17 dead in u.s. high school

[Jaime C]

That’s true but some nutters use a truck or car to drive into innocent people

Yes, but the death and injured numbers are usually much lower.

 

[Davita]

That’s true but some nutters use a truck or car to drive into innocent people

Agreed...there is no perfect solution as there are nutters everywhere who have access to machines to kill many... but there are attempts to eliminate that problem...i.e. aircraft have been used for suicide missions by crew but most airlines have resources to track those crew with unusual tendencies. They use confidential reporting system to alert the administrators. I recall, in the 1980's, using the confidential reporting system on a colleague who was behaving a little bizarre.

In Norway, another deranged person used guns to kill many but, imo, it is unparalleled the USA has so many tragic events when other countries don't...and the common denominator is access to quick-firing guns.

 

[ponyexpress]

It is very sad but even sadder to see that nothing substantial will be done to prevent recurrence. I feel like the world is watching this poor guy who falls into a hole full of turd over and over again. He knows that he will fall into it again but insists on taking the same path despite some advice to walk around it. Tragically, he wants people around him to offer sympathy every time he falls. Well, mate you want that shit really what can I do?

On a serious note, it's interesting to find out the relationship between victim's political view on gun ownership after the event? Did the shooting change their mind on a tighter gun control law?
If the buyback program will cost the US 400 billion dollar, then the money will be well spent on this program rather than earmarking nearly US 600 billion for military purposes. The number of people died of terrorist attacks are perhaps less than the number of victims from mass shootings in the US for the past 4 years.

 

[Nimbus]

I actually agree that money spent on war can be used for better things, but eliminating guns is most definitely not the top of the list. USA has no universal healthcare, so mentally ill people who can't afford the expensive health insurance has nowhere to get help (except in prison after they kill others). Affordable / free healthcare would save far more lives, I can guarantee it.

 

[Davita]

I actually agree that money spent on war can be used for better things, but eliminating guns is most definitely not the top of the list. USA has no universal healthcare, so mentally ill people who can't afford the expensive health insurance has nowhere to get help (except in prison after they kill others). Affordable / free healthcare would save far more lives, QUOTE]
I can guarantee it.[/

How can you guarantee that?
Every intelligent person understands how best to achieve medical/health care.The issue is....who will pay for it. So I'm interested in your guarantee.

 

[Nimbus]

How can you guarantee that?
Every intelligent person understands how best to achieve medical/health care.The issue is....who will pay for it. So I'm interested in your guarantee.

I'm saying that less people will die overall if we spend $400 billion in providing free healthcare instead of buying guns back. I think it was Bernie Sanders who said lack of insurance causes 45,000 premature deaths each year in USA. The number of gun fatalities in USA is about 33,000 annually, two third of which are suicides.

 

[Daniel50]

This is similar to the way a marriage license is recognized nationwide. There was a time when states who didn't issue licenses to same-sex couples nevertheless had to honor the document issued by states who did.

I'm not covinced by the chiefs' argument, because criminals don't just drop their guns when they cross from a gun-friendly state into a gun-hostile one. If you are a cop anywhere in USA, you always have to safeguard against the possibility of the suspect having a gun.

I really don't see much point in argument related to gun control in the US. It doesn't appear much will change. They indicated with allowing people to carry their concealed weapons it increases the likelihood of them being used in some capacity that is not always intended. However, I am sure gun advocates will come up with counter arguments or facts/stats to the contrary. So not much will change but I don't live there.

 

[Nimbus]

I really don't see much point in argument related to gun control in the US. It doesn't appear much will change. They indicated with allowing people to carry their concealed weapons it increases the likelihood of them being used in some capacity that is not always intended. However, I am sure gun advocates will come up with counter arguments or facts/stats to the contrary. So not much will change but I don't live there.

That's the thing, guns tend to be an emotional subject, like anything that contributes to human death. A lot of people are not even prepared to discuss it rationally, from both sides.

I'm in a unique position where I can actually see both sides, and talk about either one with real facts. I don't go "Guns! Murrica! Fuck Yeah!", but I don't go "Guns! Eeeeek! Help me!" either.

In Indonesia I would never support widespread proliferation of firearms. The rule of law is pitiful, so people like to take justice into their own hands. If you mix firearms into it, you get violent chaos. Very few people own guns, so keeping it that way is not difficult and perfectly reasonable.

In USA more than a third of the households have guns. There are actually more guns than cars here, more guns than people even. Imposing carry restrictions basically means forcing people to be helpless against criminals and crazies on the street. Felons and mentally ill people are legally prohibited from possessing firearms; if you think it stops them from owning and carrying guns, think again.

 

[Daniel50]

There are actually more guns than cars here, more guns than people even. Imposing carry restrictions basically means forcing people to be helpless against criminals and crazies on the street. Felons and mentally ill people are legally prohibited from possessing firearms; if you think it stops them from owning and carrying guns, think again.

I remember reading some article, quite a long time ago, about people being allowed to bring there firearms into Tennessee drinking places. I read some comments like " what if a criminal shows up to rob the place, at least we are armed to and can defend ourselves", "guns don't kill people people do" etc. etc. etc. but there continues to be mass shootings.......probably no connection to all the firearms, or possibly allowing more people to carry concealed weapons will help. At least that way there are more armed people waiting to defend themselves.

