Quality of Healthcare and Physicians

"....I also have (eg: the Symbicort inhaler). Not sure of these costs at this stage...."
Given your experience I am sure you know much more about this than I do. I have read that inhalers can have adverse features and overuse can result in your lungs becoming unresponsive to medications. I guess like almost every medication there are adverse features so that often we are caught between a rock and a hard place.
 
Given your experience I am sure you know much more about this than I do. I have read that inhalers can have adverse features and overuse can result in your lungs becoming unresponsive to medications. I guess like almost every medication there are adverse features so that often we are caught between a rock and a hard place.
I have never been an inhaler user unless I had acute respiratory problems & I would assume one has to use them fairly often & long term to build up resistance to them. I know nothing though. Common sense would dictate that there will be some balancing out for everything we do to our bodies, as you say every medication has adverse reactions - and sometimes the adverse reactions are what we want from that medicine- Aspirin is a great example- a great general pain relief, yet thins the blood- some of us need that blood thinning property.
Life is just one long adventure into the unknown.
 
I have never been an inhaler user unless I had acute respiratory problems & I would assume one has to use them fairly often & long term to build up resistance to them. I know nothing though. Common sense would dictate that there will be some balancing out for everything we do to our bodies, as you say every medication has adverse reactions - and sometimes the adverse reactions are what we want from that medicine- Aspirin is a great example- a great general pain relief, yet thins the blood- some of us need that blood thinning property.
Life is just one long adventure into the unknown.
I hope you get well soon Bad_azz, pneumonia is hard to get over but you'll build your strength back up over weeks/ months xx

I have recently spent a lot of time in Jakarta hospital ICUs with two very close friends (one unfortunately died - totally unexpected and not necessarily due to the fault of the hospital, she was likely done for before we got her into the hosptial). Another friend had a heart attack in front of me who thankfully is doing very well now. I was very impressed by the care level provided for the heart attack (emergency anioplasty and multiple stent insertions - Pondak Indah hosptial). If I am unfortunate enough to have a heart issue I would be okay with ending up in that hospital!

Dont skip your yearly check-up guys - get your cholesterol/ lipids checked (even if you are below 40 yo) and don't ignore headaches.
 
Something like this does not give me a lot of confidence…

Last Thursday two tourists ‘climbed‘ (honestly it’s more like walked) Mount Agung on Bali around 3:00 a.m. without using the services of a local guide, an Indonesian spokesperson said in a statement. At an altitude of approx. 1600 meters, the Dutch female of 29 years old slipped and fell into a ravine in front of her friend's eyes.

She plunged down 15 meters. Her friend immediately went looking for her and called for help in the meantime. About twenty bystanders came to the site to help with the evacuation. The woman, who was still conscious, was brought down by stretcher. An ambulance rushed her to a specialized clinic.

Doctors tried to save her life there with all their might. Her injuries were serious. “The lower jaw bone was broken, the left arm was broken, the stomach was scratched*, the chin was torn and the front teeth were broken,” the police spokesman said in Indonesian media. An emergency operation was to no avail: the woman died in the hospital from her injuries.

* hopefully a lot is lost in translation here and they meant organ rupture or compressions and lacerations. Blunt traumatic injuries of the stomach are very rare, esp. since the outside of the stomach is very muscular and strong
 
Something like this does not give me a lot of confidence…

Last Thursday two tourists ‘climbed‘ (honestly it’s more like walked) Mount Agung on Bali around 3:00 a.m. without using the services of a local guide, an Indonesian spokesperson said in a statement. At an altitude of approx. 1600 meters, the Dutch female of 29 years old slipped and fell into a ravine in front of her friend's eyes.

She plunged down 15 meters. Her friend immediately went looking for her and called for help in the meantime. About twenty bystanders came to the site to help with the evacuation. The woman, who was still conscious, was brought down by stretcher. An ambulance rushed her to a specialized clinic.

Doctors tried to save her life there with all their might. Her injuries were serious. “The lower jaw bone was broken, the left arm was broken, the stomach was scratched*, the chin was torn and the front teeth were broken,” the police spokesman said in Indonesian media. An emergency operation was to no avail: the woman died in the hospital from her injuries.

* hopefully a lot is lost in translation here and they meant organ rupture or compressions and lacerations. Blunt traumatic injuries of the stomach are very rare, esp. since the outside of the stomach is very muscular and strong
* Hard telling what they were describing as her injuries. As for the stomach scratches it could mean lacerations and those stomach muscles you think are there to make you look slim are actually holding in your internal organs which produce a lot of pressure to get out. A small tear can produce a large exit of your intestines. It also sounds like her head was impacted so brain injury would not be out of the question.

The first step in survival from a serious injury is the injury evaluation and care by the first responders. Probably something not received from the guy at the warung told to drive the ambulance. Untrained personnel do additional damage before you ever see a hospital.
 
