US Presidential Election - What's your take?

[PhilippeD]

blocked by the congress... I do hope in some part it is what will happen!

 

[Davita]

blocked by the congress... I do hope in some part it is what will happen!

Who'd be the first Republican party member to go against the boss....the only opposition in the USA system, especially after his nominee is appointed to the Supreme court, will be filibustering in the Senate. I predict many Senators with health issues.
The other opposition will be from the street and I see on the news......already happening.

 

[BAJakarta]

So, to those who are happy that Trump won, I ask you: just what do you think he will accomplish in the next two years? This question has been asked on other boards I read, and no one seems able to give a specific reply. It's all vague stuff like "clean up the mess in Washington." I, and others, are not looking for that. What I want to know is - if you are so big on change, name a few, specifically, that you expect to see.

CNN actually had a list of 5 things they characterize as most important to Trump voters:

1) Build a wall
2) Lock up Clinton
3) Repeal ACA
4) Ban Muslims from entering the US
5) Undo trade agreements

I would be interested to know if that list matches that of any pro-Trump poster here, or if it doesn't, what YOU expect to see happen over the next 2 years.

ETA - I'm saying 2 years because that's how long we have until the next round of elections. We know that at least until then Trump will be ruling with the support of a Republican congress, so he and his supporters can't hide behind "blocked by Congress" as an excuse for not implementing any of the things he wants to do.)

my 2 cents view:
1) Build a wall (will certainly try to do some version of this - addressing/controlling illegal immigration will be high on the agenda)
2) Lock up Clinton (I am not sure if its possibble to do before someone is already convicted, but suspect if possible Obama will pardon her before he leaves office. This would be a waste of time and gov't resources now I think)
3) Repeal ACA (yes)
4) Ban Muslims from entering the US (this is always misinterpreted and even he has walked back his comments - there will be greater scrutiny of people attempting to enter the US from certain higher risk countries such as Syria etc - and I don't think Indonesia will be included)
5) Undo trade agreements (I think he will try to undo what he perceives to be lopsided trade agreements - those offering more benefits to the other country than the US is getting in return, and those facilitating moving jobs overseas)

 

[jukung11]

He may be impeached too. Then we are left with Pence. I'll take trump over pence.
I have been pretty vocal I don't feel on either team and voted for neither.
I wouldn't mind some progress on some of the issues on that list.

1. Stepping up border enforcement. This gets a lot of bipartisan support. After the shock loss to the Democrats, I expect they will get on board. I feel sorry for the border states. They are dealing with an organized crime war of drugs and human trafficking, which includes sex trafficking and all the horrible crimes that go with it. The rest of the country turned a blind eye and didn't deal with it. The break down of the rule of law is bad for all involved.

2. After Bill Clinton met with Loretta Lynch right before they dismissed the investigation against Hillary, it gave a heavy appearance of political influence on the justice department. Trump makes it sound like he will do try the same. I would be happy with a special prosecutor, like Patrick Fitzgerald did to Dick Cheney.

3. The ACA is in the cost death spiral that most critics predicted because the Democrats didn't have the balls to write in a significant penalty. I expect that was intentional to later replace it with Universal health care like the rest of the developed world. Didn't happen. I would rather see it fixed than scrapped, but it can't keep going the way it is.

4. Banning Muslims would be unconstitutional and quickly overturned. I will be honest, he would probably get away with severely limiting all refugee immigration. After the disasters I have been reading about the multigenerational performance of refugees, especially the ones from the Vietnam War, I would be fine with that.

5.not a fan. Probably not going to happen. Redoing trade agreements has to go through the Senate. They are controlled by Republicans. The party platform is for more freedom in trade. I have been paying attention that Obama think Republicans might pass TPP before trump takes office because it is closer to the parties ideology than Trump's rhetoric.

 

[PhilippeD]

Who'd be the first Republican party member to go against the boss....the only opposition in the USA system, especially after his nominee is appointed to the Supreme court, will be filibustering in the Senate. I predict many Senators with health issues.
The other opposition will be from the street and I see on the news......already happening.

Yah, but differently of other president the establisment don't like their present leader.

