US Presidential Election - What's your take?

[tihzho]

What's your take of the US presidential election?

To me its so surreal like a reality TV show on the History channel. While I respect Trump as a businessman - a real-estate agent on steroids - he's not someone you'd want holding the highest office in the US.

Trump followers from what I can see are hailing Trump as the new "messiah" who'll "save" the US.



Hillary has her issues as well, however she's a seasoned politician who other country leaders could relate to. As well she has Bill Clinton as an adviser and he did a rather good job as president.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Jaime C]

I just feel like I'm trapped in a reality TV show nightmare.

 

[HappyMan]

I'm not sure I credit Trump as a respectable businessman. He has done well in real estate. I'm not saying he didn't make money, either. But, I've read a couple of articles on his businesses recently, and it seems like most of the value he has created has been of the "some rich guy is connected to this, it must be good" variety. This particular form of self branding brings to mind other business worthies like... Paris Hilton. Politically, I think he plays to the lowest factions in the country. He tells the economic "losers" that he is on their side... and they believe it. He validates hate, "suffer the little bigots to come unto me." Additionally, he makes promises that are so far from reality that even "seasoned politicians" would be wary of them, "I'm gonna build a wall (blah blah blah) and Mexico's gonna pay for it." Really?

Clinton... I can't say I've been listening to her enough to known what she will do with the country. Still, I doubt she'll get so high on her own supply (of hot gasses) that she flies the country into the side of a cliff. I don't have that much confidence in Trump.

 

[waarmstrong]

The Republican National Convention starts in a few days. Should be the mother of all stomach-turning events. There will likely be veiled messages that every conspiracy loving and hate preaching group can find appealing. I predict that Hillary rather than Trump will be the focus; the attacks will be so over the top that the Republicans will end up, once again, shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[Puspawarna]

I don't have a lot to add, really - you all have said it for me.

Honestly, if I didn't have a kid I'd be tempted to shake my head, mumble "whatever", and do my best to ignore it. But my son is only 18 and he is going to have to live with the consequences of whatever craziness Trump might get us into.

Obviously there are plenty of Trump supporters out there, but they don't exist in my universe. I know exactly one couple who is planning to vote for him. They are dear friends but have always been a little crazy, or to put that in laymen's terms, "in genuine need of psychiatric help." Now I'm convinced they are a LOT crazy. We don't talk politics, there is no point.

 

[Nimbus]

I heard an interesting exchange last week at work. A couple of Europeans colleagues were meeting with us, and during the break the conversation turned to the election. The lady from Romania asked "what if Trump wins?", obviously assuming that the smart colleagues in USA (like the rest of the world), were equally appalled at the prospect. She was throughly surprised when a couple of ladies on our side replied "better than Hillary", yet another asked "we can move there, right?"

I'm glad I could keep my piehole shut.

 

[waarmstrong]

... She was thoroughly surprised when a couple of ladies on our side replied "better than Hillary", yet another asked "we can move there, right?"

I'm glad I could keep my piehole shut.

Like I said, Hillary will be the focus of the Republicans. Trump is just a cardboard cutout to mask fear of the changes, proposed and implemented, (some badly) they find appalling -- gay rights, health care reform, consumer protection, banking regulation, policing and sentencing reform, immigration overhaul, etc. They don't care what Trump will do, it's what he won't do -- move the country furthering in the direction Obama has charted -- that gets him votes.

 

[Nimbus]

Like I said, Hillary will be the focus of the Republicans. Trump is just a cardboard cutout to mask fear of the changes, proposed and implemented, (some badly) they find appalling -- gay rights, health care reform, consumer protection, banking regulation, policing and sentencing reform, immigration overhaul, etc. They don't care what Trump will do, it's what he won't do -- move the country furthering in the direction Obama has charted -- that gets him votes.

It works the other way around too. I've heard of permanent resident latinos applying for citizenship just so they can vote against Trump. He said Mexicans are rapists and criminals while Muslims must be banned and registered. Hillary is not the most progressive candidate from the Democratic party, but at least she's no Trump who promised to install a conservative Supreme Court judge, who might overturn Roe v. Wade.

