Trump Indicted for Conspiracy To Change the 2020 Election

[Nimbus]

These geniuses called for a national defunding of the police. 60% is still very high imo.

Some people who support immigrant rights are calling for the abolishment (not defunding) of the ICE. Others who support gun rights call for the abolishment (not defunding) of the ATF. Both are stupid.

Despite being a victim of discrimination and occasional brutality by the police, why did they half ass it and merely called to defund the police? That’s because they don’t want to abolish the police, that would be stupid. What they want is to stop throwing money and military hardware at the police and further militarizing them. Take some of that money for actual crime prevention effort through community and social programs.

How 9/11 helped to militarize American law enforcement | Brookings

Rashawn Ray writes that in light of 9/11 and America's overseas wars, policy makers should critically re-evaluate the benefits or costs (financial and human costs) associated with military equipment programs for law enforcement.

www.brookings.edu

Policing used to be about maintaining the peace, now they call themselves “Law Enforcement” and act like their job is nothing more than to be legislator attack dogs.

If I were BLM’s media consultant, I would have advised them to use a different word. Alas, it’s a movement, not quite a centralized organization, so PR is not their strong suit.

 

[harryopal1]

I’ve had several interactions with the police, and sadly I have to report that most were unpleasant, despite me being nothing but polite and compliant.

Again, double standard.

Can we take it from this remark you are black?

 

[Nimbus]

I suppose reasons more people didn't support BLM were because of its racial exclusivity, violent protests, ludicrous demands, and it effectively being a corporate scam run for the financial benefit of its founders.
I wouldn't equate seeing BLM as misguided with support for Trump. I know a lot of folks who have disdain for both.

BLM is a movement, not a monolithic centralized organization. The vast majority of the protests (93%) were peaceful, but it never stopped about 42% of people to think that protesters were trying to incite violence and destroy property. Now where did I hear this 40-ish percent figure again…?

Demonstrations and Political Violence in America: New Data for Summer 2020

Preliminary analysis of key trends from May to August.

acleddata.com

 

[Nimbus]

Can we take it from this remark you are black?

No, brown.

 

[harryopal1]

While much of this discussion has been about US police, law enforcement is notable here for the way criminals without social distinction are arrested and apparently punished by police. The presentation for TV of poorer criminals often shows them with bandaged legs which we might take it has been to do with them helping police with their enquiries. Police evidently aren't required to have search warrants and those involved with chasing drug dealers always seem to burst into home or apartments with guns drawn. But then somehow of Trump's status, or even what we might call middle class or monied, is handled with great respect and caution.

 

[harryopal1]

No, brown.

Ahh well. There you go. Not white so obviously dangerous. My late, black American wife living in Australia found it depressing that whenever entering a large store she was invariably followed by security.

 

[Nimbus]

Ahh well. There you go. Not white so obviously dangerous. My late, black American wife living in Australia found it depressing that whenever entering a large store she was invariably followed by security.

Stores in America or Australia?

 

[Bob]

BLM is a movement, not a monolithic centralized organization. The vast majority of the protests (93%) were peaceful, but it never stopped about 42% of people to think that protesters were trying to incite violence and destroy property. Now where did I hear this 40-ish percent figure again…?

Demonstrations and Political Violence in America: New Data for Summer 2020

Preliminary analysis of key trends from May to August.

acleddata.com

BLM's an organization in the lead of a movement. They got millions in donations from corporate America and elsewhere; the checks had to be made to a legal entity. From their website: https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/
Most of their demonstrations were peaceful but enough weren't to put people off of them.

 

[Nimbus]

BLM's an organization in the lead of a movement. They got millions in donations from corporate America and elsewhere; the checks had to be made to a legal entity. From their website: https://blacklivesmatter.com/about/
Most of their demonstrations were peaceful but enough weren't to put people off of them.

Black Lives Matter is a movement, then somebody created an organization with the same name purporting to support the network. That legal organization doesn’t call the shots.

Black Lives Matter (BLM)

Black Lives Matter (BLM) is an international activist movement, originating in the African-American community, that campaigns against violence and systemic racism toward black people. BLM regularly protests police killings of black people and broader issues of racial profiling, police brutality...

www.loc.gov

 

[Bob]

Some people who support immigrant rights are calling for the abolishment (not defunding) of the ICE. Others who support gun rights call for the abolishment (not defunding) of the ATF. Both are stupid.

Despite being a victim of discrimination and occasional brutality by the police, why did they half ass it and merely called to defund the police? That’s because they don’t want to abolish the police, that would be stupid. What they want is to stop throwing money and military hardware at the police and further militarizing them. Take some of that money for actual crime prevention effort through community and social programs.

How 9/11 helped to militarize American law enforcement | Brookings

Rashawn Ray writes that in light of 9/11 and America's overseas wars, policy makers should critically re-evaluate the benefits or costs (financial and human costs) associated with military equipment programs for law enforcement.

www.brookings.edu

Policing used to be about maintaining the peace, now they call themselves “Law Enforcement” and act like their job is nothing more than to be legislator attack dogs.

If I were BLM’s media consultant, I would have advised them to use a different word. Alas, it’s a movement, not quite a centralized organization, so PR is not their strong suit.

