17 dead in u.s. high school

[steveandpenny]

17 more children have been gunned down in a high school in Florida. Just wondering how many times this will go on in the states till some kind of real gun control becomes a reality.
It wasn' someone in the states illegally , it wasn' a Muslim terrorist, it was another gun owning America. Just like every other school shooter, the Vegas hotel shooter, the movie shooter and on and on.
Fuck me gun rights were put in action when you needed a gun to protect yourself from wild animals , Indians (let' not get into that) , there was no standing army to speak of, and no police men. Well none of them are a issue now. Guns are used for road rage, school shootings and to resolve arguments when drunk, oh and for shooting a deer so you can keep the head on the wall.

 

[LRB]

I don't know much about the American constitution but I really don't understand the cultural ties/relationships/associations that Americans have with their guns. In the UK we had Dunblane in 1996 and since then I think gun control has been quite tight. I was 11 when that happened so my knowledge of the event and it's impact on gun controls is somewhat limited. But after that event I think gun laws became much stricter. I believe there was a similar situation in Australia that resulted in similar controls being put in place there.

I agree with your position and please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that as soon as Americans are faced with the gun control debate, there is an influential minority who frame the discussion as an attack on their civil liberties. I'm not sure that an outright ban is necessary but stricter control would help I think. Maybe measures like powerful rifles being kept on hunting lodges and ammunition being kept locked in safes in separate rooms (a measure for shotgun ownership in the UK), might help to reduce the access that gun owners have to their guns when they are drunk and what not.

Ultimately, the U.S. has had a significant number of these attacks (Columbine and Virginia Tech as well as Las Vegas, this one, the movie theater one that come to mind off the top of my head). There is significant evidence to point to the problem, I guess it's just a question of how many of these massacres it's going to take before the weight of mass death tips the metaphorical scales to allow for a discussion of safety versus 'civil liberties'.

 

[scouser59]

Sorry for the victims , unfortunately the sad story will continue in the US and they will do will do nothing about it !

So I wait for the next massacre of the innocents .

 

[Jamu]

Even if some local American jerk killed 1,000 kindergarten children in cold blood with a military grade automatic rifle, things won't ever change. American politics is controlled by the gun lobby, ie, the NRA. Their answer is more, and more powerful, guns to keep society 'safe', not less. With its ever increasing domestic gun violence, devastating opioid crisis and a political system controlled by corporations and corrupt vested interests, America is no example of a well run civil society. Let's not forget that when grumbling about how bad this or that is in Indonesia - things are actually worse in America...

 

[William King]

Oh no...

 

[Nimbus]

Very sad indeed. Unfortunately there is no political will to spend the $150 billion necessary to buy back all guns in civilian possession, nor amend the constitution to make it possible legally.

 

[waarmstrong]

American idiocy as an apology, an excuse for the many ignored problems in Indonesia. Seems the NRA is not the only entity with a lunatic fringe agenda.

 

[Nimbus]

Even if some local American jerk killed 1,000 kindergarten children in cold blood with a military grade automatic rifle, things won't ever change. American politics is controlled by the gun lobby, ie, the NRA. Their answer is more, and more powerful, guns to keep society 'safe', not less. With its ever increasing domestic gun violence, devastating opioid crisis and a political system controlled by corporations and corrupt vested interests, America is no example of a well run civil society. Let's not forget that when grumbling about how bad this or that is in Indonesia - things are actually worse in America...

I wouldn't call it worse than Indonesia. Western Europe is likely better in many respects than USA, but Indonesia has a long way to go.

Most houses here have no security bars in the windows, and a lot of folks still don't bother locking their front door or their car. While the risk of getting shot is higher in USA, it is still not a considerable danger (outside rough areas of the city). Everybody I know in Indonesia has been burglarized at least once, and scammed at least twice, with no meaningful action taken by the police. Effectively I have more rights in USA than in Indonesia, even though theoretically Indonesia should provide more. My rights in Indonesia are upheld haphazardly by a few, while in USA I can count on getting justice in most cases.

 

[Bad_azz]

As far as I am aware, the UK didn't "buy back" weapons- they made rules, then had an amnesty period for people to take them into the cops.

