DON'T PANIC.... well, maybe a little bit.

R Cameron

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apparently the Indonesian govt is trialing a Russian vaccine
Ask for a source for that claim. Indonesia is a part of WHO vaccine trials, I have not seen any news of Russia's vaccine being a part of WHO trials or tested or used in Indonesia, or any other country for that matter.
 

Jaime C

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Ask for a source for that claim. Indonesia is a part of WHO vaccine trials, I have not seen any news of Russia's vaccine being a part of WHO trials or tested or used in Indonesia, or any other country for that matter.
I’m pretty sure the Russian vaccine is being used in at least Russia...
 

dafluff

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This is an excellent Twitter thread (and full paper is linked) on the current status of various vaccines in development, and their early results.

Some takeaways:

1. The vaccine the Indonesian gov't is betting on has a neutralization titer in the 1:30 - 1:60 range (higher is better). The 50% protective titer for influenza is 1:40.

2. Vaccines in development will have much lesser efficacy in older (59+) people.

3. The more advanced vaccines are more effective but may never be available for poor countries due to storing requirement (must be kept frozen).

4. Inactivated vaccines (the less advanced ones, incl. the one trialed in Indonesia) will provide some protection in the lungs, but not in the upper respiratory tract. Meaning that people will be protected but not immune, and will still be able to spread the disease (similar to flu vaccines). So no herd immunity.


 

Balifrog

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Vaccines are not going to solve the problem at short / medium term.
I mean, you won't have the whole world population vaccinated any time soon, if ever.

So, we better adapt, learn to live with this C19, and go on with our lives same as before.
The panic reaction by most governments and the sheep (herd) mentality by most people are NOT the right answer.
I didn't change anything in my livestyle. Anyway, at the end we all die from something. So better enjoy it till that day.
Ok, off to the beach for a glass of red wine.
If one has to go down, at least do it in style.
 

R Cameron

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I didn't change anything in my livestyle. Anyway, at the end we all die from something. So better enjoy it till that day.
Ok, off to the beach for a glass of red wine.
If one has to go down, at least do it in style.
I agree with the whole first half of your post, but simple measures like basic social distancing and wearing masks indoors save many lives and are but a minor inconvenience. You may be ready to go down in style, but this arrogance is the kind that takes other people down with you, and that should not be your right to decide.
 

dafluff

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Vaccines are not going to solve the problem at short / medium term.
I mean, you won't have the whole world population vaccinated any time soon, if ever.

So, we better adapt, learn to live with this C19, and go on with our lives same as before.
The panic reaction by most governments and the sheep (herd) mentality by most people are NOT the right answer.
I didn't change anything in my livestyle. Anyway, at the end we all die from something. So better enjoy it till that day.
Ok, off to the beach for a glass of red wine.
If one has to go down, at least do it in style.
Vaccines will be but one tool in the fight against the pandemic. We already have some of the other tools, such as wearing masks, avoiding hand shakes, hand washing, social distancing. Unfortunately, many people are unwilling to modify their behavior and follow these simple, minimally intrusive precautions. Which is completely fine by me, if they were the only ones getting sick/dying. However their selfishness does invariably result in someone else getting sick/dying.
 

Balifrog

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Gentlemen,
I knew that would be your reaction.
Now, read your posts again plse. What do they show ? That you think only YOUR point of view is right, and that anybody who does not have the same view should be named and shamed, even worse maybe ....

May I remember we live in democracy, and freedom of movement and expression is a base of it. In my country, it's written in the constitution.
So your answer is that of blinded zealots at the best, brainwashed extremists at the worst.

We went through the same idioty 25 y ago with AIDS, that was gonna wipe out the entire planet.....
But, anyway, enjoy your day / live. I sure do enjoy mine, even surrounded by sad looking ghosts .
 

dafluff

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Gentlemen,
I knew that would be your reaction.
Now, read your posts again plse. What do they show ? That you think only YOUR point of view is right, and that anybody who does not have the same view should be named and shamed, even worse maybe ....

May I remember we live in democracy, and freedom of movement and expression is a base of it. In my country, it's written in the constitution.
So your answer is that of blinded zealots at the best, brainwashed extremists at the worst.

We went through the same idioty 25 y ago with AIDS, that was gonna wipe out the entire planet.....
But, anyway, enjoy your day / live. I sure do enjoy mine, even surrounded by sad looking ghosts .
You probably also think that 2nd hand smoke causing cancer is "an opinion". And certainly choosing to be an ignoramus is a right one has in a democracy. But even in democracies there are limits, and virtually every country, democratic or otherwise, your country included, have Covid restrictions in place.
 

Balifrog

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You probably also think that 2nd hand smoke causing cancer is "an opinion". And certainly choosing to be an ignoramus is a right one has in a democracy. But even in democracies there are limits, and virtually every country, democratic or otherwise, your country included, have Covid restrictions in place.
The voice of wisdom commands me to answer "no further comments".

