Mosque loudspeakers

[scouser59]

If I were Muslim, I would -just like the old guy in Aceh- sue the hell out of them. He got results.

But I’m not so I can’t. And to show even more defeatism; the good friends and neighbors who are and also grumble to me in private, are too afraid to complain or take action and be called a kafir or bad Muslim.

What many people don’t seem to understand, is that even from the own religion there are very clear rules; only used for a call for prayer, not for preaching, no children allowed. Etc.

But the guidelines from the Ministry had the opposite effect; it is much louder and much more often since then. As examples; now we have preaching via the loudspeakers every Tuesday and Thursday evening next to Friday lunchtime of course. Saturday and Sunday it’s often karaoke time for the kids. Consistently not only before the prayer, but also after the prayer there is singing. And I can go on and on and on and…..

As said so often over here; if you go to Dubai, Malaysia or even Morocco etc. you won’t encounter this. It’s just a matter of time before Bali will be the same btw.

I doubt bali will arrive at the same misery level of java etc, I enjoy the "dawn chorus" of the birds in the forest nearby .

 

[serious_fun]

One wonders if the volume levels of loudspeakers (which I'll refer to with all due respect as "noise") has the same negative effects on academic achievement in Indonesia as it has elsewhere around the world. Not just listening skills, but memory performance, motivation, etc. has been shown to suffer with long term exposure to environmental/background noise. Even if the 'noise' is early in the morning, it will have an effect on young brains.

 

[ChrisTex]

Nimbus had shared something about this somewhere on the forum. In a nutshell some of it has to do with trying to draw people to a mosque instead of people going to another mosque.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

One wonders if the volume levels of loudspeakers (which I'll refer to with all due respect as "noise") has the same negative effects on academic achievement in Indonesia as it has elsewhere around the world. Not just listening skills, but memory performance, motivation, etc. has been shown to suffer with long term exposure to environmental/background noise. Even if the 'noise' is early in the morning, it will have an effect on young brains.

It is definitely a big contributory factor to the country's lack of achievement on the world stage. All that disrupted sleep and not to mention the unhealthy binge eating during ramadhan has long term effects. Indonesia will never stop being a developing country until they can leave these things behind. On the other hand, the fact people don't drink much alcohol here is a positive factor.

 

[Hawk256]

One wonders if the volume levels of loudspeakers (which I'll refer to with all due respect as "noise") has the same negative effects on academic achievement in Indonesia as it has elsewhere around the world. Not just listening skills, but memory performance, motivation, etc. has been shown to suffer with long term exposure to environmental/background noise. Even if the 'noise' is early in the morning, it will have an effect on young brains.

In all fairness I have lived in other countries and noise complaints are pretty common thoughout the world but for different reasons. For example I have lived in countires (Thailand is just one example) that have a commnity loudspeaker for announcements in the morning before playing the national anthem and then again in the evening for announcements and the national anthem again. You can be assured that someone in the neighborhood with have a loud party at least one night of the week and then a big event for 2 or 3 days once a month somewhere within hearing distance. Try spending a night in a big city anywhere in the world and deal with sirens and people shuffling about at all hours. Noise is everywhere and most people adjust to what is "normal" for their surroundings.

 

[Hawk256]

It is definitely a big contributory factor to the country's lack of achievement on the world stage. All that disrupted sleep and not to mention the unhealthy binge eating during ramadhan has long term effects. Indonesia will never stop being a developing country until they can leave these things behind. On the other hand, the fact people don't drink much alcohol here is a positive factor.

That's a pretty big jump to make, don't you think? How does a nuisance noise (to some), possibly disrupting someone's sleep (that happens to some degree thoughout to world for different reasons) for a few minutes and overeating on occasion keep a county from achieving anything? How do those two minor things affect a countries development?

 

[Pak Tani]

(This is your moment to shine, Herbert! Show 'em your research.)

 

[jstar]

noise complaints are pretty common around the world

It’s the excess noise we are addressing here. I’m writing this at 8.44 AM on a Sunday morning and the singing started at 5.30 AM.

The five times per day Adhan (call for prayer) is something we’re used to and respect. But that’s not what we talk about and probably something you could compare to playing one minute of a national anthem in public places at 8 AM and 6 PM.

