How Indonesian resort island Bali became a refuge for Ukrainians and Russians

[Samoerai]

Also if they are the third generation, they are likely already the Dutch Citizen. I am not quite sure how come other Dutch people would like or ask them to leave if they have the same right with anyone else in the Netherlands ??

Geert Wilders is a politician and his party is called PVV, which has for many years the most votes at elections. Video is about "Do you want more or less Marocco people in this country?" People shouting "Less, less, less". Marocco people are not fully accepted in Holland as for most of the different etnic people living in Holland. Same applies for the Chinese people living in Indonesia: in their ktp it says "WNI keturunan" .. so not accepted as full citizens in Indonesia .. their ancestors btw were brought to Indonesia, before Dutch Indies, as slave workers, to work in the fields, because in that area there were not enough Indonesian workers.

 

[centurion]

Geert Wilders is a politician and his party is called PVV, which has for many years the most votes at elections. Video is about "Do you want more or less Marocco people in this country?" People shouting "Less, less, less". Marocco people are not fully accepted in Holland as for most of the different etnic people living in Holland. Same applies for the Chinese people living in Indonesia: in their ktp it says "WNI keturunan" .. so not accepted as full citizens in Indonesia .. their ancestors btw were brought to Indonesia, before Dutch Indies, as slave workers, to work in the fields, because in that area there were not enough Indonesian workers.

Geert Wilders is Indo, mixed Dutch-Indonesian (brown?).
Chinese people or Indonesians of Chinese origin, have KTPs stating WNI only, not "WNI Keturunan".

 

[Samoerai]

Geert Wilders is Indo, mixed Dutch-Indonesian (brown?).
Chinese people or Indonesians of Chinese origin, have KTPs stating WNI only, not "WNI Keturunan".

Geert Wilders grandmother is the only link to the former Dutch Indies, but his grandmother born in Jakarta has no Indonesian blood, she is a full-blooded Dutch

 

[centurion]

Geert Wilders grandmother is the only link to the former Dutch Indies, but his grandmother born in Jakarta has no Indonesian blood, she is a full-blooded Dutch

Wikipedia about him claims he is mixed, and the reference mentions grandma is Jewish-Indonesian.

Geert Wilders - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

...The 6-page article reveals that Wilders' grandmother, Johanna Ording-Meijer, came from an old Jewish-Indonesian family and that Wilders lied about this in his 2008 biography. However, Van Leeuwen, an expert on the position of Indo-Dutch people in the post-colonial age, goes beyond the notion that a politician known for judging others on their ethnic roots can himself be traced to foreign ancestors.

 

[jstar]

To return to the original topic:

Now we will have to see if in our future Prabowo government, as a part of the Orba versi dua (New Order II) program, the Russian and Ukrainian Indonesians will also be ‘encouraged’ to change their names to Indonesian sounding versions.

So Pudjiadi instead of Putin, Komarudin instead of Khomchak, Chandiluhur instead of Zaluzhnyi, Kusnadi instead of Kuznezov, etc. etc.

And obviously, as the Chinese Indonesians, eh … Indonesian Chinese at the time, they will have to pay double for the birth certificates and get a special code on their KTP’s.

 

[Samoerai]

Wikipedia about him claims he is mixed, and the reference mentions grandma is Jewish-Indonesian.

Geert Wilders - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

...The 6-page article reveals that Wilders' grandmother, Johanna Ording-Meijer, came from an old Jewish-Indonesian family and that Wilders lied about this in his 2008 biography. However, Van Leeuwen, an expert on the position of Indo-Dutch people in the post-colonial age, goes beyond the notion that a politician known for judging others on their ethnic roots can himself be traced to foreign ancestors.

Thanks for the link. I also found a really(!) interessing article about Wilders and his background. and the regarding Indo's in general. I didn't know this about Indo's.

Wreker van zijn Indische grootouders

Geert Wilders lijkt alle politiek te reduceren tot vraagstukken van grensbewaking, volkstelling en volksverplaatsing. Displacedness vormt het steeds terugkerende motief van zijn betoog en niet toevallig ook van zijn verborgen Indische familiegeschiedenis.

www.groene.nl

 

[ChrisTex]

To return to the original topic:

Now we will have to see if in our future Prabowo government, as a part of the Orba versi dua (New Order II) program, the Russian and Ukrainian Indonesians will also be ‘encouraged’ to change their names to Indonesian sounding versions.