Do you really think the congress will let him blow up every past agreement sign (does it have one that he agree with?), ALENA, ACA, NATO, etc. all to the garbage bin?
Forcing the Mexican to paid for build a wall? or doing it themselves? Do you really think congress will allow fund for this?

Many Republican have shown a clear disagreement with trump. It will not take a lot of dissident for something can't pass at the congress.

 

[jukung11]

Who'd be the first Republican party member to go against the boss....the only opposition in the USA system, especially after his nominee is appointed to the Supreme court, will be filibustering in the Senate. I predict many Senators with health issues.
The other opposition will be from the street and I see on the news......already happening.

The Republican party would be happy to impeach Trump. Pence is ideologically pure to Republicans. The sooner, the more years the American public will have to get over it and get used to President Pence.

 

[kimdub]

So, to those who are happy that Trump won, I ask you: just what do you think he will accomplish in the next two years?

1) Build a wall
2) Lock up Clinton
3) Repeal ACA
4) Ban Muslims from entering the US
5) Undo trade agreements

I would be interested to know if that list matches that of any pro-Trump poster here, or if it doesn't, what YOU expect to see happen over the next 2 years.

Build a wall - Not sure, but I suspect much tougher border control. A strongly enforced worker program should be implemented. The "war on drugs" will never be won, but tougher border controls can certainly slow the flow. Bill Clinton had a work for welfare program that has been dismantled. Personally, I don't want to pay hard earned tax dollars for people who don't or won't work when there are so many jobs waiting for those that can. I think reducing the welfare rolls should be a goal for everyone.

Lock up Clinton - Emails will probably be forgotten, she has been embarrassed, ridiculed and her true colors showing already. But I see no problem investigating the Clinton Foundation for illegal activities and pay for play while she was Secretary. There is so much trust given to any person in such a high position, I think it is only fair to know what really occurred. And I think there is enough smoke to see if there really is a fire. And for all the Clinton supporters can you deny if the shoe was on the other foot that you would ignore it?

Repeal ACA - It was sold to the American public on lies and misdirection and is imploding on its own. I will forever remember the great Nancy Pelosi comment that you "will know what is in the bill after you pass it." And one of the main architects John Gruber commenting on tape about the stupidity of the American voter. Repeal or major changes really amount to the same thing. And this is a perfect example of why Trump won. The elites can afford it, the poor get it free. It is the hard working blue collar/middle class that end up footing the bill.

Ban Muslims - Personally, I think this is a comment twisted for political gain that everyone chooses to ignore the context. This was made at the time when Europe was admitting hoards of middle east refugees without any vetting process. Obama and Clinton were suggesting that America should do its fair share. So my guess would be that the numbers of Muslims admitted will be about equal to the numbers of previous administrations.

Undo trade agreements - Undo or renegotiate, I certainly hope so. It was the traditionally blue rust belt states that gave Trump the victory. Jobs jobs jobs. Didn't anyone notice how quiet the unions were during the election cycle? Always a big factor in the Dems turnout but very quiet this year. Major cities in the rust belt continuing to decline with no turn around in sight. So again the blue collar/middle class knows they will have a heavier tax burden while so many are already living paycheck to paycheck with the awareness that their job could be the next to go.

And as long as I am on the subject, a special thanks to all the intellectually superior posters here and throughout the states that gleefully loved to describe Trump supporters as idiots, stupid, rednecks, hillbilly's... did I cover it all? And of course Hillary's basket of deplorables. There was no better way to stimulate the Trump movement than to throw out such insults just because someone didn't agree with your line of thinking.

All those intellectually inferior people had to live with 8 years of Obama. Surely you can live with 4 years of Trump.

 

[fastpitch17]

1) Build a wall probably will of some type only to find it probably won't help
2) Lock up Clinton he won't do this and if he talks like he would try, Obama will pardon her. Or will any how.
3) Repeal ACA This would be difficult for him.
4) Ban Muslims from entering the US This is not going to happen but the US will become more strict on refugees.
5) Undo trade agreements Only partially perhaps.

While not voting for him, he will still be the president of the US. We still have to respect the office if not the man sitting in it. I am hopeful that the US finds some unity and starts to bring this division together. It isn't a new thing, the US population has been divided for many years. It will be up to the people to realize nothing is getting done and to bring themselves together. Find common ground for the good of the nation. This applies to a Trump presidency as well to a Hillary one if Trump would have lost. The people need to take back their nation because this election showed they didn't have a favorite candidate, just one they didn't like even more then the other.

