How Indonesian resort island Bali became a refuge for Ukrainians and Russians

I doubt Russians would be paying off police. They'd consider themselves above that. Probably the police trying to integrate themselves with the Ruskies and acting as their co workers.
 
Think about it, if you were in their situation i.e. risking being drafted with a 50% chance to die or be seriously injured, as a married man with kids what would you do ? At least if you have the means.
 
Balifrog said:
Think about it, if you were in their situation i.e. risking being drafted with a 50% chance to die or be seriously injured, as a married man with kids what would you do ? At least if you have the means.
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Yep, I have sympathies for whoever wants to avoid going to war and wants to rescue his family. I just don't like the rise of all these parallel structures/cultures. But yeah it is what it is and always has been.
 
Balifrog said:
Think about it, if you were in their situation i.e. risking being drafted with a 50% chance to die or be seriously injured, as a married man with kids what would you do ? At least if you have the means.
Click to expand...
Yes, I can sympathize, but if they get deported back to Russia they'll certainly be drafted before they can even leave the airport. I have known people illegally in Indonesia who fled ethnic violence in Afghanistan and Myanmar, they have the sense to keep a low profile and act humbly. The stereotype that has formed around Russians in Bali has been built on the frequent displays of bravado, arrogance, and open defiance of law and culture.
 
R Cameron said:
Yes, I can sympathize, but if they get deported back to Russia they'll certainly be drafted before they can even leave the airport. I have known people illegally in Indonesia who fled ethnic violence in Afghanistan and Myanmar, they have the sense to keep a low profile and act humbly. The stereotype that has formed around Russians in Bali has been built on the frequent displays of bravado, arrogance, and open defiance of law and culture.
Click to expand...
Those Russians should show their bravado and arrogance on the battle field. Not on the beaches and clubs in Bali.
 
R Cameron said:
The stereotype that has formed around Russians in Bali has been built on the frequent displays of bravado, arrogance,
Click to expand...
Yes, but those are a minority IMHO.
There are now 4 Russian couples in the resort where I live. All living a "normal" family life. All obviously upper middle class.
Russians since centuries have suffered, the climate is harsh. They had 25 million death during WW2. So, yes many of them are "hardcore". Add to that for the majority a complete lack of contact with the outside world.

Just to give you an idea of the mind of some.... Note the generational difference.
 
Balifrog said:
Yes, but those are a minority IMHO.
There are now 4 Russian couples in the resort where I live. All living a "normal" family life. All obviously upper middle class.
Russians since centuries have suffered, the climate is harsh. They had 25 million death during WW2. So, yes many of them are "hardcore". Add to that for the majority a complete lack of contact with the outside world.

Just to give you an idea of the mind of some.... Note the generational difference.
Click to expand...
Shocked learning about the mindset of these people, watching this video. And 60.000 of them living in Bali now. Wow.
 
Balifrog said:
Yes, but those are a minority IMHO.
There are now 4 Russian couples in the resort where I live. All living a "normal" family life. All obviously upper middle class.
Russians since centuries have suffered, the climate is harsh. They had 25 million death during WW2. So, yes many of them are "hardcore". Add to that for the majority a complete lack of contact with the outside world.

Just to give you an idea of the mind of some.... Note the generational difference.
Click to expand...

I think they are a different generation. The new generation now like the most renown people Valentina Shevchenko, Maria Sharapova, Anna Kournikova, Vitalik Buterin, Khabib Nurmagomedov, Islam Makhachev, etc. Other one Alexander Golovin, Natalia Osipova, Erik Bulatov Natalia Vodianova, Andrey Andreev. Also many of wealthy Russian Aristocrats are immigrating to the US and the UK.
Indonesian government has very little to lose as they pay for their residency. In the meanwhile there is no benefit or social security they will get back from Indonesian Government.

What about the illegal immigrants, failed asylum seekers whose main intention is to abuse Indonesia as a transit country to cross to neighbouring countries such as Australia or to be transferred to other developed countries with good benefit, social security systems aiming for benefit social security for the entirely family while never contribute to the systems. They are in Indonesia while keep getting subsidy from International community.

