A very interesting docu from D.W. on viruses and lab research.

Balifrog

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A very interesting docu from D.W. on viruses and lab research.


D.W. is one of the best for documentaries, objective and with calm, clear narrative. A nice change from some with loud hyper excited "journos" comments.
 

harryopal

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The German documentary shows what unquestionably fascinating stuff this is for scientists and no doubt with impeccable aspirations to benefit humankind. On the other hand we can be sure that any research of this kind has defence scientists keeping an eye out for possible biological warfare potential.

WW11 the Japanese had a biological laboratory in Harbin called the Epidemic Prevention and Water Purification Department. It's purpose was in fact to develop a biological warfare capability and to that end upwards of 500,000 prisoners were used as guinea pigs. These were mostly Chinese but American prisoners of war were also subjected to horrific experiments. Emperor Hirohito had a fascination with biology and was instrumental in developing the gruesome work of the facility.

Plague, typhoid and paratyphoid germs were spread across many Chinese cities and the scientist were thrilled to find that the spreading of paratyphoid germs was particularly effective. An attack on California was planned but nipped in the bud by the dropping of the Atomic bombs.

At wars end the Harbin scientist were given immunity by America from prosecution of war crimes in exchange for the data collected at Harbin.

In 1948 a Biological veterinary laboratory was created at Harbin by the Chinese government. I find it hard to imagine that the diabolical potential of germ warfare research would have been disregarded by the Chinese government. And Harbin for the Vet biological laboratory? Coincidence?

All things considered it is hardly just paranoia that gives currency to the notion that Covid 19 may have escaped from an experimental laboratory in Wuhan. In the absence of evidence I am not asserting that this in fact what happened. We are still waiting for the Intelligence reports back to Biden on this matter.

Whatever, we humans certainly like playing with fire.
 

Hawk256

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Balifrog

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WW11 the Japanese had a biological laboratory in Harbin called the Epidemic Prevention and Water Purification Department. It's purpose was in fact to develop a biological warfare capability and to that end upwards of 500,000 prisoners were used as guinea pigs. These were mostly Chinese but American prisoners of war were also subjected to horrific experiments. Emperor Hirohito had a fascination with biology and was instrumental in developing the gruesome work of the facility.
USA in it's early plans to invade Japan intended to massively use chemical weapons on civilian population.

Fast forward to 37:00 in this documentary.
On the other hand, using gas or using nuclear weapon against civilians, can't see a difference on a moral point of view.


Gasses were used massively in WW1 already.
 

Dave70

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All things considered it is hardly just paranoia that gives currency to the notion that Covid 19 may have escaped from an experimental laboratory in Wuhan. In the absence of evidence I am not asserting that this in fact what happened. We are still waiting for the Intelligence reports back to Biden on this matter.

Or may have escaped from the Fort Detrick US Army Laboratory in Maryland, USA.

 

harryopal

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Wiping out one hundred thousand people or thereabouts with one bomb and then followed by agonizing pain for radiation burn victims does not leave the user of atomic weapons in a vastly superior moral position. Not to mention the thousands of Pacific Islanders who suffered from fall out with nuclear testing. But that said, the grisly detail of the Harbin victims was the up close and personal methods of inflicting tortuous pain and evidence of experiments being conducted for amusement leaves a nasty, lingering sense of revulsion.

I say these things to remind us of how easily people can shred their humanity and especially so when leadership promotes terror for strategic purposes as happened with Japan seeing the atrocities of Nanking as a management strategy to more quickly subdue conquered people.

One only needs to read the daily newspapers to see how murderous and cruel ordinary people can behave quite spontaneously let alone when encouraged by orders during times of conflict. And then there were those weapon developers who went home in the evening to their families having come up with a great idea, as used in Vietnam, of bombs which scattered tinsel wrapped pellets to blow up in the hands of curious children or others.

We really are a peculiar species. Let's hope we do develop herd immunity before the stress of lockdowns and economic instability lead to more riots and violence.
 
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HappyMan

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Or may have escaped from the Fort Detrick US Army Laboratory in Maryland, USA.

Wow, that is a really crappy article. No source materials listed, no mention of the obvious conflicts of interest among the sources (these conflicts actually seemed to be touted as evidence of the veracity of the sources...), and references to things "widely reported in the media" which I have never heard reported in the media... Just pure rubbish.
 