I have found very mixed results with the medical system here in Bali. I tore my left rotary cuff, and went to the international hospital. I had a doctor say he was going to preform a micro incision through my skin, and put a band or something like that to pull the two sides together, and hold them together. I found out while in the hospital, all he did was scrap some bursitis from some joints. As I healed, I noticed, I could not lift my arm. It never healed properly, so now I cannot lift my arm above my waist, and have no strength at all in that arm. The shoulder bone, moves all over the place with no socket! It is extremely painful daily, which requires the need for pain medication daily!
I feel totally ripped off, and if I could, I would suite that doctor for malpractice! It has been two years now, so I don't know if it is possible to repair now!
I also have some skin lesions, that get crusty, itchy, and are painful. I went to Four different skin doctors, and all they did was give me some ineffective cream, and pass me off to another Doctor! I don't think they had the knowledge or the skills to remove these lesions! So now, I just use the creams to stop the itching!
How can these people qualify to be Doctors? I think they bought their degrees!
 
I have never been an inhaler user unless I had acute respiratory problems & I would assume one has to use them fairly often & long term to build up resistance to them. I know nothing though. Common sense would dictate that there will be some balancing out for everything we do to our bodies, as you say every medication has adverse reactions - and sometimes the adverse reactions are what we want from that medicine- Aspirin is a great example- a great general pain relief, yet thins the blood- some of us need that blood thinning property.
Life is just one long adventure into the unknown.
And funnily enough, not long after I posted this, the doctor put me on a Symbicort inhaler.
With double pneumonia and a raging asthma attack I was then inhaling a product that I had a very adverse reaction to and it almost killed me. My improvement was insanely rapid once I cut that inhaler out. Not the doctor's fault at all though.
I quit the inhaler but I do take a tablet called Monarin.

Thankfully I have been pretty healthy since 1st Jan.
 
The first step in survival from a serious injury is the injury evaluation and care by the first responders. Probably something not received from the guy at the warung told to drive the ambulance. Untrained personnel do additional damage before you ever see a hospital.
Waiting first responders? That would be a lot of waiting.
 
I have found very mixed results with the medical system here in Bali. I tore my left rotary cuff, and went to the international hospital. I had a doctor say he was going to preform a micro incision through my skin, and put a band or something like that to pull the two sides together, and hold them together. I found out while in the hospital, all he did was scrap some bursitis from some joints. As I healed, I noticed, I could not lift my arm. It never healed properly, so now I cannot lift my arm above my waist, and have no strength at all in that arm. The shoulder bone, moves all over the place with no socket! It is extremely painful daily, which requires the need for pain medication daily!
I feel totally ripped off, and if I could, I would suite that doctor for malpractice! It has been two years now, so I don't know if it is possible to repair now!
I also have some skin lesions, that get crusty, itchy, and are painful. I went to Four different skin doctors, and all they did was give me some ineffective cream, and pass me off to another Doctor! I don't think they had the knowledge or the skills to remove these lesions! So now, I just use the creams to stop the itching!
How can these people qualify to be Doctors? I think they bought their degrees!
That sounds not like "mixed results", more like medical malpractice. There are only few hospitals in Indonesia on top level.
 
That sounds not like "mixed results", more like medical malpractice. There are only few hospitals in Indonesia on top level.
I was speaking of Bali only. What amazed me, was the system here is, I go in for a consultation, they just sit on their asses, and not even look at my lesions, prescribe some ineffective cream, and pass me on to another wortless Doctor, which repeats the process! The last one I saw was even a Cancer surgeon! She was the worst, she didn't even look at me, but sent me off to another clown! I heard Martha Fang might be better, but I am afraid of wasting money on transport again for more talking only! Any comments?
 
I was speaking of Bali only. What amazed me, was the system here is, I go in for a consultation, they just sit on their asses, and not even look at my lesions, prescribe some ineffective cream, and pass me on to another wortless Doctor, which repeats the process! The last one I saw was even a Cancer surgeon! She was the worst, she didn't even look at me, but sent me off to another clown! I heard Martha Fang might be better, but I am afraid of wasting money on transport again for more talking only! Any comments?
My comment would be just try it, could the one who actually helps. How much can wasting money for transportation in the times of Grab and Co. really be? I don't wanna make uninformed statements about your financial status, but iam sure a Grab ride to a hospital/clinic won't break the bank. At least I hope so.
 
Waiting for the first responders
That usually the first recorders
Who stand there and watch and get it all on their phones to so we can see it all later
 
I was speaking of Bali only. What amazed me, was the system here is, I go in for a consultation, they just sit on their asses, and not even look at my lesions, prescribe some ineffective cream, and pass me on to another wortless Doctor, which repeats the process! The last one I saw was even a Cancer surgeon! She was the worst, she didn't even look at me, but sent me off to another clown! I heard Martha Fang might be better, but I am afraid of wasting money on transport again for more talking only! Any comments?
I am probably most doctors' nightmare- I make notes before I go visit.
In these notes I record ;
my BP (several times a day over a week),
I record any and all symptoms that I think are pertinent,
I record frequencies of medical episodes,
I note all medications I am using and have used, and any bad reactions.
I note my medical history and any pertinent family medical history.
I then make a full and good translation into Indonesian.
When I first meet a doctor I do not let them come at me with an imperious attitude. My first question is where did you study and what did you qualify in.
If the doc baulks at that I walk out.
-
In my experience the doctors who have worked their arses of studying and practicing medicine are very happy to share their achievements. These are the doctors I want working on me.
If they don't like it I don't care and I most certainly do not want my health under their control.
 
