Vaccine effectiveness and Herd Immunity

[dafluff]

Have you ever tested positive of TBC after BCG vaccine? Or have you seen kids with Rubella after MMR Vaccine? Now did you try to google and search how many people got sick after vaccine and some died? Did you check the hospitalization rate in Singapore for example after vaccine?

Funny you should choose BCG, a vaccine with about 70-80% efficacy, which means people in fact do get TBC after vaccination. Just because YOU don't know that, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

With vaccine, it works "magically" inside our body, how would we know that vaccine works if majority of people are having mild symptoms or asymptotic even without vaccine?

It only works "magically" to you because you haven't got the faintest idea of how anything works or how people come to conclusions through medical research.

Dont make it a mandate if there is no 100% guarantee. This is my point.

Does wearing seatbelts guarantee you from dying in car accidents? Does passing a driver's license exam mean you are guaranteed to not get into an accident? Does getting FAA certification guarantee that a plane won't crash? Your point is ridiculous.

 

[Dave70]

Below link contains a chart for the duration of protection by vaccine for some disease. The shortest is 4 years while the longest is life-long for measles. COVID-19 is not included, if it is, I wonder if it will be 6 months or one year.

Efficacy and effectiveness

An explanation of how the success of vaccines can be measured, including the duration of vaccine protection.

www.immune.org.nz

 

[Vulgarian]

Funny you should choose BCG, a vaccine with about 70-80% efficacy, which means people in fact do get TBC after vaccination. Just because YOU don't know that, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

I was one of those people.

As part of my treatment, I was prescribed pills which had a side effect of turning your pee red. Much trauma could have been avoided if the doctor hadn't neglected to tell me this...

 

[Missnaughty]

Health experts want the U.K. to bring back covid restrictions. Government says 'we don't want to go back'

Public health experts in the United Kingdom are calling on the government to reintroduce some coronavirus restrictions as cases climb - far outstripping those of its western European neighbors - despi...

www.yahoo.com

 

[Missnaughty]

Keyword : ….. despite high vaccination coverage. Do we experience that with BCG? The 70-80% effective rate? Oh well…. Maybe we should get a real thing before make it mandatory? Oh.. seatbelt and BCG do not give us side effect that include blood clot and … death.

Health experts want the U.K. to bring back covid restrictions. Government says 'we don't want to go back'

Public health experts in the United Kingdom are calling on the government to reintroduce some coronavirus restrictions as cases climb - far outstripping those of its western European neighbors - despi...

www.yahoo.com

 

[Ruserious]

Oh.. seatbelt and BCG do not give us side effect that include blood clot and … death

How many? You live in the US right - so you see all those adverts with the long side effects mentioned, many including death as a very slight risk. Are you suggesting we ban all medicine?

Oh and yes there are cases of death from seatbelts. But in the vastly majority of incidents they have saved lives. A little bit like the covid vaccines.

The UK has a 7 day daily death average of 130. Pre-vaccines it peaked at 1300 per day. There have been 9 deaths in Uk associated with the vaccine, of which 5 are believed to have been directly caused by the vaccine.

I really understand the point you are trying to make. Do you by any chance watch a lot of Fox news and OANN?

 

[Missnaughty]

How many? You live in the US right - so you see all those adverts with the long side effects mentioned, many including death as a very slight risk. Are you suggesting we ban all medicine?

Oh and yes there are cases of death from seatbelts. But in the vastly majority of incidents they have saved lives. A little bit like the covid vaccines.

The UK has a 7 day daily death average of 130. Pre-vaccines it peaked at 1300 per day. There have been 9 deaths in Uk associated with the vaccine, of which 5 are believed to have been directly caused by the vaccine.

I really understand the point you are trying to make. Do you by any chance watch a lot of Fox news and OANN?

I oppose the mandate. With all the side effect and uncertainty… it should not be a mandatory. People should have given a choice whether they want or not to have the vaccine. It is easy for you to say… because you are ok. But what about the people that “must” have a vaccine but ended up with all those problem? Or those who died within 2 weeks after the vaccine. So this vaccine need to be a choice untill they know what they are dealing with.

 

[Missnaughty]

How many? You live in the US right - so you see all those adverts with the long side effects mentioned, many including death as a very slight risk. Are you suggesting we ban all medicine?

Oh and yes there are cases of death from seatbelts. But in the vastly majority of incidents they have saved lives. A little bit like the covid vaccines.

