The Uyghur and China discussion thread

[Shadrach]

I have to be honest here. The ipad idea is rubbish. A cheap Android A9+ will do everything schoolkids need, but at a fraction of the cost.
As for the rest, the idea of educating kids instead of blowing them up seems to be, in general, a good idea.

Yes, you right about the iPad being overly expensive. That's always been a problem for me learning how to use computers. Because of the competition between Apple and Microsoft they developed different operating systems. It's too bad, because I really don't have any favoritism to one company or the other. Since I've always used Apple, I learned it's operating system. That's too bad, because when I need to use a Microsoft Android system computer, I don't have a clue how to operate the Computer.
I have heard from People, that the Apple operating system doesn't crash as much as the Android system. I find the Apple system easier to use. I wish they weren't so expensive, so Everyone could have one if they chose!

 

[marcus]

... The ipad idea is rubbish. A cheap Android A9+ will do everything schoolkids need, but at a fraction of the cost ...

As some people don't know , below are Apple's and Xiaomi's suggested prices (for new tablets & available today) just for an easier comparison (but you will find discounted prices in many Indonesian stores) :

From https://www.apple.com/id/buy/?ipad , which suggests to buy at iBox or Digimap

Apple iPad cheapest 11 inch , Rp 6 million (at iBox)​

From https://www.mi.co.id/id/product-list/tablets/pad/ ,

Xiaomi Redmi Pad SE cheapest 11 inch , Rp 2 million​

By the way I bought the above Xiaomi tablet for Rp1.8 million , few months ago .

 

[marcus]

... That's always been a problem for me learning how to use computers.

It is still worth learning .

I myself use the computer a lot more than the smartphone . I only use my Android phone/tablet for functions that banks/shopping platforms/companies are only allowing in Android/iOS apps .

... Since I've always used Apple, I learned it's operating system ... when I need to use a Microsoft Android system computer, I don't have a clue how to operate the Computer.

There is not much usability difference between macOS , Windows OS , Linux OS , Android OS , Chrome OS , ...

I have heard from People, that the Apple operating system doesn't crash as much as the Android system ...

I don't know about that , but if true , the difference is not significant .
I use computers (Windows at first then Linux now) since 25 years ago , and Android since around 10 years ago , never had any relevant problem .
The only problem I had/have is that sometimes the computer or smartphone freeze (probably because I only have the cheapest ones with 2GB RAM memory , and so after a long time using them , the memory has/had no more space to operate) . The solution is simple , clean the RAM if possible , otherwise I just cut the power and start again .

 

[Hawk256]

As some people don't know , today's price :
From macstore.id ,

Apple iPad Pro M2 2022(year of release) 11 inch 128 GB Wifi , Rp 13 million​

From xiaomi.official.id ,

Xiaomi Redmi Pad SE 11 inch 128 GB WiFi (released in 2023) , Rp 2 million​

You are (as the saying goes) comparing Apples and Oranges. The iPad Pro M2 is one of the most expensive tablets made and you are comparing it to one of cheapest non-generic ones. You can can a base model iPad for closer to 5.5 million and it is not made from plastic. Metal quality construction with a quality screen that it much easier on the eyes.

 

[Hawk256]

Yes, you right about the iPad being overly expensive. That's always been a problem for me learning how to use computers. Because of the competition between Apple and Microsoft they developed different operating systems. It's too bad, because I really don't have any favoritism to one company or the other. Since I've always used Apple, I learned it's operating system. That's too bad, because when I need to use a Microsoft Android system computer, I don't have a clue how to operate the Computer.
I have heard from People, that the Apple operating system doesn't crash as much as the Android system. I find the Apple system easier to use. I wish they weren't so expensive, so Everyone could have one if they chose!

Microsoft doesn't own or make Android. Android is owned and made by Google.

 

[marcus]

You are (as the saying goes) comparing Apples and Oranges. The iPad Pro M2 is one of the most expensive tablets made ...

Sorry , I didn't know (looked for a similar release date and only at that site , as I thought it was the official Apple website) .

I revised the post (no.302) to show Apple's and Xiaomi's suggested prices in Indonesia .

 

[Hawk256]

Sorry , I didn't know (looked for a similar release date and only at that site , as I thought it was the official Apple website) .

I revised the post (no.302) to show Apple's and Xiaomi's suggested prices in Indonesia .

Keep those prices in mind when it comes to resale value as well. Xiaomi will depreciate a large amount while the Apple product will depreciate much, much less. Even the oldest working Apple products still have some value.

 

[Shadrach]

Microsoft doesn't own or make Android. Android is owned and made by Google.

Ok, But wasn't the original Android, or Microsoft computer made by Bill Gates, either during, or after the days when He and Steve Jobs were in college together? Since you are the expert in this matter, please enlighten Us! I am not an expert on the facts. I just remember a little of the story, that Steve and Bill were College roommates or friends, and worked together on building one of the first computers,

 

[marcus]

Keep those prices in mind when it comes to resale value as well. Xiaomi will depreciate a large amount while the Apple product will depreciate much, much less. Even the oldest working Apple products still have some value.

Please show us the data , so we can discuss about it .