Hawk256

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Dave70

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Wow, that is a really crappy article. No source materials listed, no mention of the obvious conflicts of interest among the sources (these conflicts actually seemed to be touted as evidence of the veracity of the sources...), and references to things "widely reported in the media" which I have never heard reported in the media... Just pure rubbish.

The author of the article is a professor of Political Science, International Relations, Development Studies, European Studies, SEA and China Studies. She has worked with the Asian Development Bank (ADB) and other local and international NGOs as a consultant. She is President of Techperformance Corp, an IT-based company in the Philippines.

In the article, she presents her basis of argument of why it is necessary to investigate Fort Detrick. The article makes sense to me because I have had read various reports (about things she mentioned) in the mainstream media. Why should she be listing source materials when it has been “widely reported in the media”? But there will always be people like you who never heard about it. However, to be fair, many MSM articles were removed later, including articles about US Army athletes taken ill during the Wuhan World Military Games. Anyway, since you asked about references, below are links to some still existing MSM articles which she could have used as circumstantial evidence for her piece.

June 30, 2019 – First case of “respiratory illness”, followed by an outbreak in Virginia. The Fairfax County Department of Health said that 54 individuals had become ill with "respiratory symptoms ranging from upper respiratory symptoms (cough) to pneumonia" in the last 11 days at Greenspring Retirement Community in Springfield.

Source: https://abcnews.go.com/US/respirato...community-54-residents-fall/story?id=64275865

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-m...ak-greenspring-village-fairfax-officials-say/

August 5, 2019 – The New York Times reported the shutting down of the US Army Lab in Fort Detrick, Maryland due to safety concerns. The biodefence center had problems with decontamination of wastewater as well as leaks within the lab.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/health/germs-fort-detrick-biohazard.html

March 11, 2020 – CDC Director Robert Redfield admitted that some of the flu deaths may be coronavirus-related.

Source: https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-...0-intl-hnk/h_1319f66f92245a2fe4ec63fe91ab66c9

March 12, 2020 – The US starts to restrict information on the coronavirus.

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ronavirus-deliberations-sources-idUSKBN20Y2LM

April 17, 2020 – There are 3 types of SARS-CoV-2 virus, C came after B, and B came after A. In other words, there cannot be C without B, and there cannot be B without A. Interestingly, most of the cases in the USA is A while most of the cases in China is B.

Source: https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-outbreak-september-not-wuhan-1498566

Bonus article: Inside America’s secretive biolabs https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/05/28/biolabs-pathogens-location-incidents/26587505/

Coincidence? You tell me, should Fort Detrick be investigated or not?
 

HappyMan

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ABC News article -mentions how common respiratory infections are in nursing homes. Does not go on to mention quarantine being imposed or an outbreak throughout Fairfax County... The disease is perhaps in on the conspiracy, and was ordered to cease infecting people until after a major outbreak could be staged in Wuhan? Perhaps you could interview the virus?

CNN Article- It is not a revelation that the US did not originally have testing methods for the disease or that cases were originally misdiagnosed around the world.

Rueters- If you are going to take imposing secrecy as evidence of wrongdoing, you need to go back to the Uyghur thread and start writing.

Newsweek- I get that they labeled it as A, B, C and you want to turn that into something... The article does not do that. The article mentions that the first known cases were in China, and that type A cases were found there.

So, you think that the disease escaped from a US lab... and then mostly hung out and chilled in the US for a few months while simultaneously making world news for shutting down a Chinese city... and then decided it would be infectious in America too (without mutating, still A), because it had established it's cover?

I don't mind if they investigate all the damned labs. Until there is some definitive evidence, this is will remain a non-issue, mostly important to people who want to push some other agenda (like China pretending the world is mean to it and Republican Lawmakers looking for a scapegoat for their president's inadequate response).

The original article you posted remains inadequate and the listed resume of the writer only serves to reinforce the notion that she is competent enough to directly reference her sources, if she had any worth referencing.
 
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Dave70

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Newsweek- I get that they labeled it as A, B, C and you want to turn that into something... The article does not do that. The article mentions that the first known cases were in China, and that type A cases were found there.