 

[Puspawarna]

Surely you can live with 4 years of Trump.

Only 4 years of Trump - you don't think he'll be such a superstar that he'll be re-elected?

On the "intellectually superior posters" - you absolutely have a point that the "basket of deplorables" rhetoric was a terrible tactical mistake, not to mention ungenerous in spirit. I don't know if you saw it, but yesterday I personally referred to the "morons" who elected Trump. In my defense, I'm scared shitless over a Trump presidency, and not because he disagrees with me politically, but because he is a mentally lazy narcissist who lies, and I'm frustrated that so many people believed his outright untruths (unlike me, who doesn't believe all of Clinton's).

I think anyone talking to friends within 24 hours of a huge blow (and I do think of this forum as full of my friends) should get a slight pass. (Don't tell me you've never once in your life referred to liberals with a blanket negative term of some sort - I won't believe you, because that ain't human nature, regardless of one's political views.)

What *I* would like to see from a Trump presidency, and I don't think I'll get it but I would gladly eat my words, my computer, and a large serving of humble pie in order to get it, is:

• Improved race relations in America, as evidenced through a reduction in the unrest that occurs every time there is a police shooting, because people feel equally valued regardless of their skin color, economic class, etc. (I'd like to see fewer police shootings as well, of course, but there are going to be times when the police need to fire their weapons.)
• A reduction in mass shootings
• A reduction in terrorist attacks, within America's borders and beyond.
• A functioning health care system in the US that gives everyone access to decent medical care without having to pay unacceptably high costs.
• A minimal unemployment rate
• No American children growing up poor
• An education system that results in Americans improving their currently shockingly poor STEM performance compared to other developed countries.

I'd also like peace in the Middle East, unicorns, and rainbows, but I will settle for the above. Do you think Trump will produce any of those outcomes? Do you think it matters whether or not he does?

 

[Davita]

Only 4 years of Trump - you don't think he'll be such a superstar that he'll be re-elected?

On the "intellectually superior posters" - you absolutely have a point that the "basket of deplorables" rhetoric was a terrible tactical mistake, not to mention ungenerous in spirit. I don't know if you saw it, but yesterday I personally referred to the "morons" who elected Trump. In my defense, I'm scared shitless over a Trump presidency, and not because he disagrees with me politically, but because he is a mentally lazy narcissist who lies, and I'm frustrated that so many people believed his outright untruths (unlike me, who doesn't believe all of Clinton's).

I think anyone talking to friends within 24 hours of a huge blow (and I do think of this forum as full of my friends) should get a slight pass. (Don't tell me you've never once in your life referred to liberals with a blanket negative term of some sort - I won't believe you, because that ain't human nature, regardless of one's political views.)

What *I* would like to see from a Trump presidency, and I don't think I'll get it but I would gladly eat my words, my computer, and a large serving of humble pie in order to get it, is:

• Improved race relations in America, as evidenced through a reduction in the unrest that occurs every time there is a police shooting, because people feel equally valued regardless of their skin color, economic class, etc. (I'd like to see fewer police shootings as well, of course, but there are going to be times when the police need to fire their weapons.)
• A reduction in mass shootings
• A reduction in terrorist attacks, within America's borders and beyond.
• A functioning health care system in the US that gives everyone access to decent medical care without having to pay unacceptably high costs.
• A minimal unemployment rate
• No American children growing up poor
• An education system that results in Americans improving their currently shockingly poor STEM performance compared to other developed countries.

I'd also like peace in the Middle East, unicorns, and rainbows, but I will settle for the above. Do you think Trump will produce any of those outcomes? Do you think it matters whether or not he does?

Puspawarna for President I say....but wait.....didn't Trump expound something similar...and Clinton...and Obama... et al.

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else"..........Winston Churchill.

 

[Puspawarna]

Puspawarna for President I say

No way! I think that in order to actually seriously want to be president, you have to suffer from pathological ambition at a minimum, and most likely several other mental conditions as well. I mean, not that I'm so sane or anything, but I'm not THAT crazy. The ones that actually run are all nuts, regardless of their political stripe.