So Pudjiadi instead of Putin, Komarudin instead of Khomchak, Chandiluhur instead of Zaluzhnyi, Kusnadi instead of Kuznezov, etc. etc.

And obviously, as the Chinese Indonesians, eh … Indonesian Chinese at the time, they will have to pay double for the birth certificates and get a special code on their KTP’s.

I am going to change my name to Wolverine then. Just to be safe since it is country neautral.

The name was inspired by the following links:

18 Outrageous Indonesian Names Legally Proven By ID Cards | WowShack

These people are either crazy, or their parents just wanted to see them suffer. But we have nothing but admiration for the people who break taboos and don’t conform to standard, boring names. These rule-breakers have gone out of their way to bring smiles to the faces of anyone who has ever asked...

www.wowshack.com

9 unusual Indonesian names

William Shakespeare once said, “What’s in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.” Though the poet was right, his wise words did not apply for Indonesians.

www.thejakartapost.com

 

[jstar]

Thanks for the link. I also found a really(!) interessing article about Wilders and his background. and the regarding Indo's in general. I didn't know this about Indo's.

Wreker van zijn Indische grootouders

Geert Wilders lijkt alle politiek te reduceren tot vraagstukken van grensbewaking, volkstelling en volksverplaatsing. Displacedness vormt het steeds terugkerende motief van zijn betoog en niet toevallig ook van zijn verborgen Indische familiegeschiedenis.

www.groene.nl

If that article from 14 years ago would be published now, they (the ultra left publisher) would be sued for racism.

The thing is that the position of the Indo and the Indische Dutch, coming to the Netherlands, can not be compared to the influx of south Europeans, Moroccans and Turks later. The latter were invited in for (low level) work. The former were refugees from a now hostile country. So, also being from partly Dutch descent, it is not strange they don’t consider themselves as immigrants.

Of course the anti Islam rhetoric is an ever lasting issue in the western world. I do feel you can make the point that we (as expats) have to adjust perhaps more to a mainly Muslim society as the people who migrate to a western country.

For the Russians and Ukrainians those things are not that much of a problem; if you live on Bali where the atmosphere and social norms are very different from that on Java, you won’t ‘feel’ the restrictions that much.

I’m curious how the Indonesian government will react the moment the Ukrainian war has ended. Will they allow them to stay, continue the development of an enclave as a Kampung Russia? That might make a Bali rather undesirable for quite some tourists. On the other hand, if they have PT PMA’s in place or companies owned by local spouses there is no way to end that.

Perhaps I’m wrong but I don’t think the companies and jobs they created (see video) add so much value to the local economy; they don’t hire Balinese, don’t spend so much money and it makes you wonder how much taxes are being paid if their customers are residing abroad.

 

[Samoerai]

If that article from 14 years ago would be published now, they (the ultra left publisher) would be sued for racism.

The thing is that the position of the Indo and the Indische Dutch, coming to the Netherlands, can not be compared to the influx of south Europeans, Moroccans and Turks later. The latter were invited in for (low level) work. The former were refugees from a now hostile country. So, also being from partly Dutch descent, it is not strange they don’t consider themselves as immigrants.

Of course the anti Islam rhetoric is an ever lasting issue in the western world. I do feel you can make the point that we (as expats) have to adjust perhaps more to a mainly Muslim society as the people who migrate to a western country.

For the Russians and Ukrainians those things are not that much of a problem; if you live on Bali where the atmosphere and social norms are very different from that on Java, you won’t ‘feel’ the restrictions that much.

I’m curious how the Indonesian government will react the moment the Ukrainian war has ended. Will they allow them to stay, continue the development of an enclave as a Kampung Russia? That might make a Bali rather undesirable for quite some tourists. On the other hand, if they have PT PMA’s in place or companies owned by local spouses there is no way to end that.

Perhaps I’m wrong but I don’t think the companies and jobs they created (see video) add so much value to the local economy; they don’t hire Balinese, don’t spend so much money and it makes you wonder how much taxes are being paid if their customers are residing abroad.

