So, the new Energy and Minerals Minister may be a US Citizen

[dafluff]

This weekend, news outlets report that the newly appointed Energy and Minerals Minister Arcandra Tahar may have obtained US citizenship in 2012. This makes sense, as he has been studying and living in the US since 1996. He could have had applied for a green card after obtaining his PhD at Texas A&M in 2001, under the EB-1 visa scheme, and gained citizenship as early as 5 years after his green card has been issued.

Now he hasn't explicitly denied it, which to me is telling. He gave a classic non-denial when asked about his citizenship by journalists at the State Palace on Friday. He replied, “Look at my face. It’s a Padang face.” That is definitely not a "no".

He now says that his status has been cleared up with the President, which again is not a "no".

In other commentary, ex-Indonesian Ambassador to the US, Dino Patti Djallal said that only Arcandra and the US government knows about Arcandra's citizenship status. Mr. Ambassador has clearly not heard about exit and entry stamps, or simply examining Arcandra's Indonesian passport to see if he had entered the US using a visa or not.

In today's (14 Aug) Kompas, Refly Harun, who is apparently a state law expert said that Arcandra could still be a minister if he resigns, and then Jokowi could rush his application for Indonesian citizenship, before reappointing him. As far as I know there are no mechanism in any law that allows for this, but I am not a law expert. As I understand the law right now, you still have to go KITAS->KITAP->SKIM, then apply for citizenship. I am not sure if the 5 year uninterrupted residency requirement (or 10 year interrupted) can be fulfilled with time previously spent in Indonesia as an Indonesian citizen. At any rate, if such a "rush" application is possible, that implies all former WNIs could return to Indonesia and obtain their WNI back almost immediately.

 

[El_Goretto]

At any rate, if such a "rush" application is possible, that implies all former WNIs could return to Indonesia and obtain their WNI back almost immediately.

In the best of worlds, it could pave the way for this to happen. But we all know that here, in Indonesia, it will absolutely not happen and that as usual, the law applies differently to the elite of this country.

 

[atlantis]

In today's (14 Aug) Kompas, Refly Harun, who is apparently a state law expert said that Arcandra could still be a minister if he resigns, and then Jokowi could rush his application for Indonesian citizenship, before reappointing him. As far as I know there are no mechanism in any law that allows for this, but I am not a law expert. As I understand the law right now, you still have to go KITAS->KITAP->SKIM, then apply for citizenship. I am not sure if the 5 year uninterrupted residency requirement (or 10 year interrupted) can be fulfilled with time previously spent in Indonesia as an Indonesian citizen. At any rate, if such a "rush" application is possible, that implies all former WNIs could return to Indonesia and obtain their WNI back almost immediately.

I agree with Pak Refly. It could be only a matter of weeks for Arcandra to be a legally acceptable Indonesian citizen.

Pasal 20 Undang Undang nomor 12 tahun 2006 is the one supporting it, Dafluff. It reads:

Orang asing yang telah berjasa kepada negara Republik Indonesia atau dengan alasan kepentingan negara dapat diberi Kewarganegaraan Republik Indonesia oleh Presiden setelah memperoleh pertimbangan Dewan Perwakilan Rakyat Republik Indonesia, kecuali dengan pemberian kewarganegaraan tersebut mengakibatkan yang bersangkutan berkewarganegaraan ganda.

The above is further detailed in the Elucidation/Penjelasan of the law as follow:

Yang dimaksud dengan "orang asing yang telah berjasa kepada negara Republik Indonesia" adalah orang asing yang karena prestasinya yang luar biasa di bidang kemanusiaan, ilmu pengetahuan dan teknologi, kebudayaan, lingkungan hidup, serta keolahragaan telah memberikan kemajuan dan keharuman nama bangsa Indonesia.
Yang dimaksud dengan "orang asing yang diberi kewarganegaraan karena alasan kepentingan negara" adalah orang asing yang dinilai oleh negara telah dan dapat memberikan sumbangan yang luar biasa untuk kepentingan memantapkan kedaulatan negara dan untuk meningkatkan kemajuan, khususnya di bidang perekonomian Indonesia.

