Mobil Rakyat...new cars

[jstar]

Yes @Wisnu , that is a good point. In the previous generations which were also sold in Indonesia, it was still called the Sunny*. Now the latest generation is called the Sylphy (sounds like a STD) and is sold in China, Thailand, Malaysia and the Philippines. I have no idea why not in Indonesia. Esp. since the competitors from Toyota and Honda (Vios/Corolla and City/Civic) are doing quite well.

Gamya Taxi, the one with the green cars, drives (drove?) the Nissan Latio (or Tiida or Versa), which is rather similar to your Sentra but a bit smaller. (So more similar to Vios and City.) And it's also based on the Sunny platform. You see it quite a bit for sale as 2nd hand but as far as I know you can't get it new anymore.

I guess that as in Europe, the smaller sedans are losing from the hatchbacks and esp. the mid sized SUVs. This is an irreversible trend.

* Very messy naming convention, makes that the Sunny name is used for different cars and sizes in different continents.
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[Wisnu]

@jstar
Here, we have Nissan Sunny and Sentra in the market. Look very similar but Sunny is smaller in dimension, and price 20% less than Sentra.
Both are manufactured in Thailand

When I purchase this car, I made comparison (and test drive) of Toyota Corolla, Kia Cerato, Hyundai Elantra, Peugeot 408 and Renault Fluence - all with same engine capacity
Sentra is not the best in performance but best value.
Love the Peugeot 408 but 25% more expensive and resale value is terrible here.
Actually I'm Peugeot's lover; before leaving Indonesia I drove Peugeot 405, 306 and then 406. Yup, the resale value was suck.

 

[jstar]

Peugeot (well, PSA) has purchased a majority stake in a factory in Malaysia (they were already present in Vietnam and some other places).

Now theoretically that should create the possibility to provide cars at lower prices in the ASEAN countries.

Because if I see the price of one of my favorites in this class, the 3008, in Indonesia, I almost get a heart attack. That way they can never compete against the Renault/Nissan/Mitsubishi and Toyota conglomerates.
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[waarmstrong]

This thread could be renamed SUV's for idiots, well healed idiots, that is.

 

[jstar]

Actually I'm Peugeot's lover; before leaving Indonesia I drove Peugeot 405, 306 and then 406.

There are quite a lot of newly introduced Peugeots. But in RI, you can currently only shop for the 208 GTi and 3008, at the official dealership.

Of course a big seller should be the ever popular 208. A new version of the small hatchback (in the VW Golf class) will be introduced before the end of the year.

But also quite interesting is that they did not give up on larger sedans yet. The Germans really dominate this market in Europe (Passat, A4/6, 3 and 5-series, C and E-class, ...), in the US and Asia it's practically all Japanese or Korean (Camry, Accord, Mazda6, Sonata, ...). Renault only has the Talisman, and Citroën is trying somewhat with the DS brand.

And Peugeot recently introduced the 508. Surprisingly 8 cm. shorter than its predecessor and it is more of a 4 door coupé. Not bad. Now we need to wait and see if they will introduce it in RI.

 

[Wisnu]

There are quite a lot of newly introduced Peugeots. But in RI, you can currently only shop for the 208 GTi and 3008, at the official dealership.

Of course a big seller should be the ever popular 208. A new version of the small hatchback (in the VW Golf class) will be introduced before the end of the year.

But also quite interesting is that they did not give up on larger sedans yet. The Germans really dominate this market in Europe (Passat, A4/6, 3 and 5-series, C and E-class, ...), in the US and Asia it's practically all Japanese or Korean (Camry, Accord, Mazda6, Sonata, ...). Renault only has the Talisman, and Citroën is trying somewhat with the DS brand.

And Peugeot recently introduced the 508. Surprisingly 8 cm. shorter than its predecessor and it is more of a 4 door coupé. Not bad. Now we need to wait and see if they will introduce it in RI.

I meant 508 not 408 (no 408 in Egypt)
There's two varian, 508 sedan 4 doors and 5008 more like SUv 7-seaters, 5 door: both marketed with 1.6l engine, 150 HP, the most powerful for 1.6l.
I compared all those cars mentioned before and really like the 508. The driver seat is also the most comfortable.
Although more expensive 25%, I would have take it if the resale price is not suck.
Anyway, I'm not dissapointed with Sentra.

we rent the 208 when visited Greece few month ago. Nice handling and control panel/navigation screen.

