Vaccine effectiveness and Herd Immunity

[Vulgarian]

Live and let live continues to be my moto.

Again, I repeat myself for the 100th time

 

[dafluff]

Again, I repeat myself for the 100th time :
Vaccine indeed protect (in most cases) from a simple infection turning into a severe case. And hence reduces ICU occupancy, resources and deaths.
But it does not protect from getting infected. SGP, UK, Israel are the prove of this. High rate of vaccination, but still spikes and rising number of infected people.

And I repeat myself also, please present the whole picture. The 55%-45% percentage of severe cases in non-vaccinated/vaccinated is meaningless if we don't present the vaccination status of the whole population (in this case 80%).

PS : you can not speak about an overwhelming majority/minority when we are speaking about 55% vs 45%.

In fact, you can. Again you are either still not understanding the whole picture, or deliberately obfuscating. If you don't understand percentages, let's use plain, whole numbers.

A population of 1000, 800 vaccinated, 200 not. (80%, 20%)
Of them, 100 get sick. 55 from the unvaccinated group, 45 from the vaccinated group (55% vs 45%).

55/200 = 0.275, 45/800 = 0.0563. The unvaccinated group is 488% (0.275/0.0563, or almost 5x) more likely to get severe Covid than the vaccinated.

 

[ChrisTex]

CDC also changes their mind on a daily/weekly/monthly basis.

 

[centurion]

CDC also changes their mind on a daily/weekly/monthly basis.

And Colin Powell died despite being vaccinated 2x.

 

[nd_eric_77]

And Colin Powell died despite being vaccinated 2x.

An 84-year-old cancer patient dying is not proof of anything. People in the 80+ age group are going to have a higher risk of dying even if they are 2x vaccinated.

 

[centurion]

An 84-year-old cancer patient dying is not proof of anything. People in the 80+ age group are going to have a higher risk of dying even if they are 2x vaccinated.

You should work on your sense of humor. Some Monthy Python would do the job.

 

[macvert]

I doubt you have to be any kind of mathematical genius to see logic in the numbers. Even though I am fully vaccinated I may still acquire the disease with limited or no symptoms but still transmit it, I do not wish to be responsible for transmitting it to anyone, (ie an 84 year old cancer patient) who may succumb due to a blase approach of live & let die.

 

[R Cameron]

Again, I repeat myself for the 100th time :
...
But it does not protect from getting infected.

For the hundredth time: Yes. It. Does.

*Of course not 100% protection, no vaccine or medicine is 100%

 

[rabbit_39]

Note the phrase, a bit "orientated" :
"Unvaccinated patients made up 54.7% of 495 severe cases recorded in recent days, with others being vaccinated but with co-morbidities, said the MoH earlier this week. "

Which means that 45% of the severe cases were fully vaxed people .....

You're missing the other half of the sentence which you left out with ellipses. You meant to say: "Which means that 45% of the severe cases were fully vaxed people WITH CO-MORBIDITIES."....

Are we also going to ignore: "That is despite only around 1% of cases requiring oxygen supplementation and 0.1% requiring ICU care over the last 28 days, with 98.6% of cases showing mild or no symptoms."

Or this one: "That is despite only around 1% of cases requiring oxygen supplementation and 0.1% requiring ICU care over the last 28 days, with 98.6% of cases showing mild or no symptoms."

We all know that being vaccinated does not mean we can't get infected and in some cases still have symptoms and in very few cases severe symptoms. Nothing in the article presents new facts about being unvaccinated gives you a high chance of having severe symptoms WITHOUT co-morbidities.

 

[Balifrog]

For the hundredth time: Yes. It. Does.

*Of course not 100% protection, no vaccine or medicine is 100%

You're reading the wrong papers...

 

[Balifrog]

We all know that being vaccinated does not mean we can't get infected and in some cases still have symptoms and in very few cases severe symptoms.

Slowly slowly we're getting there....
I mean, people understand what I said 101 times.

Ok, Gin Tonic at the beach, not gonna enter any serious () discussion. At 68 I have better things to do.
Like enjoying life !

Live and let live. Yep, some will die but that's life !
Cheers.

 

[dafluff]

Here is data from the Singapore Ministry of Health re: vaccine effectiveness in preventing severe Covid. Some people seem to get hung up on the 55-45% number of unvaccinated/vs vaccinated severe cases in Singapore, without comprehending that the vaccinated outnumber the unvaccinated 4 to 1, so maybe this helps.


"If infected with COVID-19, 1 in 4 unvaccinated seniors in their 60s will require oxygen, ICU care, or eventually pass away. With vaccination, the risk drops to 1 in 50. Vaccination reduces the risk of serious illness and a bad outcome. Help your seniors get vaccinated today."