This is the last stand of the mostly conservative Baby Boomers' control over American politics, so they are pulling all the stops, betting the farm and going full bigot. Millennials (equal in population to boomers) are beginning to vote in large numbers, and they are overwhelmingly liberal.

Obama v. Romney looked close, but Obama won handily. This time around Clinton 45th will win, according to fivethirtyeight. They correctly predicted Obama's win.
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

 

[Puspawarna]

This is the last stand of the mostly conservative Baby Boomers' control over American politics, so they are pulling all the stops, betting the farm and going full bigot. Millennials (equal in population to boomers) are beginning to vote in large numbers, and they are overwhelmingly liberal.
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

If your analysis is right I'm very happy, because that means Trump loses. But I'm not sure I'd describe Baby Boomers' as "mostly conservative", nor would I tend to characterize Trump supporters as "baby boomers" per se. Obviously there is some overlap, but I thought the most relevant characteristics were race and income - in other words, economically struggling white voters (who believe, however incorrectly, that they are losing out to minorities and foreigners) form the base of Trump's support.

But I'll take a loss by Trump through any possible means, including being ridiculously wrong!

On a different matter related to the election: did anyone see that Cornel West is backing third-party candidate Jill Stein? Great, just what we need - publicity for a doomed campaign that might attract just enough BernieBros to tip the election to Trump. Shut up, Professor West!

 

[dafluff]

The fact that the world's most prominent democracy gets to choose between Crooked Hilary and Drumpf this coming November is probably one of the signs of the apocalypse...I have to consult my religious texts!

On a serious note, I think the Republicans (and to a much lesser extent the Democrats) should examine their primary system. Right now it truly favors nut heads who are willing to stir up the lowest common denominator voters, who overwhelmingly vote during primaries. For the Republicans this is very problematic, because their base is so far to the right of the rest of the country that it makes it very difficult for sane moderates to get the nomination. The people that do get the nomination then have to scramble to court the rest of the country, all the while being handicapped what they may have said or done to attract the base during the primaries.

 

[dafluff]

Also, welcome to the forum Nimbus! I hope we may have more rigorous debates here as well!

 

[Nimbus]

If your analysis is right I'm very happy, because that means Trump loses. But I'm not sure I'd describe Baby Boomers' as "mostly conservative", nor would I tend to characterize Trump supporters as "baby boomers" per se. Obviously there is some overlap, but I thought the most relevant characteristics were race and income - in other words, economically struggling white voters (who believe, however incorrectly, that they are losing out to minorities and foreigners) form the base of Trump's support.

But I'll take a loss by Trump through any possible means, including being ridiculously wrong!

On a different matter related to the election: did anyone see that Cornel West is backing third-party candidate Jill Stein? Great, just what we need - publicity for a doomed campaign that might attract just enough BernieBros to tip the election to Trump. Shut up, Professor West!

There are always idealists with all-or-nothing attitude. Luckily they exist on both sides. There's a good number of Republicans that aren't excited with Trump, probably more so than Bernie-or-bust guys.

Many of Bernie's young supporters like him because of his somewhat radical economic platform, like free college and anti corporatism. While Sanders is --without question-- a social progressive, his most ardent supporters aren't necessarily so. They want more economic opportunity for themselves while being relatively indifferent to social issues, this is because many of them are young white people.

 

[Nimbus]

The fact that the world's most prominent democracy gets to choose between Crooked Hilary and Drumpf this coming November is probably one of the signs of the apocalypse...I have to consult my religious texts!

On a serious note, I think the Republicans (and to a much lesser extent the Democrats) should examine their primary system. Right now it truly favors nut heads who are willing to stir up the lowest common denominator voters, who overwhelmingly vote during primaries. For the Republicans this is very problematic, because their base is so far to the right of the rest of the country that it makes it very difficult for sane moderates to get the nomination. The people that do get the nomination then have to scramble to court the rest of the country, all the while being handicapped what they may have said or done to attract the base during the primaries.

