Twitter Wars: Bali vs. Kristen Gray

gemima

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 25, 2016
Messages
258
From 600 followers and now famous worldwide, with millions who now know her name....

I guess that can be described as a total success for the kind of people who want to be FB or other social media "heroes" ?

Now she just has to monetize it !

Wonder what her parents think about it ?
I think the problem is she is more infamous than famous - its hard to monetize!
 

jukung11

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Oct 8, 2016
Messages
276
I'm aware that things are starting to change now, with innovative companies taking over from the old guys. This train of thought has often occurred to me, though.
Recently I was daydreaming about getting a PlayStation 4 to play with my kid. This is not the hot new shit, but the previous generation of console. The game console cost millions and that is fine, you pay it once. I happened to look up the prices of the game CDs though, and the actual games are between 300k and 500k each. Now, instead of paying for games, you can get the PlayStation4 with a 1tb hard drive full of pirated games... for not that much more than the cost of the game console itself.
The thing with those those games on hard drives though is that they can be a bit fiddly to run... also, piracy. Sony could print those old CDs and sell them on Tokopedia themselves for 100k and make a profit. Why not activate the customer class that is willing to pay (a reasonable amount) for the previous generation of product? Why won't they make the effort to take my money?

Because of the grey market and globalism. If they legitimized the sale of intellectual property in Indonesia (like games and movies) at a cheaper price, anyone can legally purchase it in Indonesia and resell it in a more lucrative market. It is known as a grey market good. It would undercut sales in developed markets that have stronger legal systems to combat piracy.

Sony does not own most of the intellectual property (games) that are played on the playstation. The IP is owned by private software publishers. Almost all game console companies sell their consoles at a loss or break even prices to get the fees from publishers. Any effort to undermine the publishing companies profits from developed markets, by legitimizing or making it easier for piracy, would be a death move for Sony.


It reminds me of all the money that international media companies have left on the table by trying to charge developed world prices for movies, films, and books in the developing world. They can't be asked to adapt(their prices), preferring to complain about other people breaking the rules(pirating). They have a potential income with next to no cost to create it and minor costs to development, but just can't be bothered to do the work. Solve the problem, get the money.

It was done from the 70s to the early 00s. Vice Indonesia did a report on it a few years ago. It was known as dumping. It destroyed the Indonesian television and film production studios.

Suharto had complete control of all broadcast rights for most of his Presidency and with rampant corruption and kickbacks, there was total control of media. Another aspect was the government did not want the Chinese cultural influence, so a lot of Chinese movies were limited. Most U.S. TV studios sold their programming cheap to Indonesia. All the government had to do was dub it. The programming was sold so cheap that Indonesian studios couldn't compete except with the cheapest of programming, the sinetron.

In my personal opinion, this helped contribute to the "model minority" status for bule. TV was the largest form of media for 40-50 years. I believe bombarding the Indonesian people with images and programing of the wealth of westerners contributed as much to the modern opinions they hold of foreigners as colonialism did.
 
Last edited:

HappyMan

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
454
Because of the grey market and globalism. If they legitimized the sale of intellectual property in Indonesia (like games and movies) at a cheaper price, anyone can legally purchase it in Indonesia and resell it in a more lucrative market. It is known as a grey market good. It would undercut sales in developed markets that have stronger legal systems to combat piracy.

Sony does not own most of the intellectual property (games) that are played on the playstation. The IP is owned by private software publishers. Almost all game console companies sell their consoles at a loss or break even prices to get the fees from publishers. Any effort to undermine the publishing companies profits from developed markets, by legitimizing or making it easier for piracy, would be a death move for Sony.




It was done from the 70s to the early 00s. Vice Indonesia did a report on it a few years ago. It was known as dumping. It destroyed the Indonesian television and film production studios.

Suharto had complete control of all broadcast rights for most of his Presidency and with rampant corruption and kickbacks, there was total control of media. Another aspect was the government did not want the Chinese cultural influence, so a lot of Chinese movies were limited. Most U.S. TV studios sold their programming cheap to Indonesia. All the government had to do was dub it. The programming was sold so cheap that Indonesian studios couldn't compete except with the cheapest of programming, the sinetron.

In my personal opinion, this helped contribute to the "model minority" status for bule. TV was the largest form of media for 40-50 years. I believe bombarding the Indonesian people with images and programing of the wealth of westerners contributed as much to the modern opinions they hold of foreigners as colonialism did.
I had to go and look some stuff up on Wikipedia... I remember learning in school that there are different types of software licenses, with some being transferable and others less so. I had thought the publishers could limit resale of goods. Looks like you are right though. All of the aforementioned goods could be legally re-sold in the West if purchased in a retail market here in Indonesia. Arbitrage!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

I can't speak to the cultural development stuff from an Indonesian perspective, but I have personally benefited from imported and translated works both written and filmed. I'd think most Americans would benefit from a bit more imported media, help us get a bit more understanding of the world. But then I suppose that is the opposite problem to the one you are describing in the development of Indonesian film studios.
I have asked people over and over for good Indonesian film recommendations and gotten a very limited list in reply. I suppose now I know why.
 

snpark

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Sep 30, 2016
Messages
2,041
Yeh what a kn0b

Last week he wanted everyone to travel to Bali and work from there instead. The ground zero of Corona while we are supposed to be on lockdown and this muppet is saying hey all come fly to Bali and work from here.
 

