Quality of Healthcare and Physicians

[pantaiema]

I've got the expired alcoholic bit down, and I could probably rent a suit...

I bet chatgpt has decimated the industry though

IMHO, only in areas such as social sciences, humanity, history, etc. This generative language based AI such as ChatGPT, can provide a significant assistance.

If you look at many Indonesian officials, such as regents, mayors, governors, ministers, and members of parliament, you will notice that many of them hold master's degree in social sciences, political science, humanitarian studies, etc. However, it's widely known that some of these individuals do not attend lectures. complete coursework, or even attend the exam.

A generative language based AI like ChatGPT or getting help by a Ghostwriter cannot assist in fields where personal skills must be demonstrably proven, such as in science, engineering, mathematics, medicine, pharmacy or dentistry. It is the same way that ChatGPT cannot help people passing practical tests in a driving test, where personal skill is essential. In this case money might be more helpful than AI.

While there are concerns about the quality of physicians and pharmacists in Indonesia, as discussed in this thread, I believe that if they are practising in hospitals, they must possess some level of knowledge in their field, although if might be sub-standard or they are not intelligent enough, too lazy to update their skills, knowledge, to follow the new trend, invention in science, new method in their profession. I am yet to find a person dare to perform heart or eye surgery without proper training? There are robots but it still needs surgeon with skills to run and control them.

And who would be capable of designing and manufacturing a robot, aircraft, or jet fighter, nuclear reactor without the necessary knowledge and expertise?

 

[atlantis]

Eye surgery and LASIK is probably one of the more advanced (and better) developed areas in the medical world in RI.

Definitely agree with that. I just had a laser eye surgery for cataract a couple of week ago in Manado and I am satisfied beyond what I expected.
Even though I have no heath insurance nor I am a peserta BPJS I've found the cost quite cheap considering how it has improved my life.
The only minus was the music playlist during operation. I came in to stop being blind but I definitely wished I was deaf.

 

[Wisnu]

for cataract surgery under BPJS, this guy explained in detail the process and the result later on his vlog

 

[Hawk256]

Definitely agree with that. I just had a laser eye surgery for cataract a couple of week ago in Manado and I am satisfied beyond what I expected.
Even though I have no heath insurance nor I am a peserta BPJS I've found the cost quite cheap considering how it has improved my life.
The only minus was the music playlist during operation. I came in to stop being blind but I definitely wished I was deaf.

I am due a tuneup of my laser vision correction. When they did it years ago, they gave me mono vision so that I wouldn't need reading glasses. He told me that by the time I was 50 or so it would need at least one eye redone. Starting to need reading glasses so I guess it's time. Considering using Jakarta Eye Center as they did some work for me in the past and I was very happy with them. Anyone heard anything lately about them that would make me reconsider using them?

 

[pantaiema]

This video clip explains why many moderately wealthy Indonesians prefer seeking medical treatment in Malaysia. Treatment in Indonesia (particularly in Jakarta) tends to be more costly and takes longer.


Medical Treatment in Indonesia is More Expensive and Takes Longer


Going Viral Banner Inviting People to Seek Medical Treatment in Malaysia
The banner showing in Malaysian Embassy in Jakarta: Want to seek medical treatment : Why not in Malaysia? It is closer and more affordable?

These people also speak from their personal Experiences. Beside costly and takes longer, also because of misdiagnose


The Reason I chose to Seek Medical Treatment in Malaysia Rather Than Indonesia

She compares both the duration and cost of the procedure with similar ones, e.g. spinal surgery her aunt underwent in Jakarta. Here is the breakdown:

Cost: The combined expenses, including the operation, travel, accommodation, and meals for three people e.g herself, her mother, and brother, amount to only a quarter of the operation cost alone in Jakarta.

Duration: The procedure in Penang Malaysia took just 3 days, compared to 2 weeks in Jakarta.

Although it is unwise to depend solely on few people experience, a substantial number of others undergoing treatment in Malaysia report similar experience. Also, these individuals have little incentive to be dishonest, and social media has made it easier for everyday people to share their personal experiences.


My Mother Was a Victim of Fatal MISDIAGNOSIS.

His mother was first misdiagnosed with sinusitis, but it was later discovered to be a malignant tumor, cancer.

