Extended SIX weeks more

Dharma Police

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With the adjustments made to the restrictions, it seems it is basically almost back to normal. This crap about the number of possitives going down is criminal. The experts at the Universities are saying that there was suddenly less testing being done. Some are now accusing the gov of intentionally reducing the amount if testing just so they could have lower numbers. It looks like this government is following trump's lead where he may not got away with a lot of how he wanted covid handled and get numbers changed, Indonesia doesn't seem to have anyone who can stop what is happening. All I can envision is the deaths taking a sharp upturn and most of them coming out of the traditional markets and factories. There sure looks like there is being more done to kill people than to save them.
Can't stand Trump but unlike most liberals I don't paint conservative presidents with a wide brush. Trump as usual engaged in verbal diarrhea about the pandemic but in the end helped secure an incredible supply of free vaccinations. One of his last acts as president was commendable.

If this government followed his lead, we wouldn't be in this current mess.
 

R Cameron

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Trump as usual engaged in verbal diarrhea about the pandemic but in the end helped secure an incredible supply of free vaccinations.

Honest question, did he? My limited understanding is that Operation Warp Speed was essentially a large preorder, and Pfizer/BionTech, which makes up more than half of US vaccinations, didn't participate at all. I don't think any past or prospective US President would have done any less, so it's a low bar to say "he did the minimum, but at least it wasn't nothing".

As for the rollout when they were finally approved, Trump was solely consumed with trying to overturn the election. I don't recall Trump every making a strong statement in support of vaccinations between his election loss and last day in office, did he? Particularly to a media his followers would be likely to see it? When the Biden administration took the reins they discovered there was practically zero planning for vaccine distribution and rollout.

In his last weeks in office he and Melania got the vaccine in secret, and then wouldn't admit to it until March.

What exactly did he do with the vaccines that was commendable? I would honestly like to know, because as someone who despises 99% of his character and actions, I still like to stay aware of the other 1%.
 
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Dharma Police

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Honest question, did he? My limited understanding is that Operation Warp Speed was essentially a large preorder, and Pfizer/BionTech, which makes up more than half of US vaccinations, didn't participate at all. I don't think any past or prospective US President would have done any less, so it's a low bar to say "he did the minimum, but at least it wasn't nothing".

As for the rollout when they were finally approved, Trump was solely consumed with trying to overturn the election. I don't recall Trump every making a strong statement in support of vaccinations between his election loss and last day in office, did he? Particularly to a media his followers would be likely to see it? When the Biden administration took the reins they discovered there was practically zero planning for vaccine distribution and rollout.

In his last weeks in office he and Melania got the vaccine in secret, and then wouldn't admit to it until March.

What exactly did he do with the vaccines that was commendable? I would honestly like to know, because as someone who despises 99% of his character and actions, I still like to stay aware of the other 1%.
Even Trump's worst critics would agree that his administration understood the vaccine was the only way out and acted accordingly. Do you have friends in the U.S.? I grew up there and my Facebook feed was flooded with posts of my friends getting fully vaccinated. My friends here in Indonesia followed suit. Sadly after boasting about their first vaccine, no follow up.

Oh, and to the guys disliking my post and agreeing with R Cameron, what is it you're applauding and disagreeing with? The US did better than Indonesia getting their citizenry fully vaccinated, period. Fine you don't like Trump (I'm a Dem btw) and as usual he was a prideful, cagey prick but let's not let emotions get in the way of facts. To wit:

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
 
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Dharma Police

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US, the richest country in the world, did better than Indonesia? Something to be proud of :clap2:
You're out of your depth in this discussion. Nothing you said makes any sense. I strongly advise taking a look at the link I provided, specifically the other nations with lower GDP than Indonesia. A lot of countries did better than Indonesia. Stop settling for less.
 

