Everyone does it, everyone knows everyone does it. Easily ignored. While some of it is funny, some of it is sad. None of it will ever change.
 
Even when they move up in finances and can afford a house, which is always their desire, the house may look very nice on the outside but it is close to empty inside.
Would that be true also for a luxery car? In front of their house, but eat every day nasi putih dengan kejap aja?
 
But will they spend money on other Indonesians? I see large groups hanging out together.
From my observations, a boss/owner of a business may take a group to lunch. Many times when it's a group they only order so much and share. College students many times will go to Starbucks and order one drink and share it between 2 or 3 people. That of course us due to lower finances for such things. Seen husbands and wife share one meal in restaurants. Normal for parents to share food with children. I think if one person invites another to a neal out it would be more business related and not so much a social gesture.
 
Like the saying goes. You can take the Indonesian out if the kampung but you can't take the kampung out of the Indonesian. Indonesians a visual people. Even when they move up in finances and can afford a house, which is always their desire, the house may look very nice on the outside but it is close to empty inside. Up and down the social financial ladder, it is what they can present visually to give the image they are higher than their actual financial rung.
This is definitely a kampung mentality. Not so common in Jakarta but in the smaller towns and provinces, definitely. When I go somewhere and all the locals want a photo with a bule, I always tell them it costs 5,000 Rp, unfortunately none of them want to pay the fee, so no photo.
Imagine if the money they spent on useless stuff was spent on something useful like education or learning a skill. It's the same in every country in the world but still it's annoying!
 
I am definately boring and they soon figure out I am not useful to them.

Living in Lampung one easily figures out that it is probably the cheapest prices for food in the nation. Compared to Jakarta mall restaurant prices, Lampung's are 20 to 40% lower. More people can afford the branded restaurants. One of the largest is Indonesian flavored menu and is always the busiest. We eat there maybe twice a week. People don't mind saying hello but we are left alone then. Night life is another thing. Sitting at a table with my wife it is not uncommon for a single male or mixed couple to ask if they can sit at our table. My wife quickly ends that request and points out empty tables. A couple nights ago, at an outdoor lounge with live entertainment we were sitting with another bule and his wife. While we were at a larger table, there were 5 or 6 open tables out of 80 to 90 tables total. Twice different couples came up to us and asked if they could sit with us. Actually, one of them didn't even ask and just reached for chairs. Both couples will relieved of their ideas by both of our wives. They can be vicious and don't care who they insult. Western influanced I guess.

They want to sit with us, why. To show they are with bules? Hoping bule buys their drinks? Photo, photo, photo op? Meet a bule one time for a few seconds and you can and will tell everyone this is your friend.

I get invited for coffee but it is always at someone's house. Never out. Sometimes they want to invite themselves to your house.

Gengsi is Image. Watch people as they walk around the larger branded stores. Take ACE for example. All those people and the vast majority will not buy anything. Some will take some photos in front of whatnot. Some will buy something small so they can not only have something they can say was bought at ACE but they will now have a bag showing off the name to be used over again as they walk around. I have personally seen someone pull a branded paper bag from a trash can and put their items into it and then walk away carrying the branded bag for all to see. It's Image. It is what others can see. A branded shopping bag, a small item with a name on it, a picture to show others. Paint the front of your house while the inside is a total disaster. Move up financially and you become prey for the finance companies who do all they can to make credit easily available. Now you can get even nicer branded things to scream, hey, look at me being so successful and of a higher class. Without credit it wouldn't have been possible.

Like the saying goes. You can take the Indonesian out if the kampung but you can't take the kampung out of the Indonesian. Indonesians a visual people. Even when they move up in finances and can afford a house, which is always their desire, the house may look very nice on the outside but it is close to empty inside. Up and down the social financial ladder, it is what they can present visually to give the image they are higher than their actual financial rung.

Is it a big deal? No. Should it be a big deal? No. Everyone does it, everyone knows everyone does it. Easily ignored. While some of it is funny, some of it is sad. None of it will ever change.
You can buy the branded shopping bags on Tokopedia- I saw the M&S paper bags for sale for 35,000 idr. :D
 
You can buy the branded shopping bags on Tokopedia- I saw the M&S paper bags for sale for 35,000 idr. :D
Indeed. At least where I live tons of stores who sell fake Gucci (and other brands) bags are still even located in malls.
 
