EV in Indonesia

You are forgetting that solar technology is advancing at a rapid pace. It is not true, that they only last a few years. I had panels that still produced sufficient energy after 20 years! Also the battery technology is advancing also. They will become lighter, last longer, and hold more power longer.
It is a good idea to use energy from the Sun! It's free. And abundant almost everyday.

Many things use precious metals, computers, hospital equipment, aircraft, automobiles, spacecraft. Do you want to stop using those also?
Please give us some ideas, of new alternative energy sources, other than fossil fuels, and Nuclear?
20 years isn't that long compared to other sources that last much longer. Seeing as how the panels are the most expensive part, I would like to see the retun numbers on that. Like I told you before, the only energy source that pass your test are unicorn farts or pixie dust. I am a retired engineer that spent 35 years dealing with electrical supply. I'm no pulling things out my ass.

I am not agaist finding alternatives but we have to weigh out the long term effects. Producing tons of battery waste doesn't seem like a good plan to me.
 
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A report today in Australia that some apartment complexes are banning residents from charging EVs parked in the garage for fear of fire and arguments about the complexities of being compliant with rules about electricity use. How exasperating that would be if one had just bought a new EV and couldn't charge overnight in the building's garage.
electric car explosion
 
Producing tons of battery waste doesn't seem like a good plan to me.

I have kgs of old phone battery at home (from phones with user-replaceable batteries) which I cannot conscientiously dispose for garbage collection (due to safety concern). A phone seller once told me to just bury it in my backyard. Obviously, he doesn't want to take it too.
 
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I have kgs of old phone battery at home (from phones with user-replaceable batteries) which I cannot conscientiously dispose for garbage collection (due to safety concern). A phone seller once told me to just bury it in my backyard. Obviously, he doesn't want to take it too.
You really have kgs. of old batteries? Why do you go through so many batteries? You should get an award, from the battery manufacturer!
 
I have kgs of old phone battery at home (from phones with user-replaceable batteries) which I cannot conscientiously dispose for garbage collection (due to safety concern). A phone seller once told me to just bury it in my backyard. Obviously, he doesn't want to take it too.
For those of us who have wells, let's hope the neighbors don't have the same idea. Nicad, nickel metal and lithium can't be good to have in your water supply.
 
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I don't think that would the case if you counted all the airplane crahes with losses and payouts to families as well as possible damage on the ground agaist all the irradiation incident clean ups. I think plane crashes would be far more costlier.
The compensation, cleanup, decommission cost of the Fukushima accident is approximately 1/2 trillion USD (source).

ChatGPT tells me that typical payouts to families in a commercial airline crash are 50-300k USD per passenger in developing nations and 1-10 million USD in US/EU, so a big range from about 5 million to 2 billion USD in total per crash. So there could be 50 passenger plane crashes in developing nations and 50 in US/EU, each with 200 passengers, and you're still only at 10% of the Fukushima cleanup/compensation.
 
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The compensation, cleanup, decommission cost of the Fukushima accident is approximately 1/2 trillion USD (source).

ChatGPT tells me that typical payouts to families in a commercial airline crash are 50-300k USD per passenger in developing nations and 1-10 million USD in US/EU, so a big range from about 5 million to 2 billion USD in total per crash. So there could be 50 passenger plane crashes in developing nations and 50 in US/EU, each with 200 passengers, and you're still only at 10% of the Fukushima cleanup/compensation.
It is hard for me to comprehend, how on Earth, the Japanese people, could build Nuclear power plants on their islands, after WW11?
 
The compensation, cleanup, decommission cost of the Fukushima accident is approximately 1/2 trillion USD (source).

ChatGPT tells me that typical payouts to families in a commercial airline crash are 50-300k USD per passenger in developing nations and 1-10 million USD in US/EU, so a big range from about 5 million to 2 billion USD in total per crash. So there could be 50 passenger plane crashes in developing nations and 50 in US/EU, each with 200 passengers, and you're still only at 10% of the Fukushima cleanup/compensation.
The thing to remember when looking the numbers you provided for Fukushima is that they are not based on real world exenditures like the air line accidents are. A good bit of specualtion in the prior's case and a lot of may happen to spend in the future. I take it with a grain of salt. Not concrete numbers.
 
The thing to remember when looking the numbers you provided for Fukushima is that they are not based on real world exenditures like the air line accidents are. A good bit of specualtion in the prior's case and a lot of may happen to spend in the future. I take it with a grain of salt. Not concrete numbers.
A grain of salt to you, but sadly, unknown Tons of radioactive waste spilled into the Sea! How can you be so callous? And just talk about numbers, and statistics? 🐎⚛️💩☠️
 
A grain of salt to you, but sadly, unknown Tons of radioactive waste spilled into the Sea! How can you be so callous? And just talk about numbers, and statistics? 🐎⚛️💩☠️
The human cost or the cost to nature was not what was being discussed. Unfortunately in the real world we have to use facts and numbers. I take the numbers with a grain of salt because they are speculative. Has nothing to do with your tender feelings.
 
