Discussion about expat salaries and perks as English teacher in Indonesia

[snpark]

History of the Swiss Navy

 

[pantaiema]

There are a lot of discussion around teaching English and Native speakers in Indonesia. Keep in mind, if you are a foreigner, there are legal restrictions on who can teach English in Indonesia. Only native speakers are allowed to teach English legally.

Local English teachers are typically getting paid similar to other school teachers, e.g. around IDR5m.

 

[jstar]

Only native speakers are allowed to teach English legally.

there is a clear definition, whether we like it or not:

English spoken as a first language (From U.K., U.S.A., Aus, NZ, Can, SA)

 

[Samoerai]

There are a lot of discussion around teaching English and Native speakers in Indonesia. Keep in mind, if you are a foreigner, there are legal restrictions on who can teach English in Indonesia. Only native speakers are allowed to teach English legally.

Local English teachers are typically getting paid similar to other school teachers, e.g. around IDR5m.

Doctors (GP) also starting at 5 juta, if I am informed correctly.

 

[pantaiema]

Doctors (GP) also starting at 5 juta, if I am informed correctly.

Doctors and dentists are generally civil servants employed at state hospitals, community health centre, or universities, where they train future doctors. Civil servants pay in Indonesia is determined by their rank, meaning individuals with the same rank, whether they are working as a doctor, lecturer, staff in dukcapil, or other department receive the same basic salary.

What sets doctors and dentists apart from other professions is that, in addition to their civil service duties, they often engage in private practice at private hospitals. They may also run their own practices from their homes or in strategically located clinics in the city with other doctors, typically in the late afternoon/evenings. This private practice is their primary source of income, rather than their tiny civil servant salary. They also could earn additional income through activities like recommending specific medicines or pharmacies.

Additionally, as mentioned in another thread, civil servants in Indonesia receive numerous allowances. The functional allowances for a doctor (same with professors) are higher than other professions, due to scarcity. In certain situations, such as frequent travel, especially international travel, these allowances can easily exceed their normal salary.

 

[William King]

Only native speakers are allowed to teach English legally.

Sorry, but that’s just not true. The relevant UU (I think around 2010) only states that expat teachers must have proficiency in English. The regulations then go on to define that proficiency as being demonstrated by a) being a native speaker, or b) passing a TEOIC or other such test to a certain level.

 

[jstar]

But was b) ever implemented, William? It seems they have taken the easy route with the short list of countries.

 

[William King]

Yes, b) was passed and implemented. Perhaps it’s more difficult for some schools to bother with, hence the continued racist hiring practises many schools employ.

 

[jukung11]

Does the 33 juta a month also include free tuition for children of the teacher?

It is a great salary if that is included. If not, it is a hard sell to be providing an education for others that you can't provide for your own children.

 

[pantaiema]

After your studies at University of Indonesia, you will get -depending on your study- between 5 and 8 juta per month. Exceptionally a bright IT kid might get 10 juta after his/her studies. So saying 33 is not enough for a teacher is somewhat out of place or plain populism.

The discussion about expat salaries and perks as English teacher in Indonesia will be a good discussion. But when someone is stating that earning US$24,000 a year as a teacher in Indonesia, if recruited onshore (within Indonesia), is not a respected salary is misleading. This misinformation could cause potential expat job seekers to reject offers based on unrealistic expectations.

You might see expats, such as a General Manager working for an international hotel chain in Indonesia, earning a western salary of USD 500k+ per year, or staff from well-known multinational companies in the oil and mining industries (Chevron, Vale, Freeport, etc), or international consultancy firms (McKinsey, PwC, Deloitte, AECOM, Atkins, Arup, etc), or manufacturers (GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi, etc). However, it's highly likely that these individuals are on secondment, meaning they were already working for these companies in their home countries and were sent to Indonesia to help develop the new establish branches/businesses, training local people, uphold company policies, and maintain management and cultural standards. Alternatively, they might be recruited internationally by the headhunters and not locally in Indonesia, so they compete on an international level.

I have posted a few evidence in post #29. If the originator of the post or others want to rebuff, please provide evidence or links from reputable sources, or at least well-known sources.

I think a bunch of crazy, rich expats () who live the "good" life isn't really representative.

I agree that while there are a number of wealthy expats in Indonesia, particularly those managing their own multinational businesses, working for their own family, friends, relatives businesses, but as you said it is likely they are not really a typical representative of expat lives in Indonesia. I have posted a few links example of expat lives in Indonesia from other dimension.

Excellent article about growing up as a mixed kid in Indonesia

https://indonesiaexpat.id/featured/mixed-race-children/ Since this community is surely growing, not only in Bali but elsewhere, this is a really good article showing the practical issues involved, such as: Indonesians see them as foreigners, but their "other" country sees them as Indonesians...

www.expatindo.org

Also, it is generally understood that merely self-proclaiming wealth in a forum like this does not make one rich. I am not suggesting that those who claim as such are not actually wealthy, but rather that simply making such claims does not make someone rich like making this sort of statement in a forum.

In fact, many extremely wealthy Indonesians (if not the majority) live modestly. Also, evidence from the past shows that those flaunting their lifestyles in Indonesia are often fraudsters.

Here is Michael Bambang Hartono, one of the top ten richest people in Indonesia:

Other examples of the wealthy in Indonesia:

 

[fastpitch17]

I proclaim that I am a poor expat living in a poor nation that makes me look more well to do. As for anyone else I really don't care but please, don't remind me.