As you see, the second paragraph matches perfectly the situation. Any non citizen may be granted Indonesian citizenship for having or being able to give outstanding benefits to the nation which may enhance the country's development, especially Indonesia's economy.

Should the DPR being unkind or willing to embarass Joko, he may even bypass them by asking the govt to pass a Perpu, arguing of teh fact that the nomination of Arcandra is an emergency. Getting a certificate stating that Arcandra is not anymore a US citizen (if he is/has been) should take a matter of minutes, if it is not already ready. What nation would try to be a pain with the future ESDM minister of Indonesia. The US? Certainly not since they have a LOT of interest here and that helping Arcandra may be an added opportunity.

I know personally a guy (not a savior of the nation, just a simple guy who is skilled with his feet and a round ball) who benefited of art. 20 and can testify that he had not 5 years + SKIM in his file but the agreement of the President at this time.

 

[PhilippeD]

Long time ago I had write in the old forum this kind of thing will happen.
More and more kid of rich are going studying abroad and allow them to gain double citizenship. With time situation like the one of Arcandra Tahar will happen more and more oftenly.
I believe this is paving (slowly) the road to double citizenship.

I have trouble to see how it cold hurt so much the nationalistic to allow to have double citizenship.
Before, it was created for not allow foreigner to hold Indonesian citizen
Today, it's the other side of the blade that hit by not allowing Indonesian to hold double citizenship.

Give it 5 to 10 year...

 

[Davita]

Re: Post # 1 by Dafluff

Thanks for sourcing this personally interesting post for the following reason...

My wife was born in Ambon to Jakarta parents (her dad was Ambon Police Chief). She went to school in Jakarta and was an Indonesia Ambassador for SE Asian Youth Program (SEAYP) sponsored by the Japanese and consisted of cruising around Asia making good term relationships.
She worked as a secretary in Jakarta until becoming a Flight Attendant (her dream) for a Hong Kong airline.
We met there and married and, when I retired, we both Immigrated and eventually became Canadians...over 23 years ago....when the RI passport made travel very difficult. I kept my previous UK citizenship (dual) but she was forced to relinquish hers.

We have now retired to Bali/Jakarta and she has to use a retirement Kitap to live in her own country...as a foreigner.

Therefore, it will be interesting to see how this Cabinet Minister responds if he truthfully is a USA citizen....and if your opinion that all previous WNI should be treated equally.

I await... Wednesday.

 

[atlantis]

Now he hasn't explicitly denied it, which to me is telling. He gave a classic non-denial when asked about his citizenship by journalists at the State Palace on Friday. He replied, “Look at my face. It’s a Padang face.”.

This, to me, is the shocking part and should be called out.

Does it mean that if you are cipit (as in being an Indonesian of chinese descent) or too white (as in being of -western- bule extraction) your Indonesian citizenship should/could be questioned?

I just can't imagine a minister in my native country saying to the medias questioning his citizenship: "Look at my face, it's a french face". Such sentence would create an uproar and would have add him doing a public apology minutes after saying it.

 

[atlantis]

if your opinion that all previous WNI should be treated equally.

There is a potential confusion here. Arcandra, if he is an US citizen and if he is granted WNI status, won't have his citizenship granted as a former WNI. It will not even be mentioned in his SK. He will be granted WNI status because his achievement and potential benefit for the nation are deemed OUTSTANDING and hugely profitable in the economical area, by the President.

It's a different process as what we call pewarganegaraan (naturalization) which is the process your wife, I or most foreigner would have to go through.

 

[PhilippeD]

There is a potential confusion here. Arcandra, if he is an US citizen and if he is granted WNI status, won't have his citizenship granted as a former WNI. It will not even be mentioned in his SK. He will be granted WNI status because his achievement and potential benefit for the nation are deemed OUTSTANDING and hugely profitable in the economical area, by the President.

But still... he will hate to have to lose his US citizenship... even if I'm sure he will just "hide" his US passport for a while and "illegally" hold both... nobody care!
Anyway, he was already doing this, I don't think he was a minister under a KITAS. That would had been funny!