 

[Balifrog]

It's not rocket science that the older we get, the more vulnerable, less resistant, less agile (physically and mentally) we become.
It is not like it's something we discover with Covid.

• If I drink a bit too much the hangover is much worse than 30 years ago
• For my job I had sometimes to climb on crane booms. At 60 I felt less confident than at 30.
• If I climb on a ladder or on the roof, I am now much more carefull than 30 y ago and take less risks, because I know my balance is not as good anymore, and if I break an arm or a leg the healing will be more complicated than 30 y ago.
• I am more sensitive to excessive cold or heat than 30 y ago.
• Etc etc

So yes, of course I am more at risk of serious consequences now than 30 y ago for ANY illness, being it a bad flu or Covid.
So yes, when getting older one has to be more carefull (as in my above examples). But that is up to each individual to decide.

 

[ChrisTex]

One thing I learned in recent days is if someone is diabetic, they are at higher risk of needing oxygen, going to the ICU. I was told it can be a matter of hours of being admitted they go to the ICU.

 

[john madden]

It's not rocket science that the older we get, the more vulnerable, less resistant, less agile (physically and mentally) we become.
It is not like it's something we discover with Covid.

• If I drink a bit too much the hangover is much worse than 30 years ago
• For my job I had sometimes to climb on crane booms. At 60 I felt less confident than at 30.
• If I climb on a ladder or on the roof, I am now much more carefull than 30 y ago and take less risks, because I know my balance is not as good anymore, and if I break an arm or a leg the healing will be more complicated than 30 y ago.
• I am more sensitive to excessive cold or heat than 30 y ago.
• Etc etc

So yes, of course I am more at risk of serious consequences now than 30 y ago for ANY illness, being it a bad flu or Covid.
So yes, when getting older one has to be more carefull (as in my above examples). But that is up to each individual to decide.

I hope that this post was not intended as commentary on dafluff's immediately prior to it. If it was then age has resulted in a further deficit you did not mention.

 

[Balifrog]

I hope that this post was not intended as commentary on dafluff's immediately prior to it. If it was then age has resulted in a further deficit you did not mention.

Nope, just "general" answer.

 

[Bad_azz]

...

"If infected with COVID-19, 1 in 4 unvaccinated seniors in their 60s will require oxygen, ICU care, or eventually pass away. With vaccination, the risk drops to 1 in 50. Vaccination reduces the risk of serious illness and a bad outcome. Help your seniors get vaccinated today."

The wording always amuses me (in a dark humour way) - we all "eventually" pass away vaccine or no, maybe they could say it straight- risk an earlier death

 

[Hawk256]

Now 4 shots for immunocompromised.

CDC says some immunocompromised people can get fourth COVID shot

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in updated guidelines Tuesday that some immunocompromised people who have received either Pfizer or Moderna's COVID-19 vaccines will be able to get a fourth shot. Details: People over 18 who are "moderately to severely immunocompromised" and...

www.yahoo.com

 

[dafluff]

Linked below is an article summarizing an FDA meeting on authorizing vaccines for 5-11 years old. Two things I thought were interesting:

1. Vaccine trial was for 2,268 trial participants and an additional “safety expansion” group of an additional 2,379 participants.
Of these, there were 5 "severe" adverse events:

• Ingestion of a penny (1 person in the vaccine group) <-------Personal favorite
• Fractures (2 people in the vaccine group and 1 in the placebo)
• Infective arthritis (one person in vaccine group)

None of these are actually related to the vaccine itself. Just an illustration of how you record absolutely every event, and why using such data (as recorded on VAERS) to impugn the safety of the vaccine is wrong.

2. We often hear that Covid doesn't affect the young. But, there have been 94 5-11-year-olds that have died from COVID19 (in the USA). Yes, a small number compared to the general population. However, we live in a time where 5-11-year-olds don't really die that much for any reason (provided they have all their childhood vaccinations). And because of that, this places COVID19 as the 8th leading cause of death for this age group.

Vaccines for 5-11 year olds: FDA meeting cliff notes

Today VRBPAC (an external scientific advisory committee to the FDA) voted in favor of the Pfizer COVID19 vaccine for 5-11 year olds.

yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com

 

[Balifrog]

But, there have been 94 5-11-year-olds that have died from COVID19 (in the USA).

800 kids drown in swimming pools in the US every year. Half of them under 5 y old.

Grim Statistics On Child Drownings | MomsTeam

According to the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC): 350 children under the age of five drown in pools each year nationwide. The majority of the deaths occur in June, July and August; most in backyard pools. Among unintentional injuries, drowning

www.momsteam.com

Almost 800 Kids Drown Each Year; More than Half are Under Age 5

New Research Reveals Persistent Misconceptions are Giving Families a False Sense of Security

www.safekids.org

You have to put things in perspective...