The Democrats have had their system fixed, that's part of the reason why Clinton is the presumptive nominee instead of Sanders. Learning from their experience with Carter, the dems have party insiders appointed as super delegates to balance the extreme tendencies of the base. It works the same way the House is balanced by the Senate. If the Republican party survives Trump, they are likely to put a super delegate system in place.

 

[Nimbus]

Also, welcome to the forum Nimbus! I hope we may have more rigorous debates here as well!

Thanks!

 

[ChrisTex]

Some of my friends are going the Libertarian route with Gary Johnson(Gov. New Mexico).

I'm still on the fence if I will do a write in or vote Johnson. I do know it won't be Hillary after Bengazi and the the email scandal.

[Tin foil hat]On a side note, anyone else notice how when a major political situation comes up that people should be talking about and taking into consideration, something else suddenly pops up in the news and takes the attention away from the original issue?[/Tin foil hat]

 

[dafluff]

So the GOP convention is beginning today? Should be an interesting watch!

 

[Scooterindo]

Hillary Clinton is a slimy liar and Trump is a xenophobic dick head - I wouldn't be surprised if at the last minute there will be a influx of votes for "none of the above" or the American equivalent of the monster raving looney party.

 

[Nimbus]

Hillary Clinton is a slimy liar and Trump is a xenophobic dick head - I wouldn't be surprised if at the last minute there will be a influx of votes for "none of the above" or the American equivalent of the monster raving looney party.

I'm not entirely convinced that Hillary is a bigger liar than the average politician, it's just that Republicans knew since the moment she got into politics that eventually they'll go up against her. I watched as they exploited every little flaw about her and amplify it, the last of which is the email issue. They tried mightily to blame the Benghazi incident on her, but when they couldn't do it they got to find something else. Guess what, previous and current secretaries of state also use private email, although Clinton probably used it more.

The emails themselves don't matter, what matters is they are a convenient vehicle to attack her trustworthiness. It's working, to some degree.

Goebbels said "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

He was right.

 

[waarmstrong]

...On a serious note, I think the Republicans (and to a much lesser extent the Democrats) should examine their primary system. Right now it truly favors nut heads who are willing to stir up the lowest common denominator voters, who overwhelmingly vote during primaries. For the Republicans this is very problematic, because their base is so far to the right of the rest of the country that it makes it very difficult for sane moderates to get the nomination. The people that do get the nomination then have to scramble to court the rest of the country, all the while being handicapped what they may have said or done to attract the base during the primaries.

The primary system for selecting big party candidates is a crap shoot. Party insiders and deep pocket donors tried to rig things to exclude those they do not favor, but Republicans were, and still are, aghast at the outcome. They thought they had tilted the scale to Bush. (Remember him?) The leadership is the victim of its own divisive, exclusionary rhetoric.

Democratic leadership, as well, was almost sent packing by their voters, but were more circumspect in, among other things, packing the house with so-called super delegates. If it were a level playing field, perhaps Sanders would be facing off with Trump.

Beyond the primary system, it's the general election process that is in many states gerry-rigged to essentially disenfranchise low income and minority voters. Making it difficult for voters to exercise their franchise seems to correlate with Republican control of state legislatures. This is one of the travesties of American democracy that had the best chance of being addressed with a Sanders Presidency.

Things will continue to muddle along, whomever gets in. Power is divided such that even Trump's ability to fuck things up is limited. We are a pretty sad bunch these days.

 

[fastpitch17]

Hillary Clinton is a slimy liar and Trump is a xenophobic dick head - I wouldn't be surprised if at the last minute there will be a influx of votes for "none of the above" or the American equivalent of the monster raving looney party.

Scoot, if there were a box that could be marked for "none of the above" I would bet it would win this time. Both of the nominees are undesirable in my book. from one extreme to another. From one out and out lie to another. Both are in it for the money as far as I am concerned. Neither cares a squat about the American people. Just themselves and their families welfare.