In the past, Indonesia helped educate Malaysians to become doctors, but now the situation is reversed. Few Malaysian students (if any) are interested in studying medicine in Indonesia.

This is the consequence of money influencing education. Nowadays, 'money route' accounting for 50% of Indonesian state university admissions. It’s disheartening to witness this.

 

[Dave70]

Hospital nurse should be forbidden to accept money or gifts from patients, there should be a large sign at the hospital that says "No Tipping". Don't go to a hospital (public or private) where tipping is a culture, unless you are genuinely happy to tip every single day of your stay. Don't expect heartfelt service if you don't give any tip, especially if you look rich. The feeling is terrible... that is, if you stand up for your principles. Everybody else tip, why don't you? Of course, not all hospitals have such culture.

 

[Shadrach]

This subject is one that just goes round and round, and never stops! The root of the problem is Corruption! The people in charge are not stupid. They know that this could be corrected. If a doctor can buy their degree, and become a practicing doctor without the proper training, people will be hurt, sometimes fatally! I'm sure all of the people in charge of this, leave the country for any serious medical needs.
Now the new International hospital is almost finished in Sanur. Does anyone really expect International quality service? If they do, they are in for a big surprise! If I am wrong, I will be the first to admit it, but that's to be seen.
Sadly, this all boils down to MONEY!!

 

[Shadrach]

This is such a tragic, sad reality of the medical system here in Bali. Allowing People to buy their doctor degree's should be exposed and Stopped! I signed up and have BPJS coverage, but the only doctors that accept it, are not to the Standards I want or need. I had several small skin cancers, and went to the Hospitals that accept BPJS, and the doctors I saw, didn't even get out of their chair to examine me! They just prescribed some ineffective cream and sent me on my way! I had to go to Wing Amerta hospital and Pay Cash to get the care I needed. They would only take private insurance or Cash. This is Outrageous!
Now there is the new so called International Hospital in Sanur. I haven't heard any post about it. Is it open yet? If it is, if someone has been there. Please give us your opinion of the Quality, cost, experience there is like?

 

[Shadrach]

Same idea as, Q: What do you all the person who graduated in last place at West Point?
A: Officer

A Damn Idiot! And Fool!

 

[fastpitch17]

Hospital nurse should be forbidden to accept money or gifts from patients, there should be a large sign at the hospital that says "No Tipping". Don't go to a hospital (public or private) where tipping is a culture, unless you are genuinely happy to tip every single day of your stay. Don't expect heartfelt service if you don't give any tip, especially if you look rich. The feeling is terrible... that is, if you stand up for your principles. Everybody else tip, why don't you? Of course, not all hospitals have such culture.

There was one occasion when I was getting a follow up exam with BPJS where the doctor sat there and complained about how little he gets from BPJS and openly wanted his patients on BPJS to subsidize it themselves. This after waiting 5 hours because he was busy elsewhere. I told him to take it up with the government, not me. I figured it out somewhat after I left. He was to see close to 50 patients on BPJS that day according to him and besides no one getting much actual medical service with limited time, the doctor was getting around 30,000 per patient. That would come out to 1.5 juta for that day, just at that one location since doctors have office hours at maybe 2 or 3 hospitals a day. I imagined that if they eliminated BPJS there would be a far cry smaller number of patients seen and that doctors could actually be making more with BPJS than without.

This was the only time and probably the last time we will ever get a doctor's visit with BPJS. We have normally just paid cash for a doctor's visit. You normally do not wait long to get in. They all still want to be in a hurry. Like it or not, I am in their office until I want to leave.

 

[Shadrach]

There was one occasion when I was getting a follow up exam with BPJS where the doctor sat there and complained about how little he gets from BPJS and openly wanted his patients on BPJS to subsidize it themselves. This after waiting 5 hours because he was busy elsewhere. I told him to take it up with the government, not me. I figured it out somewhat after I left. He was to see close to 50 patients on BPJS that day according to him and besides no one getting much actual medical service with limited time, the doctor was getting around 30,000 per patient. That would come out to 1.5 juta for that day, just at that one location since doctors have office hours at maybe 2 or 3 hospitals a day. I imagined that if they eliminated BPJS there would be a far cry smaller number of patients seen and that doctors could actually be making more with BPJS than without.