HappyMan

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Honest question, did he? My limited understanding is that Operation Warp Speed was essentially a large preorder, and Pfizer/BionTech, which makes up more than half of US vaccinations, didn't participate at all. I don't think any past or prospective US President would have done any less, so it's a low bar to say "he did the minimum, but at least it wasn't nothing".

As for the rollout when they were finally approved, Trump was solely consumed with trying to overturn the election. I don't recall Trump every making a strong statement in support of vaccinations between his election loss and last day in office, did he? Particularly to a media his followers would be likely to see it? When the Biden administration took the reins they discovered there was practically zero planning for vaccine distribution and rollout.

In his last weeks in office he and Melania got the vaccine in secret, and then wouldn't admit to it until March.

What exactly did he do with the vaccines that was commendable? I would honestly like to know, because as someone who despises 99% of his character and actions, I still like to stay aware of the other 1%.
I don't remember hearing about him promoting vaccines "bigly", either. If he went after the anti-vaxxers on his preferred media outlets the same way he went after every mainstream journalist he encountered (like a pitbull after a porkchop), we would have had a bit less vaccine hesitancy among his voters.

I heard a few governors interviewed about the lack of support and direction/leadership from the federal government, back when things first started getting bad. I'm not entirely inclined to take their word for it, politics and screw turning being what they are, but it fits the fill. I just... why would his vaccine leadership be any better than the rest of his shitshow presidency? The only thing that his administration did, that I know of, was to sign the checks that got pharma to work.

The irony of the situation is that if the vaccines are his one great triumph, then most of his voters won't give a crap about it anyway.
 

HappyMan

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Re Operation Warp Speed, here is a rather long piece from Politico about it, which I'm in the process of alleviating my ignorance with.
 

R Cameron

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Even Trump's worst critics would agree that his administration understood the vaccine was the only way out and acted accordingly. Do you have friends in the U.S.? I grew up there and my Facebook feed was flooded with posts of my friends getting fully vaccinated. My friends here in Indonesia followed suit. Sadly after boasting about their first vaccine, no follow up.

Yes, the US clearly did better with vaccines than many other countries. But you asserted that Trump's vaccine effort was "commendable" and I'm asking what he actually did with regard to vaccines, whether specific actions or broad tone and leadership, that was commendable?
 

Dharma Police

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HappyMan

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Pfizer/BionTech, which makes up more than half of US vaccinations, didn't participate at all.
From Wikipedia, "Pfizer joined the Warp Speed program in July 2020, and signed a $1.95 billion contract to be paid out when the vaccine would be FDA approved, and included an initial order of 100 million vaccines."

And from the Post, "Senior Biden administration officials say they have improved the government’s relationship with Pfizer, which did not take research and development money last year and kept aspects of its operations at arm’s length from the government."
 
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R Cameron

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Okay, I read the whole article, forgive my obtuseness; can you please point me to which action of President Trump regarding vaccines was "commendable"? Any single action that exemplifies bravery, skill, intelligence, persistence, wisdom, or any other commendable virtue.

If you simply mean, "he didn't utterly sabotage the whole process" then please do say so.
If you simply mean, "the US federal government did a good job" then please do say so.
 

Dharma Police

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Okay, I read the whole article, forgive my obtuseness; can you please point me to which action of President Trump regarding vaccines was "commendable"? Any single action that exemplifies bravery, skill, intelligence, persistence, wisdom, or any other commendable virtue.

If you simply mean, "he didn't utterly sabotage the whole process" then please do say so.
If you simply mean, "the US federal government did a good job" then please do say so.
Dude let it go. I just presented you with reporting done by The Washington Post, a liberal news source often grouped with Huff Post, BBC, and freakin' Buzzfeed in their politics, and even they had to concede Trump deserves some credit. You know that CNN leans more to the right than the Post, right?

You read the article sure, but if you can't be more objective and stop engaging in confirmation bias then I have nothing else to say to you.
 

fastpitch17

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Trump uttered the words "Warp Speed". Other than that it came from WH staff and aids that pushed him into it simply because it may be the best thing to save him from totally collapsing his plans to be reelected. He spoke the words, he signed the papers. While doing so stripped the covid panel if any legitimacy.

