Mobil Rakyat...new cars

[jstar]

The Toyota RAV4 was the best-selling car in the world in 2022 with 1.02 million units delivered worldwide last year. Although the RAV4 leads the way, last year sales were 10% lower than in 2021. Only 9% of all RAV4s found an owner in Europe, 43% were registered in the United States and Canada and 33% in China.

The number two is also a Toyota: the Corolla. It is mainly the sedan version but the Corolla Cross, the SUV / crossover version, is also doing rather well. Even in Indonesia, where you would pay approx. 460-500 juta for that (hybrid) model.

Also rather interesting is the number three: the Tesla Model Y. The electric crossover accounted for 747,000 deliveries in 2022, 91% more than in 2021. Of these, 44% had a Chinese owner, 34% an American or Canadian owner and 19% were sold in Europe.

The Honda CR-V comes in fourth place.

 

[jstar]

The number two is also a Toyota: the Corolla. It is mainly the sedan version but the Corolla Cross, the SUV / crossover version, is also doing rather well. Even in Indonesia, where you would pay approx. 460-500 juta for that (hybrid) model.

This is something you need to take into account when buying a new car here. The ‘local’ versions are not rather cheap for nothing. Obviously taxes play a big role; import is always more expensive than locally build and assembled.

But if you look closely, you see that the local cars do have older technologies on board, often have less safety features and inferior NCAP ratings and -not unimportantly- are not prone to many recalls. Of course that is very unlikely and points to a problem in maintenance and willingness to take action by the local organization.

You get what you pay for.

 

[Samoerai]

But if you look closely, you see that the local cars do have older technologies on board, often have less safety features and inferior NCAP ratings and -not unimportantly- are not prone to many recalls. Of course that is very unlikely and points to a problem in maintenance and willingness to take action by the local organization.

Awas ... If it's too good to be true ...

 

[jstar]

The Daihatsu Ayla, the city car, has a new -for Indonesia somewhat confusing- gear selection.

They added the letter B to the ‘automatic‘ gearbox. Now it was already rather unclear what the S means, Sport or Slope or both, and this B is completely new here.

Obviously the B stands for Brake. If you select it, the car brakes more on the engine when you release the accelerator. You can clearly feel that.

Rather useful for going downhill but many people always prefer this effect of a manual gearbox which makes it less necessary to hit the brake pedal. In many brands it can even activate the so called One-Pedal-Drive; you don’t need the brake pedal anymore, the car can slow down to a complete stop.

With electric (and hybrid) cars this setting has an added advantage; it regenerates and adds more power to the batteries while slowing down (and braking).

 

[Jaime C]

Bagus! We're looking seriously at a Veloz also, so it's good to know.

Well, we got the top of the line TSS model, as we’re looking to keep it for many years. Like the safety features on it. Seems to get pretty good mileage, too.

 

[Balifrog]

ALl the electric cars are IMO horribly boring looking. Even at 70 I wouldn't want to be seen in one.

The only ones that could pass the visual test are the VW IDBuzz and the CANOO

But anyway, old school, I like a car that does VROAM, VROAM and has needle gauges on the dashboard, not some bloody Ipad.

 

[jstar]

The thing with the ID Buzz is though, that if you would remove the dual tone, ignore the cool color scheme, you’d end up up with a VW Transporter look-a-like. Which is one of the most boring minivans.

 

[Balifrog]

The thing with the ID Buzz is though, that if you would remove the dual tone, ignore the cool color scheme, you’d end up up with a VW Transporter look-a-like. Which is one of the most boring minivans.

View attachment 3080

I had a VW camper when I lived in Britanny, France.
Windsurf board on the roof, blond girlfriend, life was anything but boring believe me !
Similar to this but white color.

The one on your pic is not a Transporter but a VW Combi Type 1 with split windshield.
Worth quite a bit of money in Europe now.

 

[jstar]

VW Combi T1……Worth quite a bit of money in Europe now.

Depends somewhat on the amount of windows. The 23 window version is rare and probably worth the most (followed by its 21 window successor).

All manufacturers try to get some kind of retro vibe (you would expect they learned from the Beetle but not really).