This was the only time and probably the last time we will ever get a doctor's visit with BPJS. We have normally just paid cash for a doctor's visit. You normally do not wait long to get in. They all still want to be in a hurry. Like it or not, I am in their office until I want to leave.

A major problem here is the extremely low amount of money BPJS charges to the lowest level. Even the top bracket is only 150,000RP. A month. I would be happy to pay more for better service! Another major problem is the common diet of the majority of people. A daily mountain of GMO bleached white rice, that has zero nutritional value. With that almost everything is deep fried to death in vats of overheated Palm Oil. Then left out in the tropical heat to collect bacteria! So there is very little nutritional food being eaten daily. Which leads to Hypertension, Obesity, and Diabetes! Plus the Children's Brains don't get the proper Nutrition needed for proper development!
People here just aren't eating Healthy and don't even know it! Also many people go to the doctor for even a common cold, because the insurance system covers it! Which waste a lot of time for the system. Improve BPJS, Pay the doctors better, and educate the people about eating a healthier diet.
As with everything else in Indonesia. Corruption plays a major part of this problem. Between the Hospital administrations, and BPJS, and Doctors being able to buy their degrees, funds are being stolen, and misallocated, which keeps this system in Chaos!

 

[merahputih]

Also many people go to the doctor for even a common cold, because the insurance system covers it! Which waste a lot of time for the system.

Many adults go to the doctor for common cold to get surat keterangan sakit. They need to show that a doctor has verified that they are really sick and not make it up. On the other hand, many people will work anyway even if they are sick. Many business owner won't pay workers for sick leave. Loosing salary for one day is hard enough for some people.

 

[Hawk256]

A major problem here is the extremely low amount of money BPJS charges to the lowest level. Even the top bracket is only 150,000RP. A month. I would be happy to pay more for better service!

Buy your own private insurance from one of the many available companies then. Problem solved.

 

[Shadrach]

Buy your own private insurance from one of the many available companies then. Problem solved.

Buy your own private insurance from one of the many available companies then. Problem solved.

That doesn't fix the problem with BPJS!

 

[Hawk256]

That doesn't fix the problem with BPJS!

But it fixes your problem. Do you really think BPJS will ever be fixed, especially to your liking? If you don't like it, don't use it. It's a pretty simple thing.

 

[Shadrach]

But it fixes your problem. Do you really think BPJS will ever be fixed, especially to your liking? If you don't like it, don't use it. It's a pretty simple thing.

Your right! I would buy private insurance, but at my age being 70, it is over my budget! I just can't pay $700, or $800 a month, or more!

 

[Hawk256]

Your right! I would buy private insurance, but at my age being 70, it is over my budget! I just can't pay $700, or $800 a month, or more!

You can always pay cash per procedure if you don't want insurance. You really can't expect a lot for $10 per month. I have used BPJS for emergencies and it works great. For other stuff, not so much. The biggest problem I have seen is that if BPJS says they will cover 3 days, then the hospital says you MUST stay 3 days because of BPJS rules. We all know they are just getting the max they can. An outpatient procedure can turn into a 3 day hospital stay.

 

[Shadrach]

You can always pay cash per procedure if you don't want insurance. You really can't expect a lot for $10 per month. I have used BPJS for emergencies and it works great. For other stuff, not so much. The biggest problem I have seen is that if BPJS says they will cover 3 days, then the hospital says you MUST stay 3 days because of BPJS rules. We all know they are just getting the max they can. An outpatient procedure can turn into a 3 day hospital stay.

That's exactly what I am forced to do. I already said, I would more than Happy to pay BPJS more than the $10 top level fee I pay now, if I could get coverage I need done! And making someone stay the Max 3 days for more money is a waste. Hospitals, and Doctors, overcharging the insurance companies is what creates this problem of the insurance companies not wanting to pay for people's coverage! Example= A Hospital charging $10 for an Aspirin, or bandage! Or a Doctor performing a procedure that is unnecessary to charge the insurance company the Max! These problems need to be brought to the surface, shown to the Public, and the Hospitals, and Doctors forced to be held accountable!
Also Doctors should be Not be allowed to buy the credentials, without passing serious exams, and proving they are Qualified to be licensed! This is Unethical, and Dangerous!