The UK has a 7 day daily death average of 130. Pre-vaccines it peaked at 1300 per day. There have been 9 deaths in Uk associated with the vaccine, of which 5 are believed to have been directly caused by the vaccine.

I really understand the point you are trying to make. Do you by any chance watch a lot of Fox news and OANN?

Also it is very unsettling to see how people react toward different opinion. You all calling me Trump supporters or Fox fans. Jadi bagaimana bisa push for more answer or find best solutions kalau ada beda pendapat lalu dilabeli negative?

 

[Missnaughty]

…. Only Fauci knows. - - regards, MN , The Trump supporter and Fox Fans

Fauci defends FDA panel, says it didn't make a mistake rejecting booster Covid shots for all Americans

The comments from Fauci come as the FDA advisory committee voted on Friday against giving third shots of Pfizer's vaccine to the general U.S. population.

www.google.com

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/19/anthony-fauci-covid-booster-shot-fda-vote

Fauci OK with FDA panel's COVID booster decision, tries to clear up confusion

Dr. Anthony Fauci on Sunday said he was not disappointed by an FDA's panel's rejection last week of a plan to start giving widespread COVID-19 vaccine...

www.google.com

 

[Missnaughty]

FYI, the last news about the booster… they have changed the reason why FDA rejecting booster.. from not enough data to need to focus on getting the unvaccinated vaccinated.

 

[gemima]

I oppose the mandate. With all the side effect and uncertainty… it should not be a mandatory. People should have given a choice whether they want or not to have the vaccine. It is easy for you to say… because you are ok. But what about the people that “must” have a vaccine but ended up with all those problem? Or those who died within 2 weeks after the vaccine. So this vaccine need to be a choice untill they know what they are dealing with.

I disagree that we don't know what we are dealing with regarding the vaccines - most adults in the west have had them already and we know they have a very good safety profile.
However, I agree with you re the mandate. I find it deeply uncomfortable and would prefer if they just made life for unvaxxed people inconvenient to encourage people to just get it e.g. daily/ weekly antigen tests, restrictions on indoor dining if unvaxxed, higher health insurance premiums etc.

I do feel that certain jobs require vaccine mandates - the army/ hospital workers/ prison workers/ school workers etc. My mum was a nurse before she retired and she had to get the flu shot yearly to help keep her patients safe - people going into those types of jobs knew what they were getting themselves into.

 

[El_Goretto]

Also it is very unsettling to see how people react toward different opinion. You all calling me Trump supporters or Fox fans. Jadi bagaimana bisa push for more answer or find best solutions kalau ada beda pendapat lalu dilabeli negative?

You are spitting out stupidities that have already been debunked ad nauseum everywhere including this very forum. There are pages upon pages of replies from the likes of @gemima, @Ruserious, @dafluff (1) and more (sorry if I am forgetting some, but regular readers get the gist of it) which are providing hard evidence against every single one of your ridiculous statements.

Even now, people are telling you how things are in the real world and you stick to your "opinions" which are nothing more than ramblings from someone who is completely out of their depth on this topic.

So I, for one, am sick of it. So I strongly suggest you read the various threads on the vaccine, including this one. And if you want to have an intelligent discussion, provide informed arguments, not this gibberish. Otherwise, don't be surprised when people think you are at the same level as those basic trump supporters and fox news sheep.

Eh, you're in the US so you must have access to reddit. Go check out https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/. It's a bit like the Darwin Awards but focused on people who shouted everywhere muh'body, muh'choice regarding the vaccines and now they're dead. ¯\(ツ)/¯

(1) Seriously, hats off to you guys, you are so patient. I've given up already, clearly.

 

[El_Goretto]

…. Only Fauci knows. - - regards, MN , The Trump supporter and Fox Fans

Fauci defends FDA panel, says it didn't make a mistake rejecting booster Covid shots for all Americans

The comments from Fauci come as the FDA advisory committee voted on Friday against giving third shots of Pfizer's vaccine to the general U.S. population.

www.google.com

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/19/anthony-fauci-covid-booster-shot-fda-vote

Fauci OK with FDA panel's COVID booster decision, tries to clear up confusion

Dr. Anthony Fauci on Sunday said he was not disappointed by an FDA's panel's rejection last week of a plan to start giving widespread COVID-19 vaccine...

www.google.com

FYI, the last news about the booster… they have changed the reason why FDA rejecting booster.. from not enough data to need to focus on getting the unvaccinated vaccinated.