The Newsweek article stated “However, A was not the virus type found in most cases in Wuhan, the city in China where COVID-19 was first identified. Instead, most people there had type B. Researchers suggest there was a "founder event" for type B in Wuhan. Type C, the "daughter" of type B, is what was identified in early cases in Europe, as well as South Korea, Singapore and Hong Kong—but appears absent from mainland China.”.

Their research is published at PNAS > https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/early/2020/04/07/2004999117.full.pdf

It concluded that it started in either Europe or US, then spread to China, then spread again to Europe and US. They wrote:

In a phylogenetic network analysis of 160 complete human severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-Cov-2) genomes, we find three central variants distinguished by amino acid changes, which we have named A, B, and C, with A being the ancestral type according to the bat outgroup coronavirus. The A and C types are found in significant proportions outside East Asia, that is, in Europeans and Americans. In contrast, the B type is the most common type in East Asia.


So, you think that the disease escaped from a US lab... and then mostly hung out and chilled in the US for a few months while simultaneously making world news for shutting down a Chinese city... and then decided it would be infectious in America too (without mutating, still A), because it had established it's cover?

After the outbreak in Virginia, this is what happened >

1. From October 1, 2019 through February 1, 2020, the CDC has estimated (based on weekly influenza surveillance data) that at least 12,000 people have died from influenza, and the number of deaths may be as high as 30,000.

Source: https://www.health.com/condition/flu/how-many-people-die-of-the-flu-every-year

2. Vaping Lung Illness which only affected e-cigarette users in the USA (not in Europe or elsewhere). The number of “unidentified” respiratory death between June to Aug 2019 is more than 200. CDC banned e-cigarettes and blame it as the cause of the mysterious death.

Source: https://www.statnews.com/2019/09/06/vaping-cases-rising-dont-know-cause/

Vaping companies are filling lawsuit against the US government for banning the product without concrete evidence.

Source: https://www.statnews.com/2019/08/14/vaping-companies-sue-to-delay-e-cigarette-review/

The CDC has never released the report about those mysterious death. If you look at the X-ray of the e-cigarettes related death, the syndrome is exactly the same as coronavirus infected death. Why e-cigarette users in Europe didn’t get sick, and why those getting sick in the USA happened simultaneously, remains a mystery too.

I wish to add that, according to Israel, US intelligence agencies alerted them to the coronavirus outbreak in China on November 2019, at a time when China was not even aware of its existence. Could the five sick US Army athletes be the reason the US knew?

Source: https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-al...disease-outbreak-in-china-in-november-report/

On March 2020, China urged the US to release health info of military athletes who came to Wuhan during October 2019.

Source: https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1183658.shtml

The USA held pandemic exercises in August 2019 (Crimson Contagion). The simulation predicted exactly this pandemic before it even happened.

Later in October 2019, the USA organized ‘Event 201’, a global pandemic exercise, with the participation of the Deputy Director of the CIA. Obviously, the US was anticipating a pandemic.
 

HappyMan

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The Newsweek article stated “However, A was not the virus type found in most cases in Wuhan, the city in China where COVID-19 was first identified. Instead, most people there had type B. Researchers suggest there was a "founder event" for type B in Wuhan. Type C, the "daughter" of type B, is what was identified in early cases in Europe, as well as South Korea, Singapore and Hong Kong—but appears absent from mainland China.”.
You seem to have missed this bit of the article:
He said it is possible the outbreak did not originate in Wuhan, as until January 17, almost all the isolates were type B. In Guangdong, a province about 500 miles from Wuhan, seven of the 11 isolates were type A. "These case numbers are small because few genomes are available for the early stage of the outbreak, before the Chinese New Year travel pre-January 25 would have started mixing patterns up geographically," Forster said.

Type A, in China, at the start of the outbreak... I don't know anything about this other than what the article says... really not that interested, either. But, it doesn't draw the conclusions you want it to. If it started in China, will any reasonable person think it matters? Same for America. If you think that government laboratories should not be researching viruses, anywhere, then that is a different conversation than the one you have started.

I refuse to continue to indulge your conspiracy theories on this topic. Good day.
 

Dave70

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I refuse to continue to indulge your conspiracy theories on this topic. Good day.

