Vaccine effectiveness and Herd Immunity

[Nimbus]

I guess it's good news for the vaccine manufacturers. They get to sell a new product every year or 6 months for a massive profit.

A $30 vaccine is not mass profit, a $10,000 drug for a rare medicine is. There is a reason very few pharmaceutical companies are researching new antibiotics, despite growing bacterial immunity to the drugs. Potential use is in the billions, but the profit is small.

If you miss your yearly or 6 month "booster" (which seems more likely) do you become an anti vaxxer?

Do you become anti Christian the first time you skip church?

An anti vaxxer is a guy who doesn’t believe in vaccines and refuses to take them on that ground. Worse, he gets on social media and propagate dubious and often patently false news to discourage people from taking vaccines.

I often miss my flu shot, not because I don’t believe in their effectiveness, but because I’m lazy. The common flu kills tens of thousands of people in USA each year, but I’ve had them for many years and I’m still ok. When my health declines I’ll be more dilligent in taking them. Covid is at least 10 times deadlier than the flu, in USA it’s about 20 times deadlier. I will make time for it.

 

[Balifrog]

A $30 vaccine is not mass profit, a $10,000 drug for a rare medicine is. There is a reason very few pharmaceutical companies are researching new antibiotics, despite growing bacterial immunity to the drugs. Potential use is in the billions, but the profit is small.

What a load of bollocks .....

Have a look at the stock price of Big Pharma firms since 18 months

From Pfizer to Moderna: who's making billions from Covid-19 vaccines?

The companies in line for the biggest windfalls – and the shareholders who have already made fortunes

www.google.com

Here’s what Covid vaccines are worth to Big Pharma | CNN Business

The various Covid-19 vaccines currently being distributed around the globe have the potential to end the worst pandemic in a century. They also will mean hundreds of billions dollars in sales for the pharmaceutical companies that make them.

amp.cnn.com

How The Covid-19 Vaccine Injected Billions Into Big Pharma—And Made Its Executives Very Rich

In an exclusive excerpt from Nina Burleigh's 'Virus,' an inside account of how executives at Pfizer, Moderna and other pharma companies profited from Operation Warp Speed.

www.forbes.com

Same goes for those manufacturing Covid tests.

 

[scouser59]

What a load of bollocks .....

Have a look at the stock price of Big Pharma firms since 18 months

From Pfizer to Moderna: who's making billions from Covid-19 vaccines?

The companies in line for the biggest windfalls – and the shareholders who have already made fortunes

www.google.com

Here’s what Covid vaccines are worth to Big Pharma | CNN Business

The various Covid-19 vaccines currently being distributed around the globe have the potential to end the worst pandemic in a century. They also will mean hundreds of billions dollars in sales for the pharmaceutical companies that make them.

amp.cnn.com

How The Covid-19 Vaccine Injected Billions Into Big Pharma—And Made Its Executives Very Rich

In an exclusive excerpt from Nina Burleigh's 'Virus,' an inside account of how executives at Pfizer, Moderna and other pharma companies profited from Operation Warp Speed.

www.forbes.com

Same goes for those manufacturing Covid tests.

I agree pfizer and moderna are making a killing ,but astra zeneca and johnson and johnson are still not for profit while the pandemic lasts .

 

[Hawk256]

A $30 vaccine is not mass profit, a $10,000 drug for a rare medicine is. There is a reason very few pharmaceutical companies are researching new antibiotics, despite growing bacterial immunity to the drugs. Potential use is in the billions, but the profit is small.

I think the evidence already provided about profits for the vaccine manufacturers speaks for itself. Even simple math tells you that $60 (for the 2 doses recommend for all but Johnson and Johnson) X even a few percent of the total earth population is a huge number. Get to 70% and the number is astronomical.

As far as antibiotics, it's a little more complicated than you let on. Initial profit is one of the issues but there are other issues including the fact that antibiotics have been overused for years and most health providers are starting to cut back on when they use them. Antibiotic resistant strains are becoming a major problem further decreasing the usefulness of new antibiotics. The future is no longer in antibiotics. More research is taking place in bacteriophages and other alternatives.

Alternatives to Antibiotics: Why and How - National Academy of Medicine

The antibiotic resistance problem is caused by the evolution and transfer of genes that confer resistance to medically important antibiotics into human pathogens. The acquisition of such resistance genes […]

nam.edu

 

[Balifrog]

As far as antibiotics, it's a little more complicated than you let on. Initial profit is one of the issues but there are other issues including the fact that antibiotics have been overused for years and most health providers are starting to cut back on when they use them. Antibiotic resistant strains are becoming a major problem further decreasing the usefulness of new antibiotics. The future is no longer in antibiotics.