 

[ponyexpress]

I really don't see much point in argument related to gun control in the US. It doesn't appear much will change. They indicated with allowing people to carry their concealed weapons it increases the likelihood of them being used in some capacity that is not always intended. However, I am sure gun advocates will come up with counter arguments or facts/stats to the contrary. So not much will change but I don't live there.

Yeah what's funny is that the proponent of the gun ownership will always say that people need a good guy with the gun to fight bad guys with gun. Unfortunately, these good cowboys are always a bit late or maybe useless.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...ncountered-rampaging-gunman-article-1.3822777

 

[Nimbus]

Yeah what's funny is that the proponent of the gun ownership will always say that people need a good guy with the gun to fight bad guys with gun. Unfortunately, these good cowboys are always a bit late or maybe useless.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...ncountered-rampaging-gunman-article-1.3822777

I assume that your "always" is hyperbole rather than factual.

This youtube channel specializes in collecting videos where good guys use their guns to defend themselves and others.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsE_m2z1NrvF2ImeNWh84mw

 

[ponyexpress]

Oh okay but where were these people when Sandy Hook, Vegas and Florida shootings took place? Perhaps they must have been busy making a video for their YouTub chanel?

 

[Nimbus]

Oh okay but where were these people when Sandy Hook, Vegas and Florida shootings took place? Perhaps they must have been busy making a video for their YouTub chanel?

I didn't know you support the NRA's position that more good guys with a gun is needed, and that "gun-free zones" are bad. At the moment the best estimate of people with concealed carry license is 2%, only half of which actually carry day in and day out. This means at any given moment only one out 100 people legally have a gun on the street. If this is California or New York City, the number is maybe 1 in a million, because they very rarely issue carry license to civilians.

For Sandy Hook and Florida, it is illegal for anybody (including teachers) to carry a gun on school property, police officers excepted. The shooters managed to bring guns anyway, the no gun sticker on the door somehow didn't stop them.

For this reason some states have made it legal for teachers to carry guns, and others have enacted laws that say you can't have a gun free zone without metal detectors and armed guards to secure it. I think it's a bit much, but hey, if you think more civilians need to take up this civic responsibility, you can try to convince them.

 

[Anglian]

When I was in Chile the Airforce gave me a revolver to carry around, it was a real pain and heavy, I had it in my inside jacket pocket, the chance of getting it out in hurry without shooting myself were pretty remote

 

[waarmstrong]

Davita is acknowledging the elephant in the room. America has a mental health crisis and I don't mean the shooters, but rather the mentally deranged who control gun access law-making.

 

[Davita]

When I was in Chile the Airforce gave me a revolver to carry around, it was a real pain and heavy, I had it in my inside jacket pocket, the chance of getting it out in hurry without shooting myself were pretty remote

hahaha...me too.

The ARMY issued us RAF personnel machine-guns to help them guard the train from Singapore to Penang, during the Malayan Emergency, when the communist rebels in the jungle would raid trains en-route. Unfortunately, the Army didn't tell us how to use them and we were shit-scared to find out in case we lost our feet.

Another occasion, when supply-dropping in Borneo during Confrontation, crews were issued a revolver and 5 bullets...we figured if we crashed in the jungle we'd use them to shoot the first crew-member to go for the rations.

 

[Nimbus]

When I was in Chile the Airforce gave me a revolver to carry around, it was a real pain and heavy, I had it in my inside jacket pocket, the chance of getting it out in hurry without shooting myself were pretty remote

With hundreds of millions of pistols in circulation, there's an entire industry of gun accessories. Weapon manufacturers also routinely create concealable pistols for the civilian market.

Here's a lady with her Glock 43. It carries 6 rounds of 9mm in the magazine plus 1 in the chamber, so it's more powerful than your regular 6-shot revolver with .38 special cartridges, despite being much smaller. If a woman this size can do it, anybody can.

 

[ponyexpress]

For Sandy Hook and Florida, it is illegal for anybody (including teachers) to carry a gun on school property, police officers excepted. The shooters managed to bring guns anyway, the no gun sticker on the door somehow didn't stop them.

Here is the scenario that likely to happen when a shooter arrives at the school.

Shooter (thinking): 'Bastard! They put up a no gun sticker on the gate!' I wasted so much time to pack all these weapons and only to find this goddamn no gun sticker on the school wall.'

The shooter hurried home angrily.

Those shooters have planned their attack and I don't think 100 stickers would deter them. Imagine if they had no access to gun, you can save up the money that is used to print out those stickers, buy security devices, and hire armed guards etc.

There is an inappropriate joke about the shootings in schools: "What makes the school in the US different to other part of the world? The answer is that the schools in US have indoor shooting range!". Awful innit? But that reflects how dumb the gun politics in the US is.

The NRA's approach to gun (a good guy with gun will bring down a bad guy with gun) is similar to the US's foreign policy. Hey look that's Saddam Hussein, the bad guy with the gun! Let's deploy our military and bomb the shit out of Iraq. Oh...another bad guy with gun in Afghanistan! Quick deploy our best soldiers to defeat them. Not only did those good guys kill many 'bad guys' but they also created a massive mess. The good guys with gun can't even sort out problem in their yards. Pathetic.

 

[scouser59]

Sad business , a redneck obsession , lets wait for next massacre , coming soon im sure .

 

[ponyexpress]

Sad business , a redneck obsession , lets wait for next massacre , coming soon im sure .

Yep and those buffoons will say: it's not about gun. Another story of a guy falling into the hole of turd.