DON'T PANIC.... well, maybe a little bit.

[harryopal1]

Reported today by the Melbourne newspaper, The Age.


"Anxiety over diplomatic exemptions intensified within the health ministry when five family members of two Indonesian diplomats were diagnosed with COVID-19 after arriving in Sydney on September 30."

 

[serious_fun]

What is the actual number of deaths in Indonesia for those who tested positive for SARS-COV-2 and did not have comorbidities?

 

[dafluff]

What is the actual number of deaths in Indonesia for those who tested positive for SARS-COV-2 and did not have comorbidities?

This information is not available as far as I know. Why are you asking for this twice in this thread?

 

[R Cameron]

What is the actual number of deaths in Indonesia for those who tested positive for SARS-COV-2 and did not have comorbidities?

I don't think anybody knows. The actual deaths with Covid are certainly unknown. And for those that actually tested positive, often medical records will not be good enough to establish what comorbidities may exist.

Do you have a particular point or curiosity for your asking?

 

[serious_fun]

This information is not available as far as I know. Why are you asking for this twice in this thread?

I bumped up my Q because nobody answered the 1st time.

Why are you asking why I'm asking?

 

[serious_fun]

I don't think anybody knows. The actual deaths with Covid are certainly unknown. And for those that actually tested positive, often medical records will not be good enough to establish what comorbidities may exist.

Do you have a particular point or curiosity for your asking?

Some other countries, as you probably know, are beginning to publish data that indicate that a very small % of deaths previously attributed to SARS-Cov-2 are actually due solely to SARS-Cov-2.


Indonesia, as of this post, claims 11,677 deaths from SARS-Cov-2. Is there no data in Indonesia that reveals if comorbidities were present?

Thanks for your reply.

 

[snpark]

No because Muslims are buried same day and I doubt any of them had a full post mortem that might reveal a heart liver lung kidney etc infection or failure.
Basically die of a heart attack and cough on your deathbed and you died from corona.

 

[dafluff]

I bumped up my Q because nobody answered the 1st time.

Why are you asking why I'm asking?

Because as a moderator I wanted to know whether your double post is in error.

 

[gemima]

Some other countries, as you probably know, are beginning to publish data that indicate that a very small % of deaths previously attributed to SARS-Cov-2 are actually due solely to SARS-Cov-2.


Indonesia, as of this post, claims 11,677 deaths from SARS-Cov-2. Is there no data in Indonesia that reveals if comorbidities were present?

Thanks for your reply.

With the standard of diets, healthcare, horrible air pollution/ widespread smoking here I reckon the vast majority of people over 45 probably have a comorbidity so I think your point is moot

 

[R Cameron]

Some other countries, as you probably know, are beginning to publish data that indicate that a very small % of deaths previously attributed to SARS-Cov-2 are actually due solely to SARS-Cov-2.

This is clearly true in every country and every study, and there is no reason to believe Indonesians have exceptional genetics, so there is no need for Indonesia specific statistics. However, the prevalence of comorbidities is sometimes used to try and diminish the significance of this virus, I hope that is not your implication. The list of comorbitities is quite extensive and it is certainly not a case of, "well they would have died soon anyway."

 

[JoePel]

This information is not available as far as I know. Why are you asking for this twice in this thread?

Some people post comments which come across as very rude.
Not surprising that it appears the same people post.

 

[ChrisTex]

Some people post comments which come across as very rude.
Not surprising that it appears the same people post.

Pot meet Kettle.

 

[serious_fun]

No because Muslims are buried same day and I doubt any of them had a full post mortem that might reveal a heart liver lung kidney etc infection or failure.
Basically die of a heart attack and cough on your deathbed and you died from corona.

Thanks.

 

[harryopal1]

So detectives Serious Fun and Snpark, it's beginning to sound like Covid might not be guilty of all the deaths. So where does this leave us?

(Just been watching a 1953 British crime drama film. I figure we've got to pin the rap on someone? Maybe its another giant conspiracy. The CIA trying to frame the Chinese? Trump? No, that's too obvious. But there's someone, somewhere keeping us in the dark...... but who?)

