Mobil Rakyat...new cars

[Hawk256]

What's your source for that?

Without a credible source I think I'll take the word of an MIT study over yours:

https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-definitely-better-climate-gas-powered-cars

And not just that study, many other sources agree. This Reuters article looks at data and a model from a University of Chicago laboratory used by the US EPA:


It also includes the skeptical academic perspective:

151k kilometers is easily attainable in most vehicles.

The only type of people who say EVs are worse:

Are the batteries going to last 151k kilometers? You have to reset the carbon clock when you put the new battery in that even by your studies uses 80% more carbon.

 

[R Cameron]

Are the batteries going to last 151k kilometers? You have to reset the carbon clock when you put the new battery in that even by your studies uses 80% more carbon.

You think researchers at MIT and University of Chicago didn't think of that? Nor the skeptical guy at University of Liege? A quick google search is telling me that Tesla guarantees their batteries for 150k miles (240k km) and typical lifespan is 300-500k miles.

You made a big claim, I've shown you multiple reputable sources contradicting it, where are your sources?

 

[Hawk256]

A lot of claims about battery life but no real world answers yet. Just for the record, I am a retired communications engineer, I have a lot of expereice with DC and batteries. All of the communications equipment is powered that way. Let's see if the batteries are still performing after 150k.

"Of the more than 3,000 counties in the United States, 78 had increased overall emissions from electric sedans than from internal combustion vehicles — a result attributable to the fact that, in these counties, most of the electricity was generated from coal, said Greg Keoleian, director of the Center for Sustainable Systems at the University of Michigan and lead author of the study."

E.V.s Start With a Bigger Carbon Footprint. But That Doesn’t Last.

The manufacturing and disposal of electric vehicles result in more greenhouse gases than nonelectric models, but that difference will eventually disappear altogether.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Hawk256]

From the same article. You have to read more than the headlines.

"For example, a study conducted at the Leibniz Institute for Economic Research at the University of Munich, said that a Mercedes C220 diesel creates less greenhouse gas emissions than does a Tesla Model 3. Michael Kelly, professor emeritus of engineering at Cambridge University, argued that the need to charge electric vehicles would overload the electric grid and could lead to power cuts in Britain. He also believes the world does not have enough raw materials to make the large quantities of batteries needed."

 

[Hawk256]

Here are a few more links that explain the part of electric cars that don't get discussed near enough.

Carbon Footprint of Electric Cars vs Gasoline (The Truth No One Admits)

When examining the carbon footprint of electric cars vs gasoline powered vehicles, there are a number of factors that often get ignored.

8billiontrees.com

Ten reasons electric cars still suck: We unplug the EV hype

Electric vehicles just aren't ready yet, and we've got ten reasons why, such as being potentially more expensive to run and more harmful to the environment than their gas-guzzling counterparts.

www.cnet.com

5 Ways Electric Cars Are Bad for the Environment

EVs are touted as the future, but they're not without issue.

www.makeuseof.com

 

[jstar]

If you see the situation in the Niger where they need to spend $11 billion to clean up the mess from the oil companies, and the dependency on countries as Saudi Arabia, I think it’s rather hypocrite to complain about the lithium mines in Africa.

Anyway, there’s another thread on alternative fuels.

 

[R Cameron]

Here are a few more links that explain the part of electric cars that don't get discussed near enough.

Carbon Footprint of Electric Cars vs Gasoline (The Truth No One Admits)

When examining the carbon footprint of electric cars vs gasoline powered vehicles, there are a number of factors that often get ignored.

8billiontrees.com

Ten reasons electric cars still suck: We unplug the EV hype

Electric vehicles just aren't ready yet, and we've got ten reasons why, such as being potentially more expensive to run and more harmful to the environment than their gas-guzzling counterparts.

www.cnet.com

5 Ways Electric Cars Are Bad for the Environment

EVs are touted as the future, but they're not without issue.

www.makeuseof.com

I appreciate the effort at citing sources. Your first link is paywalled (NYT), your second is German, the fourth and fifth simply point to some of the negatives of EVs without any data based comparison to the fossil fuel alternatives.

Which leaves the 3rd (8billiontrees.com) for me to engage with. It cites a number of the very real negatives, but comes to conclusions that agree with the MIT study I cited before, such as:

So, yes, it is possible for a gasoline vehicle to have a lower footprint, but only in specific circumstances.

If the two cars are used the same amount and are similarly maintained, then the carbon footprint of electric cars vs gasoline evens up, and after a specific amount of time, the EV will be the greener option, even if it is still using electricity generated from fossil fuels.

 

[Hawk256]

I appreciate the effort at citing sources. Your first link is paywalled (NYT), your second is German, the fourth and fifth simply point to some of the negatives of EVs without any data based comparison to the fossil fuel alternatives.

Which leaves the 3rd (8billiontrees.com) for me to engage with. It cites a number of the very real negatives, but comes to conclusions that agree with the MIT study I cited before, such as:

Don't know what to tell you. I looked at those links just fine. Note:the link to the German article was already linked in the original article and statement from NYT. The quoted parts from my above posts are directly from the NYT. I'm not here to sell anybody on any idea, just offering the full story. My orginal point was that in not all cases is an EV necessarily greener and you seem to agree with this statment "So, yes, it is possible for a gasoline vehicle to have a lower footprint, but only in specific circumstances." When looking at the whole picture (espically in an area that uses mostly coal power plants) it isn't black and white with a clear winner and loser except that you pay more inintially for the EV, sometimes by a large amount. If we are looking for a better answer, we need to make sure that the answer is actually better and not just moving the problem from one place to another. I'm not convinced that EVs are the long term answer. Once we know more about the real battery life and safety hazards we will have a clearer picture.