 

[Nimbus]

I think somebody at his level would gladly accept Indonesian citizenship, even if it means renouncing his U.S. citizenship.

As Indonesia discovers more and more people like him, eventually the government would wise up and allow dual citizenship, perhaps with limited privileges like no right to vote and no ability to serve in the military.

 

[atlantis]

But still... he will hate to have to lose his US citizenship... even if I'm sure he will just "hide" his US passport for a while and "illegally" hold both...

To make it short:

• he will require a statement from the US Embassy attesting that he won't be a US citizen anymore at the completion of the procedure to gain WNI status. I am keen to believe that, in order to sign such statement, the US authority will make sure they will get his passport back.
• Honestly, believing that he will hate to have to lose his US citizenship is a bit off mark, imho. He applied for US citizenship at a time he needed it. Being the ESDM minister should put him way above the need of immigrating in another country, for all the benefit he may gain while being on duty or even after. He is a minister, PhilippeD, not anymore a student or a TKI (no offense intended to any of these two categories)

As an addit to my previous posts, here are the requirements and documents he will have to fulfill and submit:

a. fotokopi akte kelahiran;
b. daftar riwayat hidup;
c. surat pernyataan setia kepada Negara Kesatuan Republik Indonesia yang berdasarkan Pancasila dan Undang-Undang Dasar Negara Republik Indonesia Tahun 1945;
d. surat pernyataan bersedia menjadi Warga Negara Indonesia dan melepaskan kewarganegaraan asalnya;
e. fotokopi paspor atau surat yang bersifat paspor yang masih berlaku;
f. surat keterangan dari perwakilan negara Orang Asing yang diusulkan bahwa yang bersangkutan akan kehilangan kewarganegaraan yang dimilikinya setelah memperoleh Kewarganegaraan Republik Indonesia;
g. surat rekomendasi yang berisi pertimbangan bahwa Orang Asing yang diusulkan layak untuk diberikan kewarganegaraan karena jasanya atau alasan kepentingan negara; dan
h. pas foto terbaru berwarna ukuran 4X6 (empat kali enam) sentimeter sebanyak 6 (enam) lembar

 

[atlantis]

I think somebody at his level would gladly accept Indonesian citizenship, even if it means renouncing his U.S. citizenship.

You beat me to it by 4 minutes.

 

[fastpitch17]

I think somebody at his level would gladly accept Indonesian citizenship, even if it means renouncing his U.S. citizenship.

As Indonesia discovers more and more people like him, eventually the government would wise up and allow dual citizenship, perhaps with limited privileges like no right to vote and no ability to serve in the military.

Renouncing US Citizenship now has a price tag associated with it. I think they will just let it go and say nothing in hopes it is forgotten about as soon as another issue arises for the press and history says that won't be long.

 

[Davita]

Whilst appreciating Atlantis' knowledge of law...and his incredibly French handsome look...I have to agree with El_Goretto..."the law applies differently to the elite of this country."

Cronyism is alive and well in the Federal Gov't but I'm interested to see if any upset in the Jakarta Governor election. Ahok doesn't bow to any crony partisanship...we'll have to wait to see if Jakartan voters agree.

 

[dafluff]

I agree with Pak Refly. It could be only a matter of weeks for Arcandra to be a legally acceptable Indonesian citizen.

Pasal 20 Undang Undang nomor 12 tahun 2006 is the one supporting it, Dafluff. It reads:

Orang asing yang telah berjasa kepada negara Republik Indonesia atau dengan alasan kepentingan negara dapat diberi Kewarganegaraan Republik Indonesia oleh Presiden setelah memperoleh pertimbangan Dewan Perwakilan Rakyat Republik Indonesia, kecuali dengan pemberian kewarganegaraan tersebut mengakibatkan yang bersangkutan berkewarganegaraan ganda.