Of course Ford raped the Mustang name with the electric crossover car that has nothing to do with the original. I wouldn’t be surprised if they will use the Capri or Sierra name again as well.

Renault will come out with a new 5 and a 4 as electric versions.

And Volkswagen will be somewhat more traditional after the current electric ID gamut. They will introduce a ID.2 and ID.7 which will be much more Polo and Passat look-a-likes.

.

 

[Ruserious]

The ‘local’ versions are not rather cheap for nothing

But compared to most of the world i dont think they are cheap.

 

[jstar]

Well, depends what country you’re used to. And the ‘problem’ is most of these models don’t exist in hour home countries.

In India, China and the ASEAN region (except Singapore) you will find comparable cars with similar prices.

The Japanese ‘world cars’ are probably always cheapest in the USA, then Australia, then Indonesia, then Europe (depending on the taxation in the particular country). We’re talking about cars like the HR-V, CR-V, Accord, Camry, Corolla, RAV4, Outlander, Vitara, Rogue (X-Trail), Kicks, …. The European and premium brands are extremely expensive here of course.

But in the ‘western world’ a car like a Innova, Fortuner, Avanza, Brio, City, WR-V, XL-7, Livina and Xpander would be much more expensive and a model as Calya / Sigra or so can be called ultra cheap, even if you compare them to Dacia or Lada. Can you imagine, €9.000 / $10,000 for a crossover seven seater?

 

[fastpitch17]

The thing with the ID Buzz is though, that if you would remove the dual tone, ignore the cool color scheme, you’d end up up with a VW Transporter look-a-like. Which is one of the most boring minivans.

View attachment 3080

I'll take the one on the left please.

 

[jstar]

I'll take the one on the left please.

Sure. That will be $140,000 please. Cash or credit card?

You have to be careful with these ‘prices’ though. There are no fixed values. As we say in my language: “it’s what the crazy person is willing to pay for it”. And perhaps one day these oldtimers will end like the stamps. Also a lot of effort and money go into storage and keeping it in good shape.

Not so long ago I sold some of my cars. A lot of interested people but nobody was willing to pay anything close to the estimated price from experts at the auction house. I sold each for €30K-€35K less so wasn’t very happy. Perhaps it would have been better to move them to the US and put them on BAT since they were never sold there but that would have been a lot of effort without any guarantee of succes.

 

[Hawk256]

A lot of interested people but nobody was willing to pay anything close to the estimated price from experts at the auction house. I sold each for €30K-€35K less so wasn’t very happy.

That's the case with everything. The "experts" aren't the buyers. A lot of people in the US used to beliveve that the Kelley Blue Book was the definitle answer on what a used car is worth but KBB wasn't intersted in actually buying your car. Like you said, something is only worth what another person with the money is willing to pay.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

This electric car revolution is going very very slowly. I wish they could just speed the whole process up. We're several years down the line and hardly any electric cars or bikes on the roads. A lot of talk no action.

 

[jstar]

This electric car revolution is going very very slowly. I wish they could just speed the whole process up. We're several years down the line and hardly any electric cars or bikes on the roads. A lot of talk no action.

It’s the power of the car lobby and big oil. In Europe the car manufacturers fight the 2035 deadline to only sell electric vehicles. So Germany, Italy and France negotiated some kind of exemption for cars with combustion engines that can run on e-fuels.

Toyota and Honda (together with the Japanese government) have always been convinced it will be hydrogen in the far future but first they want to exploit the milk cow, the hybrid solution. In countries as Indonesia they are not even there yet and still use combustion engines which are 20+ years old. Etc etc.

In fact, besides Norway (and a bit The Netherlands), China is the only country where the electric vehicles are heavily pushed and the manufacturers and customers follow that path on a large scale.

 

[jstar]

Chinese car exports are on the rise. Last April, 70% more Chinese cars shipped abroad than the same month last year, pushing Japan back to number 2 and positioning China as the world's No. 1 car exporter, It was just a matter of time of course.

Last month, Chinese automakers exported 376,000 cars and in the first four months of 2023, 1.37 million Chinese cars went abroad, an increase of more than 89% compared to last year. Approx. 348,000 of them were electrified, according to figures from the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers.