Probably because a reactor for energy isn't the same as a bomb.
It’s simple, to meet their hungry energy needs, Japan can’t rely on Doraemon’s magic pocket or Godzilla’s fire. They need something real to fill the base load of their massive national grid. I don’t think they love to rely on China for the battery and PV panel; so it’s safer to import uranium from Australia and Canada or KZ; and of course getting LNG from Indonesia, Australia and Qatar.
 
All this talk about power being generated on Islands surrounded by moving oceans and nobody even mentions tidal generated power production. If you look at Japan and claim it is too unstable with it's geology than you better realize that wind generation towers would also fall and solar panels would shatter with the same activity. Japan makes mistakes on possibly where nuclear power plants are located but with better planning they could still rely on them. They have others that are functioning just fine. You can't make all the negative claims based on one accident that was caused by a series of rare natural events. While the clean up is costly in a financial way, I have no fears regarding their plans. Japan has a prolific fishing industry and it would be crazy to think anyone there would even entertain the thought of doing it any harm. Nuclear Regulators around the world has said it was a good plan. Only dissent was from those who don't want Japan to succeed at anything.

While the accident displaced many people, the loss of life was from the tsunami and not the accident.
 
All this talk about power being generated on Islands surrounded by moving oceans and nobody even mentions tidal generated power production. If you look at Japan and claim it is too unstable with it's geology than you better realize that wind generation towers would also fall and solar panels would shatter with the same activity. Japan makes mistakes on possibly where nuclear power plants are located but with better planning they could still rely on them. They have others that are functioning just fine. You can't make all the negative claims based on one accident that was caused by a series of rare natural events. While the clean up is costly in a financial way, I have no fears regarding their plans. Japan has a prolific fishing industry and it would be crazy to think anyone there would even entertain the thought of doing it any harm. Nuclear Regulators around the world has said it was a good plan. Only dissent was from those who don't want Japan to succeed at anything.

While the accident displaced many people, the loss of life was from the tsunami and not the accident.
fastpitch17 "Japan has a prolific fishing industry and it would be crazy to think anyone there would even entertain the thought of doing it any harm."

Perhaps it is not so much entertaining the thought of doing harm as easily ignoring the potential of causing harm and then covering up when profit is threatened. Remember Minamata?

In 1908, the Chisso Corporation first opened a chemical factory in Minamata, Kumamoto Prefecture, located on the west coast of the southern island of Kyūshū. The waste products resulting from the manufacture of chemicals were released into Minamata Bay through the factory wastewater. From around 1950 onward, cats had been seen to have convulsions, go mad, and die. Locals called it the "cat dancing disease", owing to their erratic movement.[2] Crows had fallen from the sky, seaweed no longer grew on the sea bed, and fish floated dead on the surface of the sea.

Chisso refused to co-operate with a research team set up to determine the cause. It withheld information on its industrial processes. The Chisso factory's hospital director, Hajime Hosokawa,carried out own experiments into Minamata disease in July 1959. Food to which factory wastewater had been added was fed to healthy cats. Seventy-eight days into the experiment, cats exhibited symptoms of Minamata disease and pathological examinations confirmed a diagnosis of organic mercury poisoning. Chisso did not reveal these significant results to the investigators and ordered Hosokawa to stop his research.

In an attempt to undermine researchers' organic mercury theory, Chisso and other parties with a vested interest that the factory remain open (including the Ministry of International Trade and Industry and the Japan Chemical Industry Association) funded research into alternative causes of the disease, other than its own waste. Later a documentarist was attacked causing him to partially lose sight in one eye and with his health affected. He died six years later but his film helped expose the reality of the damage being caused at Minamata.

At first, children affected by the waste were initially diagnosed as having cerebal palsy. More than 900 people died in agony after eating large quantities of local fish and shellfish contaminated with mercury. Thousands of others were left permanently disabled as the disease attacked their nervous system, causing blindness, seizures, and a host of sensory disorders
The number of people affected by Minamata disease in Japan is estimated to be between 50,000 and 70,000:



https://www.google.com/imgres?q=minamata disease in japan&imgurl=https://www.japantimes.co.jp/uploads/imported_images/uploads/2020/10/np_file_45620.jpeg&imgrefurl=https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/10/24/national/social-issues/minamata-disease-victims-closure/&docid=bN4glG_q0HLy0M&tbnid=LsTGrlHBVeHtSM&vet=12ahUKEwii7s7N4bKKAxUWxTgGHd_PEzYQM3oECGUQAA..i&w=2830&h=1980&hcb=2&ved=2ahUKEwii7s7N4bKKAxUWxTgGHd_PEzYQM3oECGUQAA

 
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Evidently you must feel the regulatory system is being ignored. I doubt that very much. The government is totally in charge. I'm guessing they are smarter now than they were in 1908. Think about Japan in 1908 and 2024. Completely different world there.
 