 

[Bad_azz]

No way! I think that in order to actually seriously want to be president, you have to suffer from pathological ambition at a minimum, and most likely several other mental conditions as well. I mean, not that I'm so sane or anything, but I'm not THAT crazy. The ones that actually run are all nuts, regardless of their political stripe.

That is partly why I think M Obama would be a good one- she seems sane and has categorically said no way would she want the job. From what I have seen probably one of the most real people to ever live in the WH

 

[kimdub]

Only 4 years of Trump - you don't think he'll be such a superstar that he'll be re-elected?

On the "intellectually superior posters" - you absolutely have a point that the "basket of deplorables" rhetoric was a terrible tactical mistake, not to mention ungenerous in spirit. I don't know if you saw it, but yesterday I personally referred to the "morons" who elected Trump. In my defense, I'm scared shitless over a Trump presidency, and not because he disagrees with me politically, but because he is a mentally lazy narcissist who lies, and I'm frustrated that so many people believed his outright untruths (unlike me, who doesn't believe all of Clinton's).

I think anyone talking to friends within 24 hours of a huge blow (and I do think of this forum as full of my friends) should get a slight pass. (Don't tell me you've never once in your life referred to liberals with a blanket negative term of some sort - I won't believe you, because that ain't human nature, regardless of one's political views.)

What *I* would like to see from a Trump presidency, and I don't think I'll get it but I would gladly eat my words, my computer, and a large serving of humble pie in order to get it, is:

• Improved race relations in America, as evidenced through a reduction in the unrest that occurs every time there is a police shooting, because people feel equally valued regardless of their skin color, economic class, etc. (I'd like to see fewer police shootings as well, of course, but there are going to be times when the police need to fire their weapons.)
• A reduction in mass shootings
• A reduction in terrorist attacks, within America's borders and beyond.
• A functioning health care system in the US that gives everyone access to decent medical care without having to pay unacceptably high costs.

• A minimal unemployment rate
• No American children growing up poor
• An education system that results in Americans improving their currently shockingly poor STEM performance compared to other developed countries.

I'd also like peace in the Middle East, unicorns, and rainbows, but I will settle for the above. Do you think Trump will produce any of those outcomes? Do you think it matters whether or not he does?

Well, I will try my best to respond. And I will repeat again what I have said more than once before, I don't like Trump, but I did like his ideas. You can call me a moron and others can call me every other insulting word used quite a few times in this thread. It was just what was said many times by the "elite" in the states. If it gives people a feeling of superiority to debase others that don't agree with them, it is their choice. I think that is a big reason the polls were so off, people were so tired of being judged as dumb, stupid, morons and etc. that they just gave an answer that they wouldn't be negatively judged, even by some telephone stranger. And it did energize the base as payback for all the insults.

And of course any normal person has negative thoughts when something doesn't go their way. I could probably come up with a hundred insults to anyone that is a Globalist, Progressive, Liberal, Neocon and Tea Party member. And I might feel good for a minute, but the end result to me is that I would be a smaller person for those insults.

The ironic thing to me is that it seems the more Politically correct someone is, the quicker they are to seem to feel free to sling the hurtful insults to anyone that has the audacity to question them. Not pointing fingers at you, just a generalization.

Yes, Trump is a narcissist but a very successful business person that has shown he can get a job done. How is that really any different than Hillary who felt such a sense of entitlement to the Presidency that her committee and the DNC would stoop to cheating in the primaries and the debates. So to me, the narcissism and sense of entitlement is a wash. If you see the warts on one person, only fair to see on both.

Any politician that doesn't lie is probably not going to be a successful politician. Because my sense of Hillary is that she is a congenital liar, no need to get into a tit for tat over who is the bigger liar. But I am very curious what lies did Trump tell that scared you so bad?

Your list of what you would hope could be accomplished is interesting, because I don't know a single conservative that would argue with you. Note, I am not referring to the NeoCons.