Spot on ! The consequences of overuse of antibiotics (magic pills that cured everything) have led to stronger and more resistant strains. And this since at least 10 years.
And guess who pushed for the (over)use of antibiotics ?

BTW : Another "new" variant, the Columbian one, has appeared in the US, UK, Belgium. Expect this to be the next media drama in September.....

 

[ChrisTex]

A $30 vaccine is not mass profit, a $10,000 drug for a rare medicine is. There is a reason very few pharmaceutical companies are researching new antibiotics, despite growing bacterial immunity to the drugs. Potential use is in the billions, but the profit is small.

Two years ago when I was getting a second opinion after an emergency medical procedure, the new doctor was saying there hasn't been any new antibiotics created since the 90s.

 

[HappyMan]

Two years ago when I was getting a second opinion after an emergency medical procedure, the new doctor was saying there hasn't been any new antibiotics created since the 90s.

The difficulty of discovering new antibiotics is both an excuse and cause for the high prices. If a new antibiotic were discovered tomorrow, there would be immediate calls from medical authorities to strictly control severely limit its use. The intention would be to slow the rate of adaptation in common diseases. The result (if the limits were effective), would be that the drugs would not be disseminated en masse, ensuring higher prices.

I was surprised to see this post from a Harvard graduate group mention the discovery of four new classes of antibiotics since 2000. And, less surprised to learn that bacteria resistant to each of them have already been isolated.

I remember my father getting some severe infection and spending over a hundred dollars on a (something I don't remember) pack to get rid of it. Even the packaging (a branded box containing a strip of individually sealed pills) was nothing like the Amoxicillin you would normally get in a brown pill bottle. The nurse or perhaps doctor told him they were going to "nuke the infection". It was effective, but the part that has stuck with me was the reverence with which they held the medicine and the number of times that they explained to a sober, middle-aged, man that he must be sure to take all the pills lest the bacteria become resistant (more than five).

 

[HappyMan]

As far as antibiotics, it's a little more complicated than you let on. Initial profit is one of the issues but there are other issues including the fact that antibiotics have been overused for years and most health providers are starting to cut back on when they use them. Antibiotic resistant strains are becoming a major problem further decreasing the usefulness of new antibiotics. The future is no longer in antibiotics. More research is taking place in bacteriophages and other alternatives.

Alternatives to Antibiotics: Why and How - National Academy of Medicine

The antibiotic resistance problem is caused by the evolution and transfer of genes that confer resistance to medically important antibiotics into human pathogens. The acquisition of such resistance genes […]

nam.edu

I'm pretty sure that depends on how you define "new antibiotics". If you mean new versions of existing antibiotics, yeah. If you mean new classes of antibiotics that were recently discovered, then a resistance to previous classes of antibiotics should be irrelevant.

One analogy is to a series of different types of locks. Once a bacteria has developed a set of picks for a type of lock, simply changing the key cutting for that lock provides little additional resistance. Changing the lock type completely however (as different classes of antibiotics use completely different methods of attacking bacteria), renders the old lock picks ineffectual. The bacteria go back to square one, like a man who brought a rake and tension wrench to crack a combination safe.

 

[Hawk256]

One analogy is to a series of different types of locks. Once a bacteria has developed a set of picks for a type of lock, simply changing the key cutting for that lock provides little additional resistance. Changing the lock type completely however (as different classes of antibiotics use completely different methods of attacking bacteria), renders the old lock picks ineffectual. The bacteria go back to square one, like a man who brought a rake and tension wrench to crack a combination safe.

I like the lock analogy and agree for the most part. However, the point of getting away from antibiotics would be more akin to changing away from a mechanical lock. All locks with keys or combinations (antibiotics or new antibiotics) are still mechanical and over time will be defeated. Bacteriophages or alternative would be like bringing in an electromagnetic or some other kind of lock. Yes, maybe it can be defeated but not by using the same basic methods.

 

[Balifrog]

An interesting, rather sober and objective read. Nice change from the usual media dramatization.

Alarmist reporting hides Covid vaccine success - Asia Times

SEOUL - While many parts of the world remain under-vaccinated, multiple high-income countries – including those which suffered some of the most

asiatimes.com

 

[dafluff]

Moderation note: A number of posts that were tangent to the thread have been moved to it's own thread here:

A very interesting docu from D.W. on viruses and lab research.

A very interesting docu from D.W. on viruses and lab research. D.W. is one of the best for documentaries, objective and with calm, clear narrative. A nice change from some with loud hyper excited "journos" comments.

www.expatindo.org

 

[Balifrog]

Interesting read, confirming the actual existing vaccines are not the miracle solution.

Science | AAAS

www.science.org

Conclusion : "Aran’s message for the United States and other wealthier nations considering boosters is stark: “Do not think that the boosters are the solution.”