But I stick to my opinion.
 

R Cameron

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May I remember we live in democracy, and freedom of movement and expression is a base of it.
Some people say there should be no seatbelt or helmet laws, you have the right to endanger yourself. I don't agree, but I understand the point.
But not changing your behavior in a pandemic is not akin to going without a seatbelt or helmet, it is akin to drunk driving, because you are endangering (infringing on the rights) of everyone around you.
 

Balifrog

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Some people say there should be no seatbelt or helmet laws, you have the right to endanger yourself. I don't agree, but I understand the point.
But not changing your behavior in a pandemic is not akin to going without a seatbelt or helmet, it is akin to drunk driving, because you are endangering (infringing on the rights) of everyone around you.
Replace the word "pandemic" by "panic" ....
 

dafluff

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Imagine in Sept 2020 being called a blinded zealot for suggesting people to wear mask and wash hands. :ROFLMAO: :rolleyes:
 

Balifrog

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Imagine in Sept 2020 being called a blinded zealot for suggesting people to wear mask and wash hands. :ROFLMAO: :rolleyes:
Well, nuclear is the most dangerous thing , well at least one of the most dangerous.

Now have a look at the 3 pictures, all taken by the crazy frog in his young days. Distance around 15 to 20 nautical miles. Look at our "dresscode" ...
And you kow what ? We aint all dead....
And no, we are not "super heroes", just guys doing our job. And enjoying it. And 45 years later, still able to enjoy a Bintang on the beach without mask....

20200929_151500_copy_1024x1365.jpg
20200929_151326_copy_1024x1365.jpg
20200929_151536_copy_1024x1365.jpg


Edit : And you want I wear a mask when going for a Bintang in Sanur because of a fecking hypothetical virus because TV told me so ?
 
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ChrisTex

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Having read the last few posts, I am trying to understand both sides so bear with me.

I hate wearing masks, but I do because unless I know the person(s), I generally don't trust those I don't know to have the same health standard such as washing your hands after using the toilet. Washing your hands is one of the easiest things to do which should be a no brainer, but it is complicated for some people(maybe they have their own reasons).

I do agree at some point, we are just going to have to get on with living. Are kids going to be having school online for the next few years until C19 is figured out? What about going to work, sports, etc...? How will we know when it is 'safe' again? Where does it end.

Now, in some cases, I think it is up to the individual to decide how far they want to go. Me personally, I will wear the mask, use hand gel, and wash my hands. I have a friend the last time I saw her, she was covered from head to toe, wearing gloves, a shower cap, and a hoodie(she looked like the old sketches of the Unabomber). That is her choice if she wants to go that route and I respect it.
 

rabbit_39

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Edit : And you want I wear a mask when going for a Bintang in Sanur because of a fecking hypothetical virus because TV told me so ?
I'm not sure whether this is going to fall on deaf ears, or perhaps it's something you haven't considered. Two reasons why I would wear a mask these days:
1. in case others are carriers of the virus without showing symptoms, I don't want to get sick. I can't afford to get sick since I need to work and earn enough moola to some day be able to o for a Bintang in Sanur
2. In case I am a carrier of the virus without showing symptoms, I don't want to get others who are vulnerable (and even those who aren't) sick.

#1 is up to you since that's our own personal decision
#2 is something we should do out of courtesy to others.

I've had friends in the medical field who have been super careful (in the US) contract the virus and passed away. She's in her early 40s, healthy, leads a healthy lifestyle, and with a happy family (two young children). I have friends here in Indonesia who have been careful with everything still contract the virus (and recovered) but lost almost a month of productive time.
 

Wisnu

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We decide to return to our normal activities as long as we are comfortable.
Understood that we are not young, higher risk, so what we have been doing are:
The transportation and accomodation has clear C19 protocol.
To use biz class flight if available and reasonable.
Wear mask in public area regardless required or not, and with N95 in confined space.
Maintain social distancing as much as we can, avoid crowd and confined space where possible.
Minimize touching public object
Bring along disinfectant gel and wash hand as frequent as possible.
Always carry thermometer and oximeter.

The first time we escaped from our home Lockdown was in August, we joined Reese's liveaboard trip.
Currently we are in Turkey, just climbed mt. Nemrut, and Suphan. Tomorrow will start to climb mt. Ararat (5137 mask).
So far very comfortable with the implementation of the protocol.
But yesterday, in the hotel, we saw a group of tourist from east Europe didnt wear mask. I complained to the hotel office who immediately told them to wear it. They reluctantly follow but this morning, I saw them again not wearing mask.
This time I told them and some of them pretend not understand.
 

Dave70

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Always carry thermometer and oximeter.
If you have time for my question... How to use oximeter? What should be the normal reading? What to do if above or below the normal range? Does it mean you need more oxygen? Does it mean you may have C19?
 

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