Trump's Warp Speed wasn't just pushing big pharma into hurrying the vaccine development, they were already working in them and if one would look at other medical related emergencies, they were racing to be first out the gate with a vaccine. Trump's warp speed included more than just the Pharma companies, it included pushing government agencies devoted to overseeing medical developments like the CDC and FDA. His staff managed to control more of what was coming out of the CDC to misinform the populatiin but he run up against a brick wall with the FDA. They ignored his orders to hurry up approvals even when the testing had not been complete or the data analized. He knew more about science than anyone so his word should have been good enough but the FDA said no, we are going to do it the proper way.

Once the Vaccine was available millions of doses were sent to the US. I mean, they paid for them so that would be normal. Trump's total failure was that he had no distribution plan in place when he did get them. States were begging for them but no one knew how they were going to get from storage into awaiting arms. No matter, Trump had gotten his vaccine in his arm but decided because of some of his aids that he should be quiet about it. The antivaxers were coming out in force and they were part of his base. His base that would get the vaccine would just do so no matter what. Those antivaxers could not hear that trump had in fact gotten the vaccine himself.

Trump went on after the introduction of the vaccines to downplay them. It wasn't until the public humiliation of the former presidents all coming out in favor of the vaccines did trump, due to public comments about him, come out with his own endorsement of the vaccines but of course added his own take about, only if you want to basically saying they were not that important.

Trump really has no claim to credit for the vaccine or getting it into arms. His words and signature were erased simply by his willingness to let more and more Americans die. His willingness to allow medical facilities to be over taxed in their capacities. The state of the US today in relation to covid is totally the responsibility of trump and his actions from when he could have done something but refused.

All this Libtard, Demm, Rino, or Republican shit doesn't matter. All lives were lost during trump's lead. Of course, now you have the anti-vaxers and other unvaccinated leading a new wave of death. We can blame the unvaccinated for getting everyone to that point and those that push them on with misinformation and stupid conspiracy junk. Trump has taken the Republican party for the most part with him. That is until his influance weakens and they they will be lining up in 2 groups. One group trying to follow in his foot steps and fighting they are more like trump than the next and the group that lies about how trump never really influanced them.

Everyone seems to think the anti trump world consist of Libtards, communist, socialist, and democrates. This poster was a card carrying Republican until the likes of trump made it into office. The former Democrate who publicly stated that if he ever ran for president he would run as a republican because republicans are stupid and would elect anyone. So true it seems today.

Anyone promoting to not be vaccinated when they could be or trying to convince others to not be vaccinated are simply trying to destroy humanity with their arguments. The claims if not knowing what's in them is bogus at best since they had probably spent their lives ingesting things they never thought about what was in them. These claims of death because of vaccines are being totally, purposely being pushed when they simply can find information that says their numbers just don't add up. I think a real reason for so many anti vaxers is basically they are just pussies and afraid of needles. Before their mothers got them vaccines and now have immunity from some horrible diseases but they just can't get themselves to roll up a sleeve and then watch the medical people laugh at them when they yell, scream, and cry in front if them. Their child like reactions to injections are carried over to their rejection of the shot. They are not adult decissions, they are those of a child. Totally imature. They world would be better off without them. They want to hide their heads in the sandbox and wait for something to come along and burry them the rest of the way. Good riddence.
 

Bad_azz

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Oh, fark, is nowhere safe from the frikken orange turd, he is history can't we all just move on?
If I was American I would actively avoid mentioning him in any but my own tight circle.
Popping him up in a public INTERNATIONAL forum not completely populated by tw*ts is akin to medieval times & being popped in the village stocks- basically asking people to throw rotten veg at you.
time to move on from that particular embarrassing addiction, go off & sniff shoes or something healthier :)
Peace & love to all.
 

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