Obama Care, I can't call it the ACA because it fails on the affordable part. Do you remember the televised discussion between Obama and the Repubs? It was an attempt at some type of compromise to get a bipartisan agreement. I don't remember all the suggestions, but I do remember a request that insurers be able to go across state lines. I also remember tort reform because medical insurance is such a huge part of the costs. Not a single suggestion was accepted, and do you remember why? Because Obama said "because I won" So we have government mandates for the policies that give no real choice to the participants and zero competition outside the state for quotes. A pipe dream that the young would rush to pay the premiums to support it, so it was really doomed from the start.

What was Hillary's plan? I missed it. All I heard her say was fix it.

The Education system is an embarrassment to me and getting worse I am afraid. Have you noticed the discipline or lack of in American schools? But oh, if I mention where I think the worst problems are, I will be judged a racist. Teachers unions so strong that no matter how bad a teacher is, they have a job for life. Opposition to charter schools and school choice, so even if a parent has higher aspirations for their child, they are stuck in some lousy school. I recently attended my 50th high school reunion. What a hell hole, certainly not an environment for learning. But the teachers unions support and donate to the Dems. So what was Hillary's plan? Again, I missed it.

to be continued

 

[jstar]

Well, with Ben Carson, Obamacare won't survive, right? What really gives me shivers, is having someone like Sarah Palin in the Administration.

 

[Daniel50]

What really struck me in this whole process, was the amount of negative press given to Donald Trump. It seemed that various news providers did not like him. It did not seem like balanced objective reporting and right down to the end he was going to lose, according to all these sources. They would tend to report with the same kind of astonishment shown by the losing side. When I watched Face The Nation , in Indonesia on CNBC, it seemed like the host did not like Donald Trump. However, as is reported now/more by some intellectuals there is a shift amongst voters, in the West, and perhaps more then just the West away from the " political elite" or whatever this all is. Maybe people are tired of feeling powerless towards people in power, who simply seem to be self and big business interested.

 

[jstar]

Many of us have seen this before* though; (ultra right or left) populists with a easy messages for the masses who suddenly got amazing election results. Popular themes always contain loss of culture, safety and jobs because of foreigners (as in immigrants and trade agreements). And while everyone is somewhat embarressed to admit it, they vote for the person since 'something needs to happen' and they don't want a status quo. Also, it often is some kind of practical joke, they have a feeling they can get away with it.

* E.g. France, Greece, The Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Austria, ....

 

[Puspawarna]

You can call me a moron

I don't think you are a moron, and I thank you for continuing to engage. Let me be clear what I think is moronic: I have heard many Trump supporters, including close personal friends, support Trump because "he's not a politician". Here on this board, someone said they liked that he was shaking up the Republican Party.

Well, let's look at that lack of experience as a politician. On what planet does that qualify someone to be president? Do you think an inexperienced brain surgeon is a better choice than one who has spent years in school and then learning his/her trade with more experienced doctors? Do you want to work in a skyscraper built by an architect who has no training in structural integrity? Of course not. Then why the heck would anyone want a president who has zero knowledge of the political system?

People may think government is easy, but it's not. (If it were we'd have full employment, no deficit, etc. already.) Harvard actually teaches classes to incoming Congresscritters (or at least they used to - if it is no longer SOP, I'm sure something else has taken its place) to explain to them how the legislative process works, because in real life it is complicated. A president should already know that system inside out and be able to manipulate to it advantage. Could Trump even give a good precis of the sort those Congressional freshmen can after they complete their Harvard training? Does he even know really basic stuff like how riders work or when you can filibuster or how presidential vetoes get overridden? Maybe, but he showed no evidence of that and implied such skills and knowledge were of no value. And don't even get me started on his lack of knowledge of diplomacy or even the facts on the ground in the Middle East. He's the man who asked why we make nuclear weapons if we don't intend to use them.

Trump liked to say that in Hilary's 30 years she had done nothing (as if one junior senator could single-handledly implement any policy she wanted). Turning that around for a moment, Trump is 70 - and never ran for public office. What kind of terrifying hubris must he possess to think he has the right to start at the very top? If he cared about public policy, why didn't HE run for Senate a few years ago? As the junior senator from NY surely he would have done more than Hilary, eh?