R Cameron

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
804

snpark

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Sep 30, 2016
Messages
2,041
Is it just flashing a photoshopped bank statement or actually depositing it here somewhere
 

nd_eric_77

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
489

jukung11

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Oct 8, 2016
Messages
276
I am not sure how many takers they will get, but the amount is in line with other programs, which is why it is politically safe to do. My recollection is the investor KITAS was 2.5 bln idr and a seat on the board.

The IDR amount is not far off the 500,000 myr liquid and 10,000 myr/month Malaysia requires.
Even Malaysia upped the requirements in 2017. They don't want the poorer westerners. They would rather only have 3000 a year of the wealthier investors. The problem is Indonesia thinks it is competing with Malaysia with its Malaysia My Second Home. Indonesia is really competing with the Philippines with its Special Resident Retiree Visa, with requirements of $1,500-$50,000 deposit in country.
 

R Cameron

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
804
My recollection is the investor KITAS was 2.5 bln idr and a seat on the board.
The investor KITAS is 1M of shares if a director/komisaris, 1.125M if simply a shareholder.

They would rather only have 3000 a year of the wealthier investors. The problem is Indonesia thinks it is competing with Malaysia with its Malaysia My Second Home. Indonesia is really competing with the Philippines with its Special Resident Retiree Visa, with requirements of $1,500-$50,000 deposit in country.
The problem is in calling this a good program for the "Digital Nomad" workers. Indonesia already has visas for investors and retirees, and they're far less expensive.
 

snpark

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Sep 30, 2016
Messages
2,041
The whole point of being retired with 2b or 5b in the bank is you wouldn't be staying in Indonesia for 5 years. You'd likely travelling and would just use voa and stay here for a couple of months before flying off to Aspen or Europe or NZ

And for businessmen surely you'd just stick with the annual visa. Far cheaper and who knows what's going to happen in 5 years to need to have "deposited" all that money

Silly unthoughtful idea
 

jukung11

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Oct 8, 2016
Messages
276
Why can't Bali compete with Malaysia for rich retirees? I don't think I'd ever want to live in Malaysia
It can, but not well on some metrics like currency stability, healthcare infrastructure, market stability, ability to legally work, civil court strength for investment security. I am not saying Malaysia is great on those measures, but it is slightly more financially stable than Indonesia. The wealthier class usually has as much concern about protecting their health and wealth.

Indonesia competes well on cost of living, atmosphere, and attractiveness, but the government is not competing on price because it is requiring even more investment than Malaysia.

As R Cameron points out, Indonesia already has an age 55+ retirement visa with far less requirements. I don't see many takers for this visa program.
 

Nimbus

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
1,483
I think 2 milyar Rupiah is a bit steep per person, especially since it’s money sitting in a bank account earning little to nothing. Halve the amount and it would be more reasonable.
 

Balifrog

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2017
Messages
320
Mauritius offers a decent "digital nomad" visa... Google it.
And it is a nice, multicultural place, with nice beaches.

Was on my retirement list of possible places.
 

snpark

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Sep 30, 2016
Messages
2,041
I think even a US green card can be had for $500k if you buy a property in certain states.

Point is it's a lot of money just to sit on a beach considering all the bureaucratic nonsense here

A beach is a beach pretty much everywhere. It's the 12hours a day not on the beach that decides which beach to live on. Here you'd be half the time in immigration

Malaysia, Phils, Thailand etc you turn up once every 5 years for a pic and probably they come to you instead.

Certainly being a wealthy expat in those 3 countries gets you a lot more kudos than here where they just trying to extract it from you.
I remember years ago in Thailand one promo you were almost treated like a God if you retired there with special vip services everywhere in malls airports restaurants etc
 

dafluff

Moderator
Moderator
Cager
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
3,938
IDR 2 billion for a 5-year visa is hilariously out-of-touch. Far better programs already exist around the world, including those that allow dual citizenship/permanent residency with full rights (work, live, buying property). Even within Indonesia there already exists retirement visas and investor visas that are cheaper. I really don't see who the target market is for this.

They should just make $10,000 yearly KITAS available, or something along those lines.
 

R Cameron

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
804
Even within Indonesia there already exists retirement visas and investor visas that are cheaper. I really don't see who the target market is for this.
It seems as though Sandiaga has been throwing many ideas "against the wall" and I'm sure many experts in immigration, tourism, and investment are quietly telling him behind the scenes that each of these ideas is deeply flawed.
 

Follow Us

Latest Expat Indo Articles

Latest Activity

Latest Tweets by Expat Indo

Newest Members

Forum Statistics

Threads
4,722
Messages
72,152
Members
2,070
Latest member
michaelgellar
Top Bottom