 

[HappyMan]

I'd be thrilled to get 33jt a month for teaching. 30jt would be nice. In Bandung, the going rate for teachers at places like E.F. seems to be around 15jt at the moment. That is with something like 20 face hours a week. Schools like Penabur offer around 18jt to start if I'm not mistaken (gossip from a mate).

I'm willing to bet that the workload in E.F. isn't a lot lighter than what you have at a highschool either. If you are actually planning and preparing lessons thoroughly, that is. Each E.F. lesson is essentially a one-off. You prep additional materials to accompany pages 62-63 of a book. You then teach that lesson one time. It might come up again in a few months, but it might not.
Large highschools, on the other hand, tend to have as many as 9 groups (classes) of grade 10 students. You prep a lesson for group 10-A and then teach it all the way through to group 10-I. That will be a lot less prep time per lesson. You can balance it against all the paperwork and ancillary duties you'll have in a highschool... but I feel confident the E.F. teacher who plans lessons thoroughly will toil more.

As to whether you can live a peaceful life on 15jt, I know you can. I think it is more interesting though, how you can work harder and make less. Fast food employees make minimum wage to be yelled at in a crappy environment. Meanwhile, a waiter in a nice restaurant manages to buy a house and car while enjoying their work...

 

[pantaiema]

I'd be thrilled to get 33jt a month for teaching. 30jt would be nice. In Bandung, the going rate for teachers at places like E.F. seems to be around 15jt at the moment. That is with something like 20 face hours a week. Schools like Penabur offer around 18jt to start if I'm not mistaken (gossip from a mate).

I'm willing to bet that the workload in E.F. isn't a lot lighter than what you have at a highschool either. If you are actually planning and preparing lessons thoroughly, that is. Each E.F. lesson is essentially a one-off. You prep additional materials to accompany pages 62-63 of a book. You then teach that lesson one time. It might come up again in a few months, but it might not.
Large highschools, on the other hand, tend to have as many as 9 groups (classes) of grade 10 students. You prep a lesson for group 10-A and then teach it all the way through to group 10-I. That will be a lot less prep time per lesson. You can balance it against all the paperwork and ancillary duties you'll have in a highschool... but I feel confident the E.F. teacher who plans lessons thoroughly will toil more.

As to whether you can live a peaceful life on 15jt, I know you can. I think it is more interesting though, how you can work harder and make less. Fast food employees make minimum wage to be yelled at in a crappy environment. Meanwhile, a waiter in a nice restaurant manages to buy a house and car while enjoying their work...

This is common knowledge. You can easily find information shared by schools or English teachers in Indonesia online, through job advertisements, or by asking a close friend willing to disclose this. Another common practice in Indonesia is that employers typically do not disclose the salary range in public job advertisements. They will ask you to contact them for further information. A few who do disclose the salary range publicly usually because they believe they offer a competitive salary. However, this practice is typically seen in local recruitment. For international recruitment, international standards apply; they usually show the salary range that successful candidates will receive to attract international potential applicants.

It's surprising if someone who have lived in Indonesia for more than a decade doesn't genuinely know this and still state that IDR33m is not a respectable salary. Such a statement could be misleading, causing potential expat job seekers living in Indonesia to reject offers based on unrealistic expectations.

 

[fastpitch17]

It's surprising if someone who have lived in Indonesia for more than a decade doesn't genuinely know this and still state that IDR33m is not a respectable salary. Such a statement could be misleading, causing potential expat job seekers living in Indonesia to reject offers based on unrealistic expectations.

I must be losing my mind. I could have sworn when I read HappyMan's post he stated that 33 juta was a great salary. Silly me for thinking I could comprehend what I read. I feel so STUPID for not reading it properly.

 

[john madden]

I must be losing my mind. I could have sworn when I read HappyMan's post he stated that 33 juta was a great salary. Silly me for thinking I could comprehend what I read. I feel so STUPID for not reading it properly.

I think pantaiema is continuing his gripe with snpark even though old mate hasn't been sighted for a while. Whatever, it's quite unedifying.

 

[fastpitch17]

I think pantaiema is continuing his gripe with snpark even though old mate hasn't been sighted for a while. Whatever, it's quite unedifying.

What's a boy to do when someone can't even quote the target of the reply?

 

[john madden]

What's a boy to do when someone can't even quote the target of the reply?

It sure makes sniping from the sidelines more challenging.

 

[Bad_azz]

What's a boy to do when someone can't even quote the target of the reply?

I find hitting that "ignore" choice is useful , especially for those who rattle on and say nothing

 

[Hawk256]

I find hitting that "ignore" choice is useful , especially for those who rattle on and say nothing

I undertand that choice but even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes and may actually make a post that is at least entertaining.

 

[pantaiema]

Another recent statistical figure of salary in Indonesia reported by CNBC,
Average NET salary
in Indonesia Rp. 3.178.227
In Jakarta: Rp. 5.532.624
In Central Java: Rp. 2.321.344

So, if an average local person can live on just 1/10 of Rp33m, it’s hard to understand why others, including expats, could not live comfortably on Rp33m. But as with anywhere, some people might find even Rp1b a month insufficient. However, this is not the majority, as very few people in Indonesia even an expat earn such high figures.