Now, people may have answers to those challenges, but I have never once heard a word beyond the platitude, "he's for change! he'll drain the swamp!" Such blathering is on the face of it illogical - if someone can't do better than that to describe their support for Trump, than yes - they ARE morons. I am not including people who can actually discuss policy issues, but I have to say, I did not see that happening in a variety of cases.

One of our own posters said, "I do like the fact that Trump destroyed the "Good Old Boy" Republican party establishment and they hate him for it." He hasn't been back since making that comment, so may very well have a cogent defense of that attitude. However, it sure seems to defy logic on its face. Exactly which part of the party establishment's platform is Trump bringing down? Trump is showing every sign that he will put Republican establishment people like Gingrich into positions of power in his administration. He'll be working hand-in-hand with a Republican House and Senate to pass elements of the Republican platform. (Which is fine, BTW - that's how our country works.)

Anyway, the "morons" are the people who vote with no more clarity on their own politics than "ooh, he's inexperienced - that'll teach those Washington insiders!" Obama must have gotten some of their votes, too. Maybe those people are wonderful in other ways, but in terms of having a moral compass or a well-thought-out value system for how they'd like to see our political system operate, they are, well...moronic.

 

[R Cameron]

Trump got fewer votes than the Republican in 2004, 2008, and 2012, so he didn't win because he energized the Republican party. He won because Hillary was a horrible candidate that Democrats couldn't get excited about.

 

[fastpitch17]

I think that when the election was called as over, the one most afraid that Trump was elected just could have been Trump himself.

 

[ChrisTex]

1) Build a wall
2) Lock up Clinton
3) Repeal ACA
4) Ban Muslims from entering the US
5) Undo trade agreements

Didn't vote for Trump, but I will take a stab at this as I am/was anti-Hillary.

1. Build a wall? A physical wall no as it would be a waste of resources and time. Yes as in do something with the border by hiring more staff. Having lived in a border town, every time I have crossed into Mexico and came back, there were less Border Patrol agents than the TSA agents at the local airport. I would even argue to do what Bush Jr. suggested with his immigration plan:10+ years, 100% chance of citizenship, 5-10 years, 50%chance at citizenship, 5 years or less case by case. Help someone come across illegally, you get a felony. You come across illegally, you get a felony and deported.

2. Not sure if this will even happen especially if Obama offers Clinton a pardon. He might go after her foundation though. For me, she lost, she isn't going to run again, that is justice for me.

3. Yes: let the insurance companies compete for your services which should cause the prices to drop. At the very least get rid of the fine you get if you don't have insurance. I know people who lost their insurance they had after ACA was introduced. Plus before I moved over here, the cheapest insurance I could find was $800 a month. That is nearly 1/4 rent for my apartment. It needs to be fixed either way. You could add the VA here. The system is broken and needs a complete overhaul. People are waiting too long to be seen, not getting the treatment they need.

4. Echoing what BAJakarta and jukung 11 said. I don't think an complete ban will ever fly with anyone. Tougher to get a visa from certain countries, yes I can see that happening. Not letting everyone who says they are a refugee in automatically, but on a case by case. I liken this to what the UK has done


5. Depends on the agreement and who benifits the most. Ideally if the agreement helped each country out 50/50 or even 60/40, leave it. Otherwise review it and go from there. The only deal I will say that needs to be scrapped completely, the Iran Nuke deal.

Other things I would like to see:

-Jobs returning to the US: Ford moved their small car production to Mexico(reported in Sept. 2016).

-Uniting the country: This will take time as wounds don't heal overnight. Meet with BLM and be willing to address some of their concerns. Meet with the Police Unions to address their concerns. Then hold a meeting with both parties present to try and solve the issues.

Education: -Get rid of all state tests and get back to teaching. Students need to learn history, math, another language, etc..., not learn how to take tests.
-Bring back classes that teach various trades. Not everyone is going to go to college so why not offer a trade that after high school they can use.
-Reduce the cost of college debt. Reducing the cost of university would help, but also don't force repayment 6 months after graduation. Make it like the UK(if they still do this) where if you are unable to find work, you don't pay. Earn a certain amount, pay a certain amount. Also left college debt be forgivable.

Reduce the debt: Not expecting it to be cut in half, but work on reducing it.

Have a chip on his shoulder: To prove everyone wrong. He is full of himself so it could work.