 

[ponyexpress]

I reckon the world is getting tired of hearing mass shooting in the US. It happens nearly every year and nothing won't change. Politicians will say something and then offer their condolences. After two weeks things go back to normal and we just wait until another shooting take place again. Pathetic cycle really.

 

[Nimbus]

As far as I am aware, the UK didn't "buy back" weapons- they made rules, then had an amnesty period for people to take them into the cops.

UK established a £150 million fund to compensate handgun owners, collecting 162,000 weapons. That's an average of £926 ($1300) per gun, which is twice the price I use for USA ($500). The most common handgun here is a Glock, costing roughly $500 used.

At UK compensation level, it would cost USA close to $400 billion.

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/firearms-control/greatbritain.php

As a comparison, the entire state budget for Indonesia in 2018 is $155.4 billion.

 

[Jaime C]

I reckon the world is getting tired of hearing mass shooting in the US. It happens nearly every year and nothing won't change. Politicians will say something and then offer their condolences. After two weeks things go back to normal and we just wait until another shooting take place again. Pathetic cycle really.

Every year? More like every month, or even weekly sometimes. It’s so very sad.

I’m very tired of all the senseless loss with these shootings. Severely limiting assault rifles would help quite a bit. Better mental health access, and doing something early on when people display violent tendencies would be beneficial as well.

 

[Anglian]

Well we in UK cannot be too smug as we don’t have mass shootings, but we do at the moment have an epidemic of stabbings particularly in a section of our society,

 

[Daniel50]

I recently watched a News Magazine show and they discussed something being pushed through in the US. It is that you will be allowed to carry a concealed weapon anywhere in the US. Prior you could only carry it in the state in which it was issued but this would allow you to carry it across state lines and anywhere in the US. The report showed different police chiefs in eg. New York etc. being opposed to it as it would add certain levels of uncertainty in their jobs and they believe increase the potential for problems. The person defending it framed it as not much different then a drivers licence which you would be allowed to use/carry anywhere in the US. The show made it seem like it will probably go through.

 

[waarmstrong]

I am hopeful, but not optimistic, that America will meaningfully reform its insane gun laws.

 

[Nimbus]

I recently watched a News Magazine show and they discussed something being pushed through in the US. It is that you will be allowed to carry a concealed weapon anywhere in the US. Prior you could only carry it in the state in which it was issued but this would allow you to carry it across state lines and anywhere in the US. The report showed different police chiefs in eg. New York etc. being opposed to it as it would add certain levels of uncertainty in their jobs and they believe increase the potential for problems. The person defending it framed it as not much different then a drivers licence which you would be allowed to use/carry anywhere in the US. The show made it seem like it will probably go through.

This is similar to the way a marriage license is recognized nationwide. There was a time when states who didn't issue licenses to same-sex couples nevertheless had to honor the document issued by states who did.

I'm not covinced by the chiefs' argument, because criminals don't just drop their guns when they cross from a gun-friendly state into a gun-hostile one. If you are a cop anywhere in USA, you always have to safeguard against the possibility of the suspect having a gun.

 

[Davita]

According to an AOL report on the shooter's 'instagram account' he has pictured himself as an American hero wearing Trumps' MAGA hat and a USA flag bandana...
In addition they report......"Notably, a white supremacist organization called the Republic of Florida admitted on Thursday that Cruz was associated with the group, according to the Anti-Defamation League."
I've no doubt the WH spokesidjit Sarah 'Huckleberry' will Trump out her 'Fake News' slogan. (sic)

 

[Anglian]

There have been 18 gun incidents at schools in the US this year so far,it’s very odd that an 18 year old can be a gun in Florida but not a beer, very odd

 

[Davita]

Well we in UK cannot be too smug as we don’t have mass shootings, but we do at the moment have an epidemic of stabbings particularly in a section of our society,

That is true.... but USA has mass killings that a guy with a knife couldn't achieve.
All countries have people who are mentally deranged; political tyrants; religious fanatics; angry, drunk or drugged individuals....but in other countries those people do not have such easy access to guns or weapons that can cause such mass murder.

 

[Anglian]

That is true.... but USA has mass killings that a guy with a knife couldn't achieve.
All countries have people who are mentally deranged; political tyrants; religious fanatics; angry, drunk or drugged individuals....but in other countries those people do not have such easy access to guns or weapons that can cause such mass murder.

That’s true but some nutters use a truck or car to drive into innocent people