 

[jstar]

Well, it's a good thing you didn't take that 508 (2014-2018) since the new 508 that I mentioned above will arrive any moment. And then the resale value of your car would have collapsed completely.

PSA (so Peugeot and Citroën) is doing very well at the moment. Only DS, the luxury brand, is not really successful.

 

[snpark]

so many cars are slowly morphing into clones of themselves

take the badges off and you cant tell the difference between a rover 80, a rolls royce, a tesla, a jag, a ford, etc etc

I know its all the aerodynamics and coupe shapes etc but years ago you could tell any car from its distinctive shape, renault 5, ford escort, vw golf, jag, merc, bmw, etc etc

nowadays, they really starting to all look the same, in the case of the toyota rush and daihatsu xerios it even IS the same
anyway they are all over priced here, so I save my money since cars get wrecked on the roads and the hidden costs and hassles of parking, traffic, insurance etc are not condusive to me

I guess I was spoilt in Dubai with 100km straight empty 6 lane new highways, $1 gas, tax free cars, cheap insurance, etc etc

 

[jstar]

The problem is that over here, it is very difficult to enjoy driving. There are tracks of course, but on the public roads?

I also think that with electric cars we enter a new and rather exciting era. It will have a huge impact on design. And yes, the cars do get rather similar, but I think that applies more to the cars of one brand, in the same segment. (All Audi sedans and SUV's look alike, so do BMW's, Volvo's etc.)

But there are still exceptions....

This is a picture we took of the G-Class from Sheikh Mohammed while visiting the boat show.

And the new model....

Some people hate this boxy design but you can't really say all cars become standardized and uniform. Some really try to keep an own identity. Of course the problem is that car owners in Asia have a different taste from those in Europe for instance. And car manufacturers want to develop 'world cars'. And you know where the money is...

Cars in Dubai are somewhat circus like. But Xmas trees, eh .... motorcycles you see at The Walk are even worse of course.

 

[snpark]

yeh he has had amg g class for years, always white, always #1 on the reg, its almost the official car, obviously they have dozens of them even the junior sheikhs have g class, but you can often see him driving around alone sometimes

for all the money in dubai and crazy cars etc, having a white amg g class with a cool # is still pretty classy

 

[Jamu]

talking about Nissan, here in Egypt we have been using Nissan Sentra for almost 4 years, more than 100K km without any single problem. Nice car, spacious for a small car; 1.6L engine, not much power but not a big deal for city car daily used to office.

I do not see Nissan Sentra in Indonesia; don't know why . Pricewise, relatively not expensive - cheaper compared with other same class like corolla, kia cerato, Hyundai Elantra,

I too like Nissan but it's a funny company in Indonesia. For example, the X-Trail was face lifted globally last year including in every market in Asia except for Indonesia. When I contacted Nissan Indonesia, they didn't know anything about it and had no clue if/when to expect it. Strange.

 

[jstar]

...the X-Trail was face lifted globally last year including in every market in Asia except for Indonesia. When I contacted Nissan Indonesia, they didn't know anything about it and had no clue if/when to expect it. Strange.

Yes, I remember declaring a year ago in this thread, to wait with the purchase of the X-Trail, since the new model would be introduced before the end of 2017. So yours truly was wrong.

And the changes are not insignificant. The new X-Trail can be recognized by the more pronounced V-Motion grille, that grille is wider now and goes deeper than before. The headlights are equipped with the Nissan-characteristic daytime running lights in 'boomerang shape'. At the rear, the changes are limited to a new rear bumper and full-LED rear lights. Furthermore, Nissan introduced four new colors (Orange Pearl, Red Pearl, Blue Pearl Metallic and Dark Brown Pearl) and new 17- and 18-inch alloy wheels on the X-Trail.

But Nissan has brought more novelties to the X-Trail. The rear door can be opened by moving your foot under the rear bumper. There is a new steering wheel and the seats are now completely made from leather. The luggage space also grew somewhat.