Evidently you must feel the regulatory system is being ignored. I doubt that very much. The government is totally in charge. I'm guessing they are smarter now than they were in 1908. Think about Japan in 1908 and 2024. Completely different world there.
Perhaps but the disease was not identified until 1965. The next ten years are referred to as "ten years of silence" as nothing was done. A final verdict setting responsibility and giving compesation to victims was not reached until 1973.

A worldwide tradition continues with companies passing the buck when it comes to profit being impacted. In Australia, for example, it was not until 2006 that an asbestos injuries compensation fund was established even though it had been established in the 1940s that asbestos was linked to cancer. And it was not until 2018 that an enquiry found that the company James Hardy had pocketed profits and had a responsibility to pay compensation to health damaged employees. In the meantime the company tried to limit payouts by setting up a fund that soon ran dry and setting up a new holding company in the Netherlands and severing ties with its Australian subsidiaries.

Between 1982 and 2016, 16,679 Australians were diagnosed with malignant mesothelioma, a rare and aggressive cancer caused by asbestos exposure:
 
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It seems some people are still in denial about the runoff of the deadly radioactive waste from Fukushima, and the asbestos poisoning. Yes the government makes mistakes now! They are only smarter at ignoring the problem! while taking bribes through lobbying. It shouldn't have to take so many years to admit the problem. Corruption at its finest!
 
fastpitch17 "Japan has a prolific fishing industry and it would be crazy to think anyone there would even entertain the thought of doing it any harm."

Perhaps it is not so much entertaining the thought of doing harm much as easily ignoring the potential of causing harm and then covering up when profit is threatened. Remember Minamata?

In 1908, the Chisso Corporation first opened a chemical factory in Minamata, Kumamoto Prefecture, located on the west coast of the southern island of Kyūshū. The waste products resulting from the manufacture of chemicals were released into Minamata Bay through the factory wastewater. From around 1950 onward, cats had been seen to have convulsions, go mad, and die. Locals called it the "cat dancing disease", owing to their erratic movement.[2] Crows had fallen from the sky, seaweed no longer grew on the sea bed, and fish floated dead on the surface of the sea.

Chisso refused to co-operate with a research team set up to determine the cause. It withheld information on its industrial processes. The Chisso factory's hospital director, Hajime Hosokawa,carried out own experiments into Minamata disease in July 1959. Food to which factory wastewater had been added was fed to healthy cats. Seventy-eight days into the experiment, cats exhibited symptoms of Minamata disease and pathological examinations confirmed a diagnosis of organic mercury poisoning. Chisso did not reveal these significant results to the investigators and ordered Hosokawa to stop his research.

In an attempt to undermine researchers' organic mercury theory, Chisso and other parties with a vested interest that the factory remain open (including the Ministry of International Trade and Industry and the Japan Chemical Industry Association) funded research into alternative causes of the disease, other than its own waste. Later a documentarist was attacked causing him to partially lose sight in one eye and with his health affected. He died six years later but his film helped expose the reality of the damage being caused at Minamata.

At first, children affected by the waste were initially diagnosed as having cerebal palsy. More than 900 people died in agony after eating large quantities of local fish and shellfish contaminated with mercury. Thousands of others were left permanently disabled as the disease attacked their nervous system, causing blindness, seizures, and a host of sensory disorders
The number of people affected by Minamata disease in Japan is estimated to be between 50,000 and 70,000:



https://www.google.com/imgres?q=minamata disease in japan&imgurl=https://www.japantimes.co.jp/uploads/imported_images/uploads/2020/10/np_file_45620.jpeg&imgrefurl=https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/10/24/national/social-issues/minamata-disease-victims-closure/&docid=bN4glG_q0HLy0M&tbnid=LsTGrlHBVeHtSM&vet=12ahUKEwii7s7N4bKKAxUWxTgGHd_PEzYQM3oECGUQAA..i&w=2830&h=1980&hcb=2&ved=2ahUKEwii7s7N4bKKAxUWxTgGHd_PEzYQM3oECGUQAA


I can't believe someone could compare the harmful effects of a nuclear power plant meltdown, to wind turbines falling, or solar panels shattering! Yes they would all be damaged by an earthquake, or tsunami, but the difference in long term damage, is in no way comparable.
They probable thought Fukushima was a safe place to build also. This still is denying the possible extremely harmful effects in the long run to the sea-life, and the people that consume it later.
Yes the immediate damage and deaths were caused by the Tsunami, but the long term effects, will not be known for years to come!
 
Looking out the window wearing my motor helmet to check to see if the sky is falling. Nope, not my sky.
 
Looking out the window wearing my motor helmet to check to see if the sky is falling. Nope, not my sky.
I know, right? Maybe better to just wear it all the time. Some of the roofs aren't very strong here. First place I stayed in almost hit my wife twice with debris falling strong enough to break through the thin plywood. I put a sheet of metal over the roof in the bed room so I couldn't get "attacked" in my sleep.
 

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