The surplus military equipment going to US police, and a lot of training in the last 30 or so years, has indeed helped to worsen their attitude toward the masses. A growing share of US local police view the populace as the 'other' to be controlled.
That attitude has been trending for a lot longer than 22 years (they were 'law enforcement' in the 80's if not before), and it's directed against everyone, not just black folks.
If BLM wanted to help society and effectively combat police brutality in the US, they'd call themselves ALM and have inclusive membership policies. They'll sure take anyone's money though.

 

[Bob]

Black Lives Matter is a movement, then somebody created an organization with the same name purporting to support the network. That legal organization doesn’t call the shots.

Black Lives Matter (BLM)

Black Lives Matter (BLM) is an international activist movement, originating in the African-American community, that campaigns against violence and systemic racism toward black people. BLM regularly protests police killings of black people and broader issues of racial profiling, police brutality...

www.loc.gov

Who does call the shots?

 

[harryopal1]

Stores in America or Australia?

Well, living in Townsville, northern Qld, Australia. The city was named after Robert Towns, known for his involvement in blackbirding and labour exploitation of Pacific Island, immigrant workers. "Blackbirding" is a term used to describe a process where Islanders were often kidnapped or inveigled aboard ships with "contracts" that had them as cheap labour or slaves working on sugar cane plantations.

 

[Nimbus]

The surplus military equipment going to US police, and a lot of training in the last 30 or so years, has indeed helped to worsen their attitude toward the masses. A growing share of US local police view the populace as the 'other' to be controlled.
That attitude has been trending for a lot longer than 22 years (they were 'law enforcement' in the 80's if not before), and it's directed against everyone, not just black folks.
If BLM wanted to help society and effectively combat police brutality in the US, they'd call themselves ALM and have inclusive membership policies. They'll sure take anyone's money though.

You’re still talking as if BLM is nothing but a top-down organization. This is about as valid as calling Tea Party Patriots the embodiment of the Tea Party movement.

Further discussion is fruitless if this is your stance.

 

[Nimbus]

Well, living in Townsville, northern Qld, Australia. The city was named after Robert Towns, known for his involvement in blackbirding and labour exploitation of Pacific Island, immigrant workers. "Blackbirding" is a term used to describe a process where Islanders were often kidnapped or inveigled aboard ships with "contracts" that had them as cheap labour or slaves working on sugar cane plantations.

Ah, in America such contracts were called indentured servitude or involuntary servitude. They weren’t outlawed until the 13th amendment to the constitution was ratified in 1865.

 

[Hawk256]

Let's be clear that just like most BLM protests were peaceful, most interactions with law enforcement are fair for everyone involved. Even if a bad one happened once per month, that is a very small number compared to the sheer number of police interactions people have daily. Of course even one is too many but there is no such thing as a perfect system.

 

[centurion]

Well, living in Townsville, northern Qld, Australia. The city was named after Robert Towns, known for his involvement in blackbirding and labour exploitation of Pacific Island, immigrant workers. "Blackbirding" is a term used to describe a process where Islanders were often kidnapped or inveigled aboard ships with "contracts" that had them as cheap labour or slaves working on sugar cane plantations.

To be honest it was a widespread acitvity across all races and nations in sailboats in the 19th century, called shanghaiing.

Shanghaiing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Bob]

You’re still talking as if BLM is nothing but a top-down organization. This is about as valid as calling Tea Party Patriots the embodiment of the Tea Party movement.

Further discussion is fruitless if this is your stance.

Who does call the shots for them if it's not the folks with the website?

 

[fastpitch17]

While much of this discussion has been about US police, law enforcement is notable here for the way criminals without social distinction are arrested and apparently punished by police. The presentation for TV of poorer criminals often shows them with bandaged legs which we might take it has been to do with them helping police with their enquiries. Police evidently aren't required to have search warrants and those involved with chasing drug dealers always seem to burst into home or apartments with guns drawn. But then somehow of Trump's status, or even what we might call middle class or monied, is handled with great respect and caution.

I laugh and sigh everytime I see one of those bandaged legs on someone arrested. It is always associated with the suspect attempting to escape. So many times I have to wonder just how the red blood spot on the bandage ends up in the front of the leg when they were trying to flee. Were they running at the officers? The dead ones were either resisting arrest or were in a shootout. Never wounded and gave up.

 

[harryopal1]

I laugh and sigh everytime I see one of those bandaged legs on someone arrested. It is always associated with the suspect attempting to escape. So many times I have to wonder just how the red blood spot on the bandage ends up in the front of the leg when they were trying to flee. Were they running at the officers? The dead ones were either resisting arrest or were in a shootout. Never wounded and gave up.

I seem to recall many cases where a suspect has been arrested and in good health, as, it were, and then to emerge for the TV parade with bandaged legs after helping police with their enquiries. Of course it may be that being desperadoes they have tried to escape while in the depths of the police headquarters.

 

[Nimbus]

Who does call the shots?

Nobody.

It seems like you were never part of a movement? Not even the Tea Party?

I was part of the Reformasi movement that eventually pushed Suharto to resign back in 1998. Those who supported the movement were fed up by his corruption and especially alarmed by his attempt to create a dynasty by installing his daughter as a minister. Along with thousands of students, I was in the parliament complex the day he stepped down.

There was no shot caller. There were several loosely affiliated organizations, but nobody had the authority to order anybody around. There wasn’t even membership and dues.

One of the worst excesses of the movement, and part of the expression of people’s anger was the riots in May 1998. Did somebody from the movement tell people to loot & burn half of Jakarta and kill hundreds? No. Did we want it? Hell no. We tried to stop it, but nobody listened.