In Indonesia we have Wuling, DFSK, BYD and Chery. Other Chinese registered brands of which I never saw a car on the road, are Great Wall Motor (the Cybertank!) and Weltmeister Motor.

 

[Hawk256]

This electric car revolution is going very very slowly. I wish they could just speed the whole process up. We're several years down the line and hardly any electric cars or bikes on the roads. A lot of talk no action.

The infastructure is not there, Need changing stations, extra power on the grids to handle those stations and most of the electriciy is coming from coal anyway. Electric cars are more expensive to purchase and will need crazy expensive battery replacments at some point. What are we going to do with all those dead battereis with hazardous chemicals? Exactly how are we winning with the rush to go electric? Manufacturing the electric car and battery does more damage to the environment than a gas car will do over it's lifetime. It isn't the savior that it is being made out to be.

 

[Balifrog]

And meanwhile we build tanks, jetfigthers, navy vessels like never before....

What a joke !

Germany closing nuclear powerplants to replace them with coal...

We stop buy Russian gas and now import fracked gas from the US.. Anybody checked the CO2 created by the liquefaction process + transport by ship + regazification process ? Not speaking about the environmental problems with fracking.
Cherry on the cake is fracking is prohibited in France for environmental reasons, but importing fracked gas from the US is acceptable.....

 

[R Cameron]

Manufacturing the electric car and battery does more damage to the environment than a gas car will do over it's lifetime.

What's your source for that?

Without a credible source I think I'll take the word of an MIT study over yours:

One source of EV emissions is the creation of their large lithium-ion batteries... This intensive battery manufacturing means that building a new EV can produce around 80% more emissions than building a comparable gas-powered car.

But just like with gasoline cars, most emissions from today’s EVs come after they roll off the production floor.3 ...

MIT’s report shows how much these stats can swing based on a few key factors. For example, when the researchers used the average carbon intensity of America’s power grid, they found that a fully electric vehicle emits about 25 percent less carbon than a comparable hybrid car. But if they ran the numbers assuming the EV would charge up in hydropower-heavy Washington State, they found it would emit 61 percent less carbon than the hybrid. When they did the math for coal-heavy West Virginia, the EV actually created more carbon emissions than the hybrid, but still less than the gasoline car.

In fact, Paltsev says, it’s difficult to find a comparison in which EVs fare worse than internal combustion. If electric vehicles had a shorter lifespan than gas cars, that would hurt their numbers because they would have fewer low-emissions miles on the road to make up for the carbon-intensive manufacture of their batteries. Yet when the MIT study calculated a comparison in which EVs lasted only 90,000 miles on the road rather than 180,000 miles, they remained 15 percent better than a hybrid and far better than a gas car.

https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-definitely-better-climate-gas-powered-cars

And not just that study, many other sources agree. This Reuters article looks at data and a model from a University of Chicago laboratory used by the US EPA:

If the electricity to recharge the EV comes entirely from coal, which generates the majority of the power in countries such as China and Poland, you would have to drive 78,700 miles to reach carbon parity with the Corolla, according to the Reuters analysis of data generated by Argonne's model.
...
But if the same Tesla was being driven in Norway, which generates almost all its electricity from renewable hydropower, the break-even point would come after just 8,400 miles.

It also includes the skeptical academic perspective:

Some are less positive about EVs.

University of Liege researcher Damien Ernst said in 2019 that the typical EV would have to travel nearly 700,000 km before it emitted less CO2 than a comparable gasoline vehicle. He later revised his figures down.

Now, he estimates the break-even point could be between 67,000 km and 151,000 km. Ernst told Reuters he did not plan to change those findings, which were based on a different set of data and assumptions than in Argonne's model.

151k kilometers is easily attainable in most vehicles.

The only type of people who say EVs are worse:

Some other groups also continue to argue that EVs are not necessarily cleaner or greener than fossil-fueled cars.

The American Petroleum Institute, which represents over 600 companies in the oil industry, states on its website: "Multiple studies show that, on a life-cycle basis, different automobile powertrains result in similar greenhouse gas emissions."