 

[Hawk256]

Please show us the data , so we can discuss about it .

Just look at used prices on Tokopedia. Pretty straight forward across the bord. Samsung Galaxies will hold better value than Xiaomi for example but you almost can't give away a 5 year old Xiaomi. My iPhone 12 is still worth almost 5 million after all these years. A MacBook laptop from 15 years ago still has value on the used market. Compare it to a 15 year old PC.

 

[Hawk256]

Ok, But wasn't the original Android, or Microsoft computer made by Bill Gates, either during, or after the days when He and Steve Jobs were in college together? Since you are the expert in this matter, please enlighten Us! I am not an expert on the facts. I just remember a little of the story, that Steve and Bill were College roommates or friends, and worked together on building one of the first computers,

Much like other subjects, you repeat information without knowing if it's true or not. Bill Gates is the founder of Microsoft. Steve Jobs is the founder of Apple. Steve Jobs built computers in his garage, Bill Gates hired people to do the work for him. Most of the work for Microsoft Windows was stolen from Apple and they never really tried to hide it. Pretty well known in the tech circles to this day. Steve and Bill never worked tother on anything PC wise and the only time the companies worked "together" was to allow Microsoft Software to be bundled with a Macintosh. That didn't last long once Steve was back as CEO either. All of this information is available with a simple search. Maybe looking up some things for yourself and not being spoon fed everything will allow you to enrich your intelligence without someone holding your hand.

 

[Shadrach]

Much like other subjects, you repeat information without knowing if it's true or not. Bill Gates is the founder of Microsoft. Steve Jobs is the founder of Apple. Steve Jobs built computers in his garage, Bill Gates hired people to do the work for him. Most of the work for Microsoft Windows was stolen from Apple and they never really tried to hide it. Pretty well known in the tech circles to this day. Steve and Bill never worked tother on anything PC wise and the only time the companies worked "together" was to allow Microsoft Software to be bundled with a Macintosh. That didn't last long once Steve was back as CEO either. All of this information is available with a simple search. Maybe looking up some things for yourself and not being spoon fed everything will allow you to enrich your intelligence without someone holding your hand.

I'm really not interested! I remember when we were all getting into the computer age and heard rumors and stories about Steve, and Bill. I just appreciate what they did. Please share your knowledge in a way, that doesn't have to belittle others. It's not necessary and it just makes you look like a Bully! This topic was about getting computers to kids. Not about humiliating other posters!

 

[marcus]

Just look at used prices on Tokopedia ...

Very good for you , you want me to get the data to support your argument . And prices for used phones/tablets are different depending on if they are refurbished or not .

but you almost can't give away a 5 year old Xiaomi.

By the way I already bought many used Xiaomi phones , one of which I still use myself (a Redmi 6A , released in 2018 which I paid around Rp600k some 4 years ago) and still works fine , never required any maintenance service (the others my wife stopped using as they are too slow for her) .

... A MacBook laptop from 15 years ago still has value on the used market. Compare it to a 15 year old PC.

Anything usable has value , no matter how old .

I have (an around 12 years old) Toshiba laptop which is still working . My mini pc Liva (released in around 2016) , which I bought already used for around Rp800k around 5 years ago , is still working fine (I am using it right now) .

--------------------------------------------

Returning to the comparison in your post no.307 above :

I buy a Xiaomi Tab SE for Rp2 million , you buy an Apple iPad for Rp6 million .

If the Rp4 million price difference is invested , for example in Indonesian Government bond at 7% per year interest minus 10% income tax = 6.3% per year .
Lets say we both decide to sell the tablets after 4 years , when the compounded interest would reach 27.68% , on the Rp4 million difference = Rp1.07 million in interest .

Lets assume (although I doubt) you are right (about resell prices) and I sell my Xiaomi for 30% of its price (Rp600k) and you sell your Apple for 50% of its price (Rp3 million) .

So I would end up with Rp2 million - Rp600k = Rp1.4 million expense for the 4 years use of the Xiaomi's tablet.

And you end up with Rp6 million - Rp3 million + Rp1.07 million = 4.07 million expense for the 4 years use of the Apple's tablet (very near the 3 times more initial purchase cost) .

 

[Hawk256]

Very good for you , you want me to get the data to support your argument . And prices for used phones/tablets are different depending on if they are refurbished or not .

The truth is I really don't care what you think and don't intend to make an argument either way. I've put all the time I intend to put in the conversation all ready. If you want cheap garbage, that is fine but just don't compare it to the item in the bunch with the highest quality. It appears desperate.

Lets assume (although I doubt) you are right (about resell prices) and I sell my Xiaomi for 30% of its price (Rp600k) and you sell your Apple for 50% of its price (Rp3 million) .

So I would end up with Rp2 million - Rp600k = Rp1.4 million expense for the 4 years use of the Xiaomi's tablet.

And you end up with Rp6 million - Rp3 million + Rp1.07 million = 4.07 million expense for the 4 years use of the Apple's tablet (very near the 3 times more initial expense) .

I also got to use a quality product for all those years while you had something much less. Next you are going to tell me a Mercedes and Ford are worth the same?