And a buzzing city life in large cities? That’s a real cliché, we are not udik who are not used to anything, many of us have been expats practically all our lives and lived all around the world so trust me, we don’t compare this situation to nowhereville while living with mom.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Well I have just researched it and Thailand is a developing country too, so that kind of proves my point. It certainly doesn't happen in any developed country I know (eg Western or Central European country), or the US or Australia. If people tried to set off a 110Db loudspeaker at 3.30am every day in the US (continuing for an hour), they would probably last 3 days until they were shot. Traffic noise is everywhere where there is traffic, but voluntarily attacking one's neighbours with sound in the middle of the night is something that is not tolerated in the civilised world, with good reason.

 

[jstar]

(This is your moment to shine, Herbert! Show 'em your research.)

Don’t forget the lack of Iodine!

But in all seriousness; there are many studies * showing that frequent and loud noise and sleep deprivation has a very bad effect on people’s well being and behavior. For instance living close to an airport or highway.

I think that people who have not seen the effects of a fasting month ** on the daily business and economy, have or never lived and worked on Java, or have been here for a very short time only. Even the calls for prayer and Friday routine already have a certain effect, it almost looks like half of your office employees smoke and need constant smoking breaks (outside!).


* https://hms.harvard.edu/magazine/viral-world/effects-noise-health
** https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w19768/w19768.pdf

 

[Pak Tani]

Don’t forget the lack of Iodine!

But in all seriousness; there are many studies * showing that frequent and loud noise and sleep deprivation has a very bad effect on people’s well being and behavior. For instance living close to an airport or highway.

I think that people who have not seen the effects of a fasting month ** on the daily business and economy, have or never lived and worked on Java, or have been here for a very short time only. Even the calls for prayer and Friday routine already have a certain effect, it almost looks like half of your office employees smoke and need constant smoking breaks (outside!).


* https://hms.harvard.edu/magazine/viral-world/effects-noise-health
** https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w19768/w19768.pdf

Here we live less than 50 meters away from a mushollah and believe me, I know what noise pollution is. We are treated to the VIP package daily. It starts early with cassettes in the morning, then someone reciting some adzkaar, then the call to prayer itself followed by more adzkaar. After the prayer we are not there yet and the whole neighborhood has to listen to recitations. In the afternoon it's the children's turn...
This is annoying, even for a Muslim like me. Fortunately, the musholla was there before we built our house, so we could take the noise into account: no windows and angin-angin on that side of the house.
We do not disagree with regard to the harmful effects of noise pollution on physical and mental health. This can have far-reaching consequences, especially when noise pollution interrupts sleep. Also with regard to the amount of work that is done during Ramadan, I agree. This will be less, especially in professions that require heavy physical work. Thanks for the added links.

What I disagree with are the claims made in post #84:

- It (noise pollution from mosques) is definitely a big contributory factor for Indonesia's lack of achievement on the world stage
-Somehow the 'binge eating' during Ramadhan is so bad that it is also linked (to the lack of achievement of Indonesia on the world stage?)
-Indonesia can only become a developed nation if the above-mentioned noise pollution and binge eating are stopped.

 

[Hawk256]

It sounds like a lot of the complaints are coming from areas that have more than the standard 5 calls per day for some reason. Maybe I have been lucky but I haven't experienced this issue in Indonesia. I have traveled the country a good bit over the past 5 years, so if it's that widespread, I'm a litle suprised I haven't heard it at least once. With that being said, I can understand the complaints. If it is just the standard 5 calls per day, then I would say that it's just life in Indoneisa but I guess the same could be said for abuse of the Mosque loudspeaker as well according to how wide spread it actually is.

 

[Hawk256]

Well I have just researched it and Thailand is a developing country too, so that kind of proves my point. It certainly doesn't happen in any developed country I know (eg Western or Central European country), or the US or Australia. If people tried to set off a 110Db loudspeaker at 3.30am every day in the US (continuing for an hour), they would probably last 3 days until they were shot. Traffic noise is everywhere where there is traffic, but voluntarily attacking one's neighbours with sound in the middle of the night is something that is not tolerated in the civilised world, with good reason.

Nothing in my area starts at 3:30 am and continues for an hour. I hear a single call to prayer at the proper time and lasts for 3 minutes tops. In my travels in Indoneisa I have never heard what you describe in 5 years. Not saying that it doesn't exist but I have never encounterd it. If it did and it bothered me that bad, I would find somewhere else to live. No need to increase my own stress level. It sounds like you would be much happier living in the "civilized world" where you can yell at the kids everytime they get on your lawn.