I just watched that video about Russian & Ukrainian refrugees setting up business in Bali. Too bad this reporter not makes fully clear what bussinesses and how much investments are involved. Very superficial report.

 

[Balifrog]

I am pretty sure, considering the number of them, they pour a decent amount of money in the local economy.
Lodging, motorbike rent, daily food, a bit of beer, restaurant....
But on the other hand it is clear that a "shadow economy" gravitates around them and assist them with different matters (language, visa, lessons for the kids...)

 

[jstar]

they pour a decent amount of money in the local economy.
Lodging, motorbike rent,

I‘m sorry but sometimes I wonder if you really live in Bali.

Thats exactly where the locals complain about; those people are not just living there and spending money, they start their own business and compete with the locals! And many villas are (illegally) sub rented in kos etc.

Remember the distortion case with Nikolay Romanov in Canggu? He got his 21 motorbikes from Dmitri Babaev btw, so there’s really no more Balinese involved in that whole purchase and rental setup.

Warga Rusia Pemeras Pengusaha Asing Kantongi Uang Rp121 Juta dan 22 Unit Motor

Pemerasan yang dilakukan warga negara Rusia terhadap pengusaha asing di Bali tak tanggung-tanggung. Pelaku mengantongi uang Rp121 juta dan 22 sepeda motor.

bali.inews.id

 

[harryopal1]

A former Russian neighbour, who had to return as his passport had expired and could not renew it here, said there were a lot of Russian Mafia. So, whatever the impediments, the Russian Mafia tradition would be to bribe their way around them.

 

[jstar]

Obviously it’s not only Bali. After Thailand reopened its borders, Russians have become the third largest visitor group after Malaysia and India. They‘re talking about a staggering 330.000 over three months only.

The Bali Provincial Tourism Office estimates the number of Russian and Ukrainian foreigners who have been to Bali last year is 65,000 people. In January 2023 alone, the amount of new Russians was 22,703 people. There were 2,633 Ukrainians who visited Bali last January.

 

[Samoerai]

Obviously it’s not only Bali. After Thailand reopened its borders, Russians have become the third largest visitor group after Malaysia and India. They‘re talking about a staggering 330.000 over three months only.

The Bali Provincial Tourism Office estimates the number of Russian and Ukrainian foreigners who have been to Bali last year is 65,000 people. In January 2023 alone, the amount of new Russians was 22,703 people. There were 2,633 Ukrainians who visited Bali last January.

65.000 ... that's a lot .. they are taking over Bali.

 

[Vanuatu]

6 months ago walking along the beach in Sanur it was rare to hear any Russian speakers, now every other group/couple walking by are speaking Russian. There is also a luxury beachside apartment starting construction and half the adverts are in Russian. I wish we could contain all of them to Canggu and Ubud as they are both already ruined.

 

[Samoerai]

6 months ago walking along the beach in Sanur it was rare to hear any Russian speakers, now every other group/couple walking by are speaking Russian. There is also a luxury beachside apartment starting construction and half the adverts are in Russian. I wish we could contain all of them to Canggu and Ubud as they are both already ruined.

Ubud already ruined? Why do you say that? Am I missing something?

 

[snpark]

Ubud already ruined? Why do you say that? Am I missing something?

when were you last in Ubud? It is utter chaos these days, traffic alone but the streets etc turning into Seminyak etc, it is not the cool artistic hippy place it used to be, now it is just a touristic rip off hell hole

 

[Samoerai]

when were you last in Ubud? It is utter chaos these days, traffic alone but the streets etc turning into Seminyak etc, it is not the cool artistic hippy place it used to be, now it is just a touristic rip off hell hole

I see. I was in Bali last October, only in Nusa Dua .. masih sepih.

 

[Vanuatu]

Ubud is overcrowded with enclave of Russian areas where they have leased buildings and are subletting them villas and apartments to other Russians with their own illegal stores, services etc with some underworld elements in control. Traffic is terrible, the old charm is long gone.

 

[snpark]

EXCLUSIVE: Unlikely social media activist @moscow_cabang_bali on illegal workers, personal threats, and the focus on Russians | Coconuts

Foreigners working in Bali without a proper permit is a tale as old as time. But they are once again in the spotlight thanks to one anonymous Instagram account.

coconuts.co