 

[jstar]

.
Toyota Astra Indonesia introduces a Yaris Cross that has nothing to do with the version you see in Europe.

It is based on the DNGA-B platform, the variant of the Daihatsu New Global Architecture platform that is also found under cars as the Daihatsu Xenia, Toyota Avanza, Veloz, etc. The compact crossover is 4.31 meters long and is therefore about 10 centimeters longer than the European Yaris Cross. The wheelbase of the Yaris Cross, intended for markets in East Asia, is 2.62 meters, exceeding that of the European Yaris Cross by 6 centimeters and that makes this new Yaris Cross a little bigger.

This car comes in two engine variants, namely a 1.5 liter gasoline and a hybrid. The expected price range is 300-400 juta.

As you can see, the styling is more like a mini RAV4 and much more traditional than its European (unrelated) sibling which is on the market for three years now:

 

[R Cameron]

I'm not convinced that EVs are the long term answer

It seems we aren't too far apart on the current state of things, but I think it quite clear that EVs are the long term answer! It's just a matter of when. Can you really picture a world in which most personal transport vehicles in the year 2123 are burning fossil fuels?? Combustion engines have been refined immensely over 100+ years leaving very minimal room for further improvements, while batteries are improving by immensely with no end in sight, and sustainable power generation growing rapidly as well.

 

[Wisnu]

If you see the situation in the Niger where they need to spend $11 billion to clean up the mess from the oil companies, and

Niger?

Niger and Nigeria is two different countries.

 

[Hawk256]

It seems we aren't too far apart on the current state of things, but I think it quite clear that EVs are the long term answer! It's just a matter of when. Can you really picture a world in which most personal transport vehicles in the year 2123 are burning fossil fuels?? Combustion engines have been refined immensely over 100+ years leaving very minimal room for further improvements, while batteries are improving by immensely with no end in sight, and sustainable power generation growing rapidly as well.

I never said that fossil fuels were the answer either. 100 years at our current rate of technogly expansion is a long time. I just don't want to trade one big problem for another big problem. Once we get cold fusion and stop using fossil fuels to generate electricity EVs will be much more realistic but we still have a battery problem that has no easy answer in sight.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

One big thing people miss in the argument about pollution of electric v gasoline is NOISE pollution. It is not only mosques that cause ugly noise pollution. Traditional cars and bikes (especially bikes) create a lot of noise (knalpot bising) and in contrast listening to the quiet electric vehicles is a pleasure. I was at ancol the other day and they have a small race circuit for kids with gas vehicles and electric vehicles. I heard one kid being asked by his parents which one he wants to drive for his 10 minutes around the circuit. He replied "yang ga ada suara".

 

[jstar]

Niger?

Niger and Nigeria is two different countries.

The Niger, the river.

 

[jstar]

Zlatan also has a new car. The Daytona SP3.

It‘s kind of weird that Lamborghini is such a popular car here. Relatively speaking you see them much more than the Ferrari’s. Of course there is a dealership here but Ferrari has one as well. Organizing the Sentul racing days with selebriti probably also helps.

.

 

[Hawk256]

One big thing people miss in the argument about pollution of electric v gasoline is NOISE pollution. It is not only mosques that cause ugly noise pollution. Traditional cars and bikes (especially bikes) create a lot of noise (knalpot bising) and in contrast listening to the quiet electric vehicles is a pleasure. I was at ancol the other day and they have a small race circuit for kids with gas vehicles and electric vehicles. I heard one kid being asked by his parents which one he wants to drive for his 10 minutes around the circuit. He replied "yang ga ada suara".

The opposite is also true. Many accidents lately in our kampung from electric scooters hitting each other and pedestrians because they couldn't hear each other. Not a fan of loud pipes at all but most facotry exaust systems aren't that loud. I hear more tire noise on a big road than I do exaust sounds.

 

[vocalneal]

If you see the situation in the Niger where they need to spend $11 billion to clean up the mess from the oil companies,

Caused by the locals drilling holes in the pipeline to steal oil and then walking away

 

[serious_fun]

Traditional cars and bikes (especially bikes) create a lot of noise ...

The first thing that came to my mind when reading that sentence was the crazy noise pollution from countless bikes in Ho Chi Minh City. Never again.

 

[Wisnu]

The Niger, the river.

View attachment 3090

Indeed, there's niger river flowing along several countries inc. niger, mali, benin and nigeria. But, I'm not aware of USD 11 billions figures required to clean oil polution in Niger river.
I do aware, Nigerian gov quote 11 - 12 USD billion to clean oil pollution in Bayelsa and Rivers state, mostly on swampy area of niger delta. There's lot of rivers in rivers state which is currently my home.
Massive oil stealing / illegals tapping and ilegal refinery from the pipeline is main cause of water and air pollution in Nigeria.

 

[serious_fun]

Well, we got the top of the line TSS model, as we’re looking to keep it for many years. Like the safety features on it. Seems to get pretty good mileage, too.

What do you think about the engine's power with the Veloz? I imagine that my driving will be lots of "stop & go" on local roads (running errands, etc.) with a few longer drives each month.