When I first meet a doctor I do not let them come at me with an imperious attitude. My first question is where did you study and what did you qualify in. If the doc baulks at that I walk out.
-
In my experience the doctors who have worked their arses of studying and practicing medicine are very happy to share their achievements. These are the doctors I want working on me.
If they don't like it I don't care and I most certainly do not want my health under their control.
Be aware that nearly all Indonesian state universities (if not all) now admit students even if they don't pass the entrance exam outright.

There is an alternative route, known as the non-subsidized route, where the students can gain admission by paying a 'donation.', charged and managed locally by the state universities themselves. This non-subsidized route allows entry into prestigious universities, including top medical schools like the University of Indonesia (Jakarta), Gajahmada University (Yogyakarta), and Airlangga University (Surabaya) by paying donation. Actually, in the past to enter these top medical schools is very tough and competitive. It was only the very talented students could gain admission. However, with the non-subsidized route is now available, graduates from these top Indonesian universities may not have the same quality as regular graduates due to differences in inherent talent in the first instance. After graduation, there is no way to know the admission route a student used, as their degree certificates do not indicate how they were initially admitted.

Approximately fifty percent of students at the states universities in Indonesia are now admitted through the non-subsidized route. The more students gain entry with this non subsidised route the more they like it as the money is collected and managed by themselves. There is a link about this I posted in my previous posts.

For popular programs such as medicine, particular engineering courses the donation can reach several hundred million rupiahs. On the top of that their annual tuition fees are significantly higher than those of regular entry.
 
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Unfortunately , being in a developing country is a big risk ,health care wise .

There are some good doctors here of course ,but ya it requires searching, many do not follow the Hippocratic oath as in my wifes experience .

Double or triple checking is the way to go Imho , it should not be so but ya the reality here .

Iv been in worse countries of course were there was next to "naff all"

Most of the well heeled here jump a plane to Singapore or if they are not so well off Malaysia ,but ya that does not solve the 'golden hour treatment for an emergency'
 
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Be aware that nearly all Indonesian state universities (if not all) now admit students even if they don't pass the entrance exam outright.

There is an alternative route, known as the non-subsidized route, where the students can gain admission by paying a 'donation.', charged and managed locally by the state universities themselves. This non-subsidized route allows entry into prestigious universities, including top medical schools like the University of Indonesia (Jakarta), Gajahmada University (Yogyakarta), and Airlangga University (Surabaya) by paying donation. Actually, in the past to enter these top medical schools is very tough and competitive. It was only the very talented students could gain admission. However, with the non-subsidized route is now available, graduates from these top Indonesian universities may not have the same quality as regular graduates due to differences in inherent talent in the first instance. After graduation, there is no way to know the admission route a student used, as their degree certificates do not indicate how they were initially admitted.

Approximately fifty percent of students at the states universities in Indonesia are now admitted through the non-subsidized route. The more students gain entry with this non subsidised route the more they like it as the money is collected and managed by themselves. There is a link about this I posted in my previous posts.

For popular programs such as medicine, particular engineering courses the donation can reach several hundred million rupiahs. On the top of that their annual tuition fees are significantly higher than those of regular entry.
.
I am aware of the dirty education system. Those are specifically the doctors I tend to weed out in my questioning of them. If I know more medical terms than they do, they aren't coming near my old body.
 
I am probably most doctors' nightmare- I make notes before I go visit.
In these notes I record ;
my BP (several times a day over a week),
I record any and all symptoms that I think are pertinent,
I record frequencies of medical episodes,
I note all medications I am using and have used, and any bad reactions.
I note my medical history and any pertinent family medical history.
I then make a full and good translation into Indonesian.
When I first meet a doctor I do not let them come at me with an imperious attitude. My first question is where did you study and what did you qualify in.
If the doc baulks at that I walk out.
-
In my experience the doctors who have worked their arses of studying and practicing medicine are very happy to share their achievements. These are the doctors I want working on me.
If they don't like it I don't care and I most certainly do not want my health under their control.
I applaud you for that, not everyone has the balls to do so. My grandma was of the same type. And sorry for the choice of words, I didn't mean to say you actually have balls or you are a grandma.🤣😉
She always said stuff like they have to shit like us, right? Why treat them like untouchable gods. Yeah..good old memories.🤣
 
I applaud you for that, not everyone has the balls to do so. My grandma was of the same type. And sorry for the choice of words, I didn't mean to say you actually have balls or you are a grandma.🤣😉
She always said stuff like they have to shit like us, right? Why treat them like untouchable gods. Yeah..good old memories.🤣
I am not offended.
& your gran was correct , they are humans & the ones who cheat and buy their way through the system tend to be the ones who get defensive when questioned. & if I offend a couple of genuine docs along the way, tough. I would rather trust my BS detector than their word.
 

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