People could put themselves on their shoes. If they stay at home they might be sent to the frontline to fight. In the meanwhile they have a mean to escape. Also as mentioned before Russian people are very competitive. Arguable much more competitive than Indonesian people in general. Many of Indonesian businessmen are building their business at home using facility, monopoly, etc as they cannot compete internationally. Adding a more competitive people to the equation might dilute Indonesian society to become more competitive. History has proven this sort of thing do happen.
 
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Samoerai said:
Shocked learning about the mindset of these people, watching this video. And 60.000 of them living in Bali now. Wow.
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Unfortunately I can do nothing to help the Ukranians being massacred , I stay away from russians on this isand , sadly there are more and more here .

The atmosphere here is being polluted .

I thought hitler and his freinds were finished in Europe , it seems not .
 
Obviously nothing new under the sun…

english.elpais.com

‘Ibiza is getting out of hand’: How the party island became the backyard of the mega-rich

Capri. St. Tropez. Now Ibiza. The tourism industry is flourishing in the third most expensive destination in the Mediterranean but the flow of wealth threatens to displace almost everyone else
english.elpais.com english.elpais.com

www.bbc.com

Belize’s lessons in eco-tourism

While it is never easy to balance tourism with conservation, the small Central American country has long recognized that ignoring the latter means betraying the former.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

But the war does accelerate the tempo of change.
 
There are obviously many Russians who have come here who are appalled by the war and are seeking a peaceful life. Then there are those of a criminal mind set whose sole motivation is to make money by whatever means are available. Unfortunately perceptions of different nationalities are often driven by the worst of each countries ill behaved people. Chinese are judged by the rude, arrogant and dreadful behaviour of some of its citizen tourists. Australian boofheads who get drunk, fight and behave obnoxiously has led to a common perception that this the norm for all Australians. And so it will be with Russians as one already sees a lot of negative comments about "typical" Russians.
 
Maybe as a German iam a bit biased when it comes to these things. I see what all these largely uncontrolled parallel societies and structures can do to some places.
Seems like most countries still haven't found the way to successfully control or implement that many immigrants. I thought Indonesians are a bit harder with their rules and ways but yeah Iam not the biggest expert anyway.

I just don't like it when people think they can make their own rules everywhere they go and think they can behave however they want.

From my experience it's still wrong to judge a whole nation/race because of a few. I actually also had a lot of Russian friends and worked with some of them and all was good. But yeah the more people come in the more the "few" also grow.
 
MamangDudul said:
Maybe as a German iam a bit biased when it comes to these things. I see what all these largely uncontrolled parallel societies and structures can do to some places.
Seems like most countries still haven't found the way to successfully control or implement that many immigrants. I thought Indonesians are a bit harder with their rules and ways but yeah Iam not the biggest expert anyway.

I just don't like it when people think they can make their own rules everywhere they go and think they can behave however they want.

From my experience it's still wrong to judge a whole nation/race because of a few. I actually also had a lot of Russian friends and worked with some of them and all was good. But yeah the more people come in the more the "few" also grow.
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I don't judge the whole nation because of a few. I will faught those that openly break the rules while I am expected to keep them and surely would pay a stiff price if I didn't. I also will judge, in this case the 80plus percent of Russians who have openly supported putin while many of them have been able to hide from his war. I figure the individuals in Bali would have been identified and reported by their Embassy unless they have ties to the privileged putin supporters.
 
fastpitch17 said:
I don't judge the whole nation because of a few. I will faught those that openly break the rules while I am expected to keep them and surely would pay a stiff price if I didn't. I also will judge, in this case the 80plus percent of Russians who have openly supported putin while many of them have been able to hide from his war. I figure the individuals in Bali would have been identified and reported by their Embassy unless they have ties to the privileged putin supporters.
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Yeah，I guess that's more or less what I was saying. Call those out who misbehave and do something against them before shit gets out of control，which can happen pretty fast.

About the number of people who supported or not support Putin I don't really care. There are a lot of dynamics at play and as outsiders it's always easy to judge. I don't know if that is whataboutism or whatever but all this talk about Putin supporters worldwide would be a lot more impressive and a lot less hypocritical， if we would judge wars with US involvement with the same standards. This sentence has gotten way too long..
 
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