 

[snpark]

I believe it's a deadly virus. Dangerous. Etc. But I think very overhyped for some reason since dengue malaria typhoid etc kills far more people and it seems as long as you are fit you can survive. Seems more like a nasty pneumonia. Lots of victims had other ailments too. And do they really do a coroners report on every death? Impossible.

So yes an infectious deadly disease. But I think more damage caused by closing economy etc for 6 months.

And I'm not some tinfoil hat conspiracy qanon weirdo. That's just my personal opinion.

I haven't bothered to have a test but I wear a mask when I go out out of respect and an abundance of caution.

Basic hygiene and common sense is all you need.

 

[Balifrog]

Basic hygiene and common sense is all you need

I didn't wait the Covid mania to know that....

 

[Burungkecil]

Just curious Burungkecil or anybody who might be able to answer....(or maybe point me to the right direction)
1. Getting a swab test at your local Puskesmas. I heard this can be done free of charge?
2. IF the test turned out positive, getting the referral letter from Puskesmas is necessary to admit yourself to a place like Wisma Atlet Kemayoran (or government appointed treatment hospitals?)
3. The alternative places you mentioned like Tzu Chi...I would think it won't be reimbursed by the government?

I just had a quick read and
1.Yes, it seems you can get a free swab test at your Puskesmas. If you would prefer to do it privately it seems the fee is fixed at a maximum of Rph 900,000.
2. A letter is needed from the Puskesmas or hospital at which you tested before you will be admitted to Wisma Atlet or one of the other places for isolation.
3. I'm 99% certain that patients at the private places I listed receive zero financial help from the government.

Just to add that the Ministry of Finance has fixed the fee the government will pay hospitals at around Rph 12 million per day for a Covid-19 patient in an ICU and around Rph 16 million per day for a Covid-19 patient on a ventilator in an ICU. Not cheap!

If you're happy to use the state system, make sure your BPJS contributions are up to date via the Mobile JKN app in Play Store.
Coincidentally, we received a notification from BPJS last week that we were in arrears because in January we paid up for the whole year and they then changed the monthly fee twice.

 

[dafluff]

But I think very overhyped for some reason since dengue malaria typhoid etc kills far more people.

You keep making this claim, so I'm gonna ask you to back it up. As far as I can find, Malaria "officially" killed 47 people in Indonesia in 2017 according to WHO. They also claim an estimate of 2700 actual deaths. Also 70% of Indonesia is Malaria free.

Dengue killed 493 in 2017, 344 in 2018 according to the Indonesian Ministry of Health.

Covid "officially" killed 11,800 in Indonesia so far, with estimates of actual deaths running between 2 to 4 times more than that.

Also important to note that both diseases are mosquito transmitted, which is reasonably preventable (mosquito repellent, fogging, mosquito nets, etc). Not at all comparable to a human-to-human transmissible respiratory disease.

I couldn't easily find a source for Indonesian typhoid deaths, however WHO says worldwide it kills about 150k/year. So that's 15% of what Covid has done so far this year, with 2+ months to go.

 

[centurion]

@dafluff
I don't know did you had dengue, but If you are in dengue infected area it is very easy to get it and not much help about it. Forget about repellents, nets and other preventions, they do not work if there are no communal measures-drying water tanks every 7 days to stop the reproduction cycle of the mosquito, fogging etc. In the infected area, it is far more transmissive than COVID and far more dangerous.

The truth is that Indonesian medicine is very proficient in the treatment of the disease-I acknowledge them that, so not many deaths. Without hospital treatment, your chances of survival are 80%, with treatment 99%, far lower than COVID. Everybody in my family had dengue, including me.

 

[gemima]

I think Snpark is mostly correct - in the majority of cases COVID is just like a bad respiratory illness. However, it is much worse in a small subset of people (some surprisingly can be young - many are older with comorbidities we still dont undersand enough about the virus to know why it affects some worse than others). The issue is that when it adversely affects certain people they can end up very sick and in hospital and no country in the world can cope with the amounts of people it hits when it spreads widely. When hospitals are full of people with COVID they cant function properly for other treatments and it creates a huge mess.
The fact is that Indonesian health care can cope with Dengue and Malaria mostly. But when you add uncontrolled COVID into the mix a lot of people will die from just not being able to access the care they need.