The above is further detailed in the Elucidation/Penjelasan of the law as follow:

Yang dimaksud dengan "orang asing yang telah berjasa kepada negara Republik Indonesia" adalah orang asing yang karena prestasinya yang luar biasa di bidang kemanusiaan, ilmu pengetahuan dan teknologi, kebudayaan, lingkungan hidup, serta keolahragaan telah memberikan kemajuan dan keharuman nama bangsa Indonesia.
Yang dimaksud dengan "orang asing yang diberi kewarganegaraan karena alasan kepentingan negara" adalah orang asing yang dinilai oleh negara telah dan dapat memberikan sumbangan yang luar biasa untuk kepentingan memantapkan kedaulatan negara dan untuk meningkatkan kemajuan, khususnya di bidang perekonomian Indonesia.

As you see, the second paragraph matches perfectly the situation. Any non citizen may be granted Indonesian citizenship for having or being able to give outstanding benefits to the nation which may enhance the country's development, especially Indonesia's economy.

Should the DPR being unkind or willing to embarass Joko, he may even bypass them by asking the govt to pass a Perpu, arguing of teh fact that the nomination of Arcandra is an emergency. Getting a certificate stating that Arcandra is not anymore a US citizen (if he is/has been) should take a matter of minutes, if it is not already ready. What nation would try to be a pain with the future ESDM minister of Indonesia. The US? Certainly not since they have a LOT of interest here and that helping Arcandra may be an added opportunity.

I know personally a guy (not a savior of the nation, just a simple guy who is skilled with his feet and a round ball) who benefited of art. 20 and can testify that he had not 5 years + SKIM in his file but the agreement of the President at this time.

Thanks for digging this one out. I did not know Indonesia has a "special persons" clause for fast tracking citizenship. On the other hand, I do hope that exposing these types of situation will in the future pave way for a reasonable dual citizenship policy, as there doesn't seem to be any drawback to allowing that, other than nationalistic bullshit.

 

[dafluff]

I think somebody at his level would gladly accept Indonesian citizenship, even if it means renouncing his U.S. citizenship.

As Indonesia discovers more and more people like him, eventually the government would wise up and allow dual citizenship, perhaps with limited privileges like no right to vote and no ability to serve in the military.

I don't know that it is as easy a decision to make. As Anies and Jonan and numerous other ex-ministers will tell you, your term as a minister in Indonesia has little to do with ability or achievements, but more on where the political winds are blowing. I'd hate to renounce a US citizenship and give up cozy jobs in the US for a minister position that may last only a couple of years or less.

I do agree with the hopes that RI will eventually allow a reasonable dual citizenship scheme.

 

[Banana72]

Renouncing US Citizenship now has a price tag associated with it. I think they will just let it go and say nothing in hopes it is forgotten about as soon as another issue arises for the press and history says that won't be long.

I second this.

 

[wombat]

Dino Patti Djallal started a push to put the dual-citizenship issue on the agenda for diasporas. I even attended one of the seminars in Jakarta's convention center a while back. Anyone know where this issue is in the govenrnment's scheme of things?

 

[Dan]

My suspicion has always been that some of Indonesia's elite hold dual citizenship and never relinquish it. I can't confirm that, mind you, but this case doesn't surprise me.

This will not be a path to dual citizenship for our spouses, children and friends. It'll be business as usual.

 

[godmachine12]

My suspicion has always been that some of Indonesia's elite hold dual citizenship and never relinquish it. I can't confirm that, mind you, but this case doesn't surprise me.

This will not be a path to dual citizenship for our spouses, children and friends. It'll be business as usual.

Dead on. I reckon there are loads of elites with two passports; and I'm sure some with more than just two. While it's impossible to say whether this minister actually holds or ever held American citizenship, his response is less than convincing to say the least.

 

[atlantis]

Anyone know where this issue is in the govenrnment's scheme of things?

It hasn't moved much forward, Wombat. Though the amendment to the law is listed in the Prolegnas 2015-2019, it has a few detractors, among them two prominent lobbies: POLRI and BIN who considered that such amendment would pose a potentially serious threat to national security and the unity of NKRI. No kidding. Perhaps they should be told that dual citizenship is accepted in many countries in the world without having endangered State security.