This is definitely a kampung mentality. Not so common in Jakarta but in the smaller towns and provinces, definitely. When I go somewhere and all the locals want a photo with a bule, I always tell them it costs 5,000 Rp, unfortunately none of them want to pay the fee, so no photo.
Imagine if the money they spent on useless stuff was spent on something useful like education or learning a skill. It's the same in every country in the world but still it's annoying!
I live on top of a mall and observe some people, I know from the gym, here rent an apartment and have a luxery car, but order makanan online or even eat in the 'kantin'. I never saw these people eat in the restaurants in the mall. None of them ever asked me for a coffee or let alone a lunch. Maybe I am too "ganteng" to sit beside me 🤣
 
Last edited:
I just read a chapter "Mall adaptation: mass consumption of massage and restaurant food in globalizing Jakarta".

Interesting and interesting conclusion: "While the middle class have adapted themselves to a mall-based life, the elite who helped to start these trends have apparently started to escape from the malls".

This maybe explains, why in almost 3 years living here, I have never been invited for a coffee or lunch by the Indonesians I met in e.g. the gym. They don't have money.

My question "Where does the upper class hang out?"
My experience....if they invite you there's gotta be some kind of purpose...usually the first one is business. Unless you're super fun, super cool to be with and great to be seen, etc usually Indonesians (Jakartans) already have their smaller groups to do stuff with. Some join the bigger groups like Internations, expat/indo meet up groups...I've tried them but they're mostly young milenials and older gen Zs...and as the group usually meets up in a club-y type venue, it's pretty much just very superficial...and chit chat now, gone in five minutes move on to the next person.

Right as the pandemic was ending I braved myself pretty much reached out to a few people (back in early 2021) through expat facebook group to form a small wine club. Had to go through lots of jerks from guys joining just to find women, joining just to free load...one actually left the next day to the US after one of our dinner events after promising she'd transfer her portion...etc. As of now, it has boiled down to the small group of four-five expats that I can comfortably say moved up a bit to good acquaintances/wine friends meeting maybe every other month when our schedule permits. Used to be more frequent, but I don't put as much effort dragging myself all the way to the South and come back at 11-12 after a couple glasses of wine. When you don't go out of your way to accommodate people you'll quickly see who really stay and who don't.

I got a few years head start than you..been here for 12 years, but still struggling to really find my spot in the way Indonesians (read Jakartans) form relationships, whether that's business or non-business (friends etc). Once you get into age also it's tricky...the Gen-X are normally married and only hang out with married ones. The ones with money naturally prefer friends from the same level (so they can comfortably pick the high cost places to hang out). Even in the wine community (and I've joined a couple) you have the 'burgundy exclusive/expensive bottles only group (which I don't belong to)... or Bordeaux group, etc or the ones that drink wines only 90 points+ and then you have the 'I'll drink anything as long as it's over 5% ABV" group. Trying to find people that fit in the middle is just crazy difficult and then you have your geography...cool person, cool conversation, similar spending, like wine...but live pretty far away. All around tricky!

But yeah to answer your question.....typical Indos won't really approach you at the gym and invite for coffee (unless they're a bule hunter or by some extreme coincidence, you had a conversation and clicked immediately)
 
But will they spend money on other Indonesians? I see large groups hanging out together.
Current generations are more used to share the bill. Occasionally for smaller parties (like simple dinner, coffee) one person might pay for all, or pay for bigger portion, etc.
 
But yeah to answer your question.....typical Indos won't really approach you at the gym and invite for coffee (unless they're a bule hunter or by some extreme coincidence, you had a conversation and clicked immediately)
I met some people in the gym and even went golfing with them, but it doesn't continue. I don't know why, maybe lack of time? The only one person that still frequently go golfing with me is an expat from Turkey ... and he insist paying for it and lunch. But he will have a child soon, so I am afraid that does not last.

So, yeah it will be difficult to make friends then, here in Indonesia. I thought it would be much easier.
 
Some join the bigger groups like Internations, expat/indo meet up groups...I've tried them but they're mostly young milenials and older gen Zs...and as the group usually meets up in a club-y type venue,
I was planning to attend one of their social networking meeting (Social EXpat). I am waiting for one with a Latin dance workshop.
 
But remember the number of bule here is minimal
The ones with families don't go out
The single brondong ones chase ayam and go to Basque and Cali
Some even fly in from SG
But Bali is where they go now to party hence why Bali is so busy and now 3x the price of Jakarta
Very rare to even see another bule these days that lives here
 

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Follow Us

Latest Expat Indo Articles

Latest Tweets by Expat Indo

Latest Activity

New posts Latest threads

Online Now

Newest Members

Forum Statistics

Threads
6,760
Messages
114,045
Members
4,051
Latest member
Taisiia
Back
Top Bottom