No conspiracy theory, all I’m saying is there are valid grounds based on “coincidences” reported by the mainstream media for Fort Detrick to be investigated too. Anyway, thanks for your engagement.
 

dafluff

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2. Vaping Lung Illness which only affected e-cigarette users in the USA (not in Europe or elsewhere). The number of “unidentified” respiratory death between June to Aug 2019 is more than 200. CDC banned e-cigarettes and blame it as the cause of the mysterious death.

Source: https://www.statnews.com/2019/09/06/vaping-cases-rising-dont-know-cause/

Vaping companies are filling lawsuit against the US government for banning the product without concrete evidence.

Source: https://www.statnews.com/2019/08/14/vaping-companies-sue-to-delay-e-cigarette-review/

Except Vaping lung disease is not contagious and affects mostly young males who vape. So completely different from Covid. Your tinfoil hat antics are getting tiresome.
 

Balifrog

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Except Vaping lung disease is not contagious and affects mostly young males who vape. So completely different from Covid. Your tinfoil hat antics are getting tiresome.
Allow me to disagree, it is contagious by example. If in a group one vapes, and then to be "in" others will follow. Specially young teenagers who like to show off a bit.

Same for smoking. If in a kid's environment every male is smoking (because if you don't you're not a real man, like here in Indo) there is very high chance that the sons will follow in the same path.

So the thing will spread, same as a virus.
 

dafluff

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Allow me to disagree, it is contagious by example. If in a group one vapes, and then to be "in" others will follow. Specially young teenagers who like to show off a bit.

Same for smoking. If in a kid's environment every male is smoking (because if you don't you're not a real man, like here in Indo) there is very high chance that the sons will follow in the same path.

So the thing will spread, same as a virus.

contagious
/kənˈteɪdʒəs/

adjective
1.
(of a disease) spread from one person or organism to another, typically by direct contact. "a contagious disease"
 

Balifrog

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contagious
/kənˈteɪdʒəs/

adjective
1.
(of a disease) spread from one person or organism to another, typically by direct contact. "a contagious disease"
My Gosh....where are the roll eyes ?

OK, another example....
"Fear is contagious. Our communications have the capability of counteracting the panic and inspiring confidence. We can release oxytocin when we empathise with one another, when we share our stories and get on common ground. Once we are all on board, we can get to thinking clearly and proactively."
 

Dave70

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Except Vaping lung disease is not contagious and affects mostly young males who vape. So completely different from Covid. Your tinfoil hat antics are getting tiresome.

Been busy lately…

Look how it started, harryopal remarked “Covid 19 may have escaped from an experimental laboratory in Wuhan“ (post #2) which I countered with “Or may have escaped from the Fort Detrick US Army Laboratory in Maryland, USA“ including a link to an opinion piece to back-up why I say what I said (post #5). It would have stopped then and there, but HappyMan’s reply (post #7) compel me to respond with the references he questioned. Presented as a timeline of events as reported in the mainstream media, it shows the many “coincidences” are worthy reasons for an investigation of Fort Detrick. After all, the only reason for an investigation of Wuhan is that the virus was first identified there. Let’s not talk about any conspiracy theory, no alternative news site either, just MSM articles linked here.

People have been quick to label those who think Fort Detrick is the origin as conspiracy theorist. Using the same pretense, those who think Wuhan is the origin are also conspiracy theorists because officially origin is still unknown. That’s why both Wuhan and Fort Detrick have to be investigated. Since Wuhan has been investigated already, it should be Fort Detrick’s turn.

Readers who are “tired” of my posts can just ignore it please. Readers who do not like my posts, I can only say I’m sorry for the truth that hurts. Moderators who want to delete my posts, please do what you have to do, no hard feelings. Nothing will stop me reading the news, thinking critically, and forming my own opinion.
 

ChrisTex

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People have been quick to label those who think Fort Detrick is the origin as conspiracy theorist. Using the same pretense, those who think Wuhan is the origin are also conspiracy theorists because officially origin is still unknown. That’s why both Wuhan and Fort Detrick have to be investigated. Since Wuhan has been investigated already, it should be Fort Detrick’s turn.

By whom has Wuhan been inspected by? By WHO(the organization)? Was it an independent investigation group?
 

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