Moderation note:

These 2 posts were from another thread started by user @Missnaughty which I have merged into this one. Have at it.

 

[Dave70]

Is mixed dose the problem for this 20 year old Thai girl who lost her leg?

Ms Ketsinee, a student at Phangnga Community College, suffered from acute arterial occlusion after receiving an AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine as her second shot. She is known to have first received a Sinovac jab.

According to Jamras Khanadpol, director of Phangnga Community College, the student began feeling unwell after getting her second shot on Aug 13.

Ms Ketsinee started complaining of a fever and chest pains around three days later, said Anupong Thamrong, a classmate. She went to see a doctor at Phangnga Hospital, who diagnosed her with a bladder infection.

However, she was rushed back to the hospital after she began experiencing severe pain in her left leg. She was referred to Surat Thani Hospital, where an X-ray revealed a blood clot that required urgent surgery.

As her condition continued to worsen, the hospital decided to transfer her to the better-equipped Krabi Hospital, then Songklanagarind Hospital in Hat Yai, where doctors decided to amputate her leg, Mr Anupong said.

Aid for cross-dose jab victim

The National Health Security Office (NHSO) will provide financial assistance to the 20-year-old college student whose leg was amputated after receiving a mixed dose vaccine formula.

www.bangkokpost.com

 

[Balifrog]

An interesting article, knowing that SGP had (and still has) very strict "Anti Covid" rules and a high percentage of the population double vaxed (84%).
And still they can't bring it under control and face a surge in Positive cases.
Even with a very disciplined population and very strict enforcement.

Highly vaccinated Singapore sets a worrying example - Asia Times

SINGAPORE – With 84% of Singaporeans fully vaccinated against Covid-19, one of the highest percentages worldwide, many had expected authorities would by

asiatimes.com

Note the phrase, a bit "orientated" :
"Unvaccinated patients made up 54.7% of 495 severe cases recorded in recent days, with others being vaccinated but with co-morbidities, said the MoH earlier this week. "

Which means that 45% of the severe cases were fully vaxed people .....

Yes, yes, old and with comorbidities but we know since ages that those people are more at risk for any ilness, cold wave, heat wave etc...

Live and let live continues to be my moto.

 

[R Cameron]

Singapore is currently having more deaths per day than Florida (and Florida has about 4 times the population).

But it took Florida 58,600 deaths to get to this point, while Singapore has had 294.

 

[dafluff]

"Unvaccinated patients made up 54.7% of 495 severe cases recorded in recent days, with others being vaccinated but with co-morbidities, said the MoH earlier this week. "

Which means that 45% of the severe cases were fully vaxed people .....

What you fail to mention is that Singapore is currently 80% fully vaccinated. So there are 4x more fully vaccinated people vs unvaccinated, yet they are a minority in severe cases. Proving once again that vaccines save lives and medical resources.

 

[Balifrog]

What you fail to mention is that Singapore is currently 80% fully vaccinated. So there are 4x more fully vaccinated people vs unvaccinated, yet they are a minority in severe cases. Proving once again that vaccines save lives and medical resources.

Again, I repeat myself for the 100th time :
Vaccine indeed protect (in most cases) from a simple infection turning into a severe case. And hence reduces ICU occupancy, resources and deaths.
But it does not protect from getting infected. SGP, UK, Israel are the prove of this. High rate of vaccination, but still spikes and rising number of infected people.

PS : you can not speak about an overwhelming majority/minority when we are speaking about 55% vs 45%.

 

[Dave70]

Singapore, one of the most vaccinated countries of the world, is now highest risk according to the US CDC this week.

US raises Covid-19 travel alert for Singapore to highest risk level

The notice asked US residents to "avoid travel to Singapore". Read more at straitstimes.com. Read more at straitstimes.com.

www.straitstimes.com

In response to the US CDC warning ???, Singapore is now including Sinovac in their national COVID-19 vaccination programme. Previously no Chinese vaccine is included, if you want Sinovac, you have to pay for it and the government will not be responsible if something goes wrong (any side effects). So most Singaporeans took Pfizer which is in the programme (guaranteed by the government and given free of charge).

Sinovac included in Singapore's national Covid-19 vaccination programme; 3 doses recommended

People are still recommended to take mRNA vaccines unless they are medically ineligible. Read more at straitstimes.com. Read more at straitstimes.com.

www.straitstimes.com

 

[Balifrog]

Singapore, one of the most vaccinated countries of the world, is now highest risk according to the US CDC this week.

CDC is more political than scientific....