 

[Pak Tani]

Nothing in my area starts at 3:30 am and continues for an hour. I hear a single call to prayer at the proper time and lasts for 3 minutes tops. In my travels in Indoneisa I have never heard what you describe in 5 years. Not saying that it doesn't exist but I have never encounterd it.

Are you sure your hearing is alright?

Where do you live??

 

[MamangDudul]

Nothing in my area starts at 3:30 am and continues for an hour. I hear a single call to prayer at the proper time and lasts for 3 minutes tops. In my travels in Indoneisa I have never heard what you describe in 5 years. Not saying that it doesn't exist but I have never encounterd it. If it did and it bothered me that bad, I would find somewhere else to live. No need to increase my own stress level. It sounds like you would be much happier living in the "civilized world" where you can yell at the kids everytime they get on your lawn.

I have the same experience in Batam. I live in a housing complex now, there are still 2 mosques nearby but it's all moderate and only "noisy" at the usual times, which doesn't bother me at all since it's normal as some people already mentioned. I feel like this place here is almost too quiet. At certain times you can here the smallest "noise" someone makes
Before that I lived in a Kampung and that was also the place I visited since almost 14 years. Same there, and the mosque was pretty close to our house. We would actually still live there, but ya that's another story.
So it really seems to depend on the place.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Nothing in my area starts at 3:30 am and continues for an hour. I hear a single call to prayer at the proper time and lasts for 3 minutes tops. In my travels in Indoneisa I have never heard what you describe in 5 years. Not saying that it doesn't exist but I have never encounterd it. If it did and it bothered me that bad, I would find somewhere else to live. No need to increase my own stress level. It sounds like you would be much happier living in the "civilized world" where you can yell at the kids everytime they get on your lawn.

Well in Jakarta the 3.30am start for one hour is very widespread in virtually the whole city. Luckily in our new house we don't hear it because we are far enough away from the mosque (yes that was the number one criteria when purchasing) and the bedroom is very well located within the house design, plus I use a fan for white noise. But everywhere else I have stayed has had it, and most friends have experienced it too. During Covid in the kampung we found it was much less than it is in Jakarta.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

What I disagree with are the claims made in post #84:

- It (noise pollution from mosques) is definitely a big contributory factor for Indonesia's lack of achievement on the world stage
-Somehow the 'binge eating' during Ramadhan is so bad that it is also linked (to the lack of achievement of Indonesia on the world stage?)
-Indonesia can only become a developed nation if the above-mentioned noise pollution and binge eating are stopped.

I would say the lack of achievement by Indonesia in general is not up for debate. Whether these issues are a symptom or a cause is debatable. The culture is of not working very hard, taking frequent breaks, shutting down for a month every year, not caring about education standards, having disrupted sleep and being tired at school or at work etc. All these things added together do not create a culture of high achievement and never will. However people seem happy as they are, so it's not a big problem for Indonesia to stay as it is. And for a foreigner it's more enjoyable than living in a high achieving hard working place like Singapore that's for sure.

 

[Hawk256]

Are you sure your hearing is alright?

Where do you live??

Obviosly if I hear the single call to prayer my hearing is fine. Live in Serpong now but lived in East Jakarta for a few years and traveled Indoneisa a lot before COVID. Maybe I have just been lucky to have not experieced it.

 

[Hawk256]

Well in Jakarta the 3.30am start for one hour is very widespread in virtually the whole city. Luckily in our new house we don't hear it because we are far enough away from the mosque (yes that was the number one criteria when purchasing) and the bedroom is very well located within the house design, plus I use a fan for white noise. But everywhere else I have stayed has had it, and most friends have experienced it too. During Covid in the kampung we found it was much less than it is in Jakarta.

I lived in East Jakarta for years and spent many nights in hotels across Jakarta and didn't have this experience and now you say you don't hear it in your new house? Traveling Indonesia for years and have never heard it (including a good time spent in the Padang area). Either the problem isn't that widespread or I have been extrememly lucky to not hear it.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

I think you've been lucky!
I lived right next to a loud mosque in my first 2 years in Jakarta, and it is one of the most traumatic experiences in my life. Not exaggerating.