 

[Hawk256]

Israel has settled on 6 month boosters. I expect that is what other countries are likely to adopt as well.

Israel's vaccine pass will expire 6 months after the 2nd dose, meaning people will need booster shots to keep going to restaurants and bars

The news comes as Israel extended the eligibility of boosters to all those over the age of 12. About 1.9 million have received a third dose.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Balifrog]

Israel has settled on 6 month boosters. I expect that is what other countries are likely to adopt as well.

Israel's vaccine pass will expire 6 months after the 2nd dose, meaning people will need booster shots to keep going to restaurants and bars

The news comes as Israel extended the eligibility of boosters to all those over the age of 12. About 1.9 million have received a third dose.

www.yahoo.com

Keypoint being :

• A booster shot received within five months of the second dose extends the pass' validity by six months.

Which is admitting the vaccine validity is only 6 months.....

 

[Balifrog]

A bit of news from the Covid battle front :

- An oral medicine being studied / tested. Following the usual protocol, so it will take time :

Oral trials

Oral drugs that combat COVID-19 are garnering interest from drugmakers and countries alike, as the coronavirus battle moves beyond jabs and syringes. Pfizer and Merck have both announced the start of trials to test oral antiviral medications that target the disease. The race to develop an easy-to-administer treatment comes amid growing interest in the market for coronavirus therapeutics as the threat of COVID-19 sticks around for the foreseeable future.

Pfizer's latest mid-to-late-stage trial will enroll 1,140 non-hospitalized adults diagnosed with coronavirus infection who are not at risk of severe illness. They'll be given Pfizer's pill, known as PF-07321332, as well as a low dose of ritonavir, which is widely used in combination with HIV treatments. Merck's trial will study the experimental drug molnupiravir for the prevention of COVID-19 among adults who live in the same household as a person with a symptomatic coronavirus infection.

Over in Israel: The country announced in July that it would be the first in the world to test an oral COVID-19 vaccine developed by Oramed Pharmaceuticals . The first trial will involve 24 unvaccinated volunteers, each taking one or two pills, before moving on to larger Phase 3 trials if successful. The vaccine should be "much more resistant to COVID-19 variants," according to Oramed CEO Nadav Kidron, since it trains the immune system against three viral proteins instead of the single protein targeted by Pfizer and Moderna's shots.


- And as expected a new variant is spreading. No problem, still plenty letters available in the Greek alphabet :

Elsewhere: The World Health Organization is monitoring a new coronavirus variant named "mu," which, according to the agency, has the potential to escape the immunity gained from COVID-19 vaccines or natural infection. On August 30, WHO has added the "mu" variant, also known as B.1.621 among scientists, to the global agency’s list of variants "of interest." The strain was first identified in Colombia, but has since been detected in at least 39 countries.

 

[Balifrog]

Well, well, well... a vaccine for vegans now ?

Plant jab set for clinical trials

The plant-based Covid-19 vaccine, known as "Baiya Vaccine", is set to start the first phase of clinical trials this month, according to researchers.

www.bangkokpost.com

 

[Balifrog]

An interesting read on re-infection.

Can You Get COVID-19 Twice?

Despite what you’ve heard, it’s possible to get infected with COVID-19 more than once. Learn why from an infectious disease specialist.

health.clevelandclinic.org

 

[Dave70]

4th dose coming up for Israel?

Kim Iversen narrates "Israel's Alarming Data" (uploaded today).

 

[gemima]

4th dose coming up for Israel?

Kim Iversen narrates "Israel's Alarming Data" (uploaded today).

There is an awful lot of alarmist crap about booster shots (and Biden hasn't helped announcing them for the US before the FDA has even decided they are necessary).
I recommend you read this quick summary (published this week) - no clickbait - no drama: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02046-8/fulltext

To be honest, most scientists still think boosters are not necessary - probably only for those with weak immune systems (e.g. older people and those with immune disorders).

 

[Balifrog]

Moderation note:
This post was moved here from another thread because the topic of this thread is better suited for the post.
End Moderation note.

You are a selfish arsehole. If you dont want to get vaccinated then so be it but dont break the rules to go to places which have rules on vaccinated only. People like you are the reason why the world will take much longer to recover.

Technically, scientifically you are completely wrong, I hope you know that ?
Having the vaccine just protects YOU from becoming critically ill if you catch the virus. Well in most cases.... if you are old, overweight and diabetic you still stand a good chance to end up in bed.
But you can still be a positive, asymptomatic carrier and infect others.

So the whole application, QR thing is mainly B.S.

And B.S. at my age tends to get on my nerves.

Secundo : What is very worrying is that brainwashed people like you, feel entitled to call "assholes" any people who thinks different from you.
And honestly, that is the real disaster !
What makes you think you are superior, and blessed with the holly truth ?