 

[Balifrog]

also got to use a quality product for all those years while you had something much less. Next you are going to tell me a Mercedes and Ford are worth the same?

A Mercedes is more efficient to pick up girls !
Personally I never buy expensive phones, tablets or laptops.
And had only 1 new car in my life (Alfasud)

 

[marcus]

The truth is I really don't care what you think ...

Doesn't matter , I will always argue when I see something that doesn't look right , to prevent other less informed readers getting a wrong information .

and don't intend to make an argument either way ...

But you continue to argue in just one way (Apple's) .

If you want cheap garbage ...

So what Xiaomi (the world's 2nd biggest seller of smartphones) makes are all cheap garbage ? From where/who you got that ? And indirectly you are insulting the millions of people who choose to buy Xiaomi's product .

From https://www.counterpointresearch.co...worlds-no-2-smartphone-brand-in-aug/#:~:text=
Title : Xiaomi Overtakes Apple to Become World’s No. 2 Smartphone Brand in Aug: (2024)

just don't compare it to the item in the bunch with the highest quality. It appears desperate.

Let others judge who looks like desperate here .

I also got to use a quality product ....

I never said the contrary .

Next you are going to tell me a Mercedes and Ford are worth the same?

No , I will not , similarly as I did not tell that the Apple iPad and Xiaomi Pad SE are worth the same .

 

[Hawk256]

It was you who started a discussion with me in post no.307 above .

But you continue to argue in just one way (Apple's) . See below .

So what Xiaomi (the world's 3rd biggest seller of smartphones) makes are all cheap garbage ? From where/who you got that ?

I did the comparison to support John Indonesia's claim , what s the problem in making a price comparison ?

I never said the contrary .

I think you misunderstood . I never said Apple iPad and Xiaomi Pad SE are worth the same . What I wanted to support is that , an iPad is not necessary , a cheap Android is enough for schoolkids (John Indonesia's claim) . I choose Xiaomi because I know it's quality relatively well . The lowest quality new Android 11" tablets cost less than Rp800k .

Since you want to be the editor, just call my contributions an opinion piece so that I don't have to show sources for every statement I make. Me not proving or proving something doesn't change the truth. We are so far off topic on this it isn't funny but some reason it is very important to you to keep discussing. Have at it. It's really not that important to me and I'm certainly not going to write a dissertation to prove or disprove it.

 

[marcus]

Since you want to be the editor, ...

You even think you know what I want .

Me not proving or proving something doesn't change the truth.

Yes . But , in relevant subjects , by not adding a strong support data will probably make people not believe in what you say .

... some reason it is very important to you to keep discussing ...

As I said above (post no.316) : "I will always argue when I see something that doesn't look right , to prevent other less informed readers getting a wrong information" .

 

[John indonesia]

Yes, you right about the iPad being overly expensive. That's always been a problem for me learning how to use computers. Because of the competition between Apple and Microsoft they developed different operating systems. It's too bad, because I really don't have any favoritism to one company or the other. Since I've always used Apple, I learned it's operating system. That's too bad, because when I need to use a Microsoft Android system computer, I don't have a clue how to operate the Computer.
I have heard from People, that the Apple operating system doesn't crash as much as the Android system. I find the Apple system easier to use. I wish they weren't so expensive, so Everyone could have one if they chose!

I took a serious look at Apple computers and tablets but I ended up dismissing the idea as they were overpriced for not especially good specifications. Add that I use the Google ecosystem, and it didn't make any sense to buy one.
I don't use Windows most of the time as it's slow and bloated. I use a Samsung S series tablet along with Google Slides, Sheets, and Docs as my go to device. It's fast and I don't recall it ever crashing. Updates are quick and don't seem to cause any problems. It's also very light and portable but, if you add a mouse on DeX mode, the tablet allows excellent productivity.
I was in a mall some time ago when I noticed an Asus Chromebook tablet. It was pretty cheap so I decided to try one. I'm pleased with the machine but I wouldn't generally recommend buying one as they are rare over here and there are rumours Google will kill them off soon.
I tried the Chinese Harmony OS, but my first experience was disappointing.

 

[marcus]

... when I noticed an Asus Chromebook tablet. It was pretty cheap ... I'm pleased with the machine but I wouldn't generally recommend buying one as they are rare over here and there are rumours Google will kill them off soon.

I also like Chromebooks , bought 3 for my children . But in the future I may choose to buy Android tablets for them , they seem to have better cost/benefit (but I think cost/benefit is dependent on each person's situation , so my personal decisions may not be important to others) .

Regarding the possibility that Google will "kill" Chrome OS , I think that this is not different from Microsoft "killing" Windows 10 in October 2025 . The Chromebooks I bought already stopped receiving updates but they still work , similar to what happens to the Windows before Windows 10 (Windows 8 , for example) .

At https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=e , Google states "ChromeOS devices receive 10 years of updates" , which is similar to what Microsoft does to its Windows 10 .

Google also states : "Even if a Chromebook is no longer receiving automatic updates, it still comes with secure mode. The Chromebook does a self-check every time it starts up. If it detects that the system has been tampered with or corrupted in any way, typically, it will repair itself, reverting back to its original state." .