EV in Indonesia

[centurion]

Time, gentlemen, please
The sceptics are all talking about today's issues, while the fans are talking about how great everything is.
Reality says EV cars are too expensive and still suffer from a lot of problems, but electric bikes are getting to be pretty much usable .
The only things that are both cheap and will do the job they are designed are lead acid battery e-bikes.
I believe the future will see EVs become far more useful, and prices will fall in line with ICE cars. They need more time.

BYD Seal in Indonesia is selling for 600 million. In China they are sold for 300 million (bellow 20.000 USD). I think BYD makes a nice profit here, and if strong sales fades, they will just lower the price. Price of these cars is getting below internal combustion engine cars, maintenance is basically zero, taxes are low, and consumption in trafic jams is ineligible.

 

[Hawk256]

If you want to spend a lot of money for almost no return. Here is project for EV fans who really want to stick it to the system.

 

[Hawk256]

Are we still sure we are all in on EVs?

Workers Are Dying in the EV Industry’s ‘Tainted’ City

In Indonesia, sickness and pollution plague a sprawling factory complex that supplies the world with crucial battery materials.

www.wired.com

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Are we still sure we are all in on EVs?

Workers Are Dying in the EV Industry’s ‘Tainted’ City

In Indonesia, sickness and pollution plague a sprawling factory complex that supplies the world with crucial battery materials.

www.wired.com

The article is over 2 years old, but I guess poor working conditions aren't something new here.

 

[Hawk256]

The article is over 2 years old, but I guess poor working conditions aren't something new here.

Plenty of articles out there about how poisoned the whole area is now as well. Worried about radiation poisoning the environment or plastic poisoning the environment but completely over look the most critical part of EVs and the damage they are doing.

 

[jstar]

Sure Hawk. Luckily, unlike the mines, the alternative of pumping up oil has no significant negative environmental impacts. There’s no pollution, no habitat destruction, and no risks to wildlife and human health. Oil drilling doesn’t release pollutants into the air, soil, and water, causing various health problems and degrading ecosystems. Not to speak about the non existence of oil spills.

Blinkers (horse blinders) anyone?

 

[Bob]

Sure Hawk. Luckily, unlike the mines, the alternative of pumping up oil has no significant negative environmental impacts. There’s no pollution, no habitat destruction, and no risks to wildlife and human health. Oil drilling doesn’t release pollutants into the air, soil, and water, causing various health problems and degrading ecosystems. Not to speak about the non existence of oil spills.

Blinkers (horse blinders) anyone?

Oil and gas extraction is far less destructive to the land, fresh water, and marine resources than surface mining and ore processing as practiced in Indonesia. Have a look at how nickel mining and smelting has blessed the environment in Halmahera and Sulawesi and what coal and tin mining has done for Kaltim and Riau.

 

[Hawk256]

Sure Hawk. Luckily, unlike the mines, the alternative of pumping up oil has no significant negative environmental impacts. There’s no pollution, no habitat destruction, and no risks to wildlife and human health. Oil drilling doesn’t release pollutants into the air, soil, and water, causing various health problems and degrading ecosystems. Not to speak about the non existence of oil spills.

Blinkers (horse blinders) anyone?

Bob pretty much said what needed to be said. Also I never claimed that there was not pollution with gas or oil just that putting all your eggs in one basket for something that might not be better in the long run isn't a good idea.

 

[jstar]

Oil and gas extraction is far less destructive to the land, fresh water, and marine resources than surface mining and ore processing as practiced in Indonesia. Have a look at how nickel mining and smelting has blessed the environment in Halmahera and Sulawesi and what coal and tin mining has done for Kaltim and Riau.

Bob pretty much said what needed to be said.

Not quite. Something many people do is only look at the process, and forget that metals etc. can be recycled and reused. If you burn something, it’s gone. And it’s very debatable if the effect of mining is worse than oil spills etc., even scientists don‘t agree. I don’t even want to go into the coal mining discussion, that’s better done here.

This is a rather good article that acknowledges the drawbacks of mining but also asserts that in the end, it makes no sense to burn fossil fuels.

Is mining critical minerals better than extracting fossil fuels?

Extracting resources from the Earth always comes with costs. As we race toward a cleaner, greener future, there is a risk of repeating the abuses of mining for coal and other fossil fuels.

grist.org

Also there are different types of batteries which change the equation, esp. for a country like Indonesia.

A Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) battery does not contain nickel. LFP batteries use iron and phosphate as their cathode material, unlike traditional lithium-ion batteries that often include nickel, cobalt, and aluminum.

Big players in the BEV market as BYD, Tesla, Ford, Rivian, GM, Stellantis and Geely already use these batteries. And the Volkswagen group will use them in all their future electric vehicles.