I put the new version (for Europe and the Rogue in the US) on the left, the current Indonesian version is on the right.

 

[Jamu]

Yes, amazingly Nissan Indonesia is still selling the X-Trail variant that was launched by Nissan in 2013

 

[jstar]

Yes, amazingly Nissan Indonesia is still selling the X-Trail variant that was launched by Nissan in 2013

If you can live with only 2 rows, this might be an interesting alternative:

I saw one in Kuningan a couple of days ago. It is rather impressive. Although technically similar, and the Nissan being 12 cm. longer, it looks more massive and bigger than the X-Trail. As you can see here:

Of course they share technology so this Renault also uses Nissan's (6-speed New) X-Tronic CVT.

And it has even more features than the facelifted version. You can compare it with a full option new X-Trail. (Or even the X-Tremer version in RI.) It also has LED lights etc. It will set you back 460 Juta OTR in Jakarta.

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[azrielariel]

A question on buying. In Indonesia there are social nuances that are to be followed and veering too far off course can earn some strange looks. When buying is it OK to negotiate the price or is it like Walmart where it is what the tag says. If it is ok, what's an acceptable range of negotiation?

We're looking at two vehicles in particular, the Toyota Fortuner or Mistubishi Pajero. Both are similar size but I'm leaning more toward the Fortuner only because there are more Toyotas on the road than anything else. We're getting a larger SUV because we'll be hauling a lot of people from time to time. Appearance doesn't matter to me as much as it might to some. In my simple minded opinion they all look alike so that aspect is near meaningless. Size, longevity, gas mileage, and ease of operation are all that matters.

Her brother owns a 17 YO Kijang that's never had a major mechanical problem. Fixing a car can be expensive especially one that's not common, like Mercedes. We have two here state side and neither of them have me impressed. She wants a Benz but I don't think the status is worth the repair bills. The last one we bought cost an extra 10K to fix a couple bad struts and lift gate within the first year of ownership. It was used when we got it so who knows how much abuse it's seen in its past life.

 

[jstar]

The funny thing is, @azrielariel , is that 'we' have both cars here in our extended family. And as you say, they are very comparable. My personal favorite is the Pajero Sport, but the whole family is very Toyota minded. And the new Fortuner is really an improvement over the previous model.

About discounts; yes it is completely normal to negotiate and get the best bang for the buck. For the higher class cars, count between 5 and 10%. (The latter at the end of the year.) I have seen Xenia's etc. being sold with much more discount. The 'Europeans' give much less than the 'Japanese'. If a car is newly introduced, forget it.

Some tips: Visit them before month-end so when the salesperson is under pressure to meet his/her targets. Don't underestimate accessories and options; you can get more in those than the sole money amount. I'm thinking options like rims etc. But obviously only do that if you need it.

About the cars; to be honest, the Fortuner and Pajero Sport are sold to a mainly 'male' audience for their butch appearance and the gengsi factor is very important. And of course they're SUVs, not real off-roaders. Having said that, they are good cars, drive well although it's a bit an American driving experience. (To me it gives a bit of a Ford Explorer/Expedition déjà vu, so with quite a soft suspension.)

If you talk (interior) space, perhaps you should consider a MPV instead of a SUV. The (access and space on the) third row of both cars is not ideal, the second row is okay for 3 adults. A new Innova, which is approx. 60-100 million cheaper, offers even a bit more interior space. And that is also a car which does have a rather good name (the new generation Kijang of your b-I-l) and which has an upscale image, esp. the Venturer version. Cheaper alternatives are the Voxy and Sienta. They are somewhat of soccer mom cars, but in Indonesia that image does not exist. And the sliding doors can be a real blessing here. If you can live with a car for 5 people and want a SUV with good driving characteristics, I would consider the Honda CR-V and the Mazda CX-5. Esp. the latter is a great (driver's) car. But Toyota does have a better resale value.

If you need a car for 6 people or more, MB or BMW don't even offer that and you're somewhat stuck with a sedan unless you go really berserk and get a GLS class. (The GLE is already 1.2 billion rupiah.) But let's face it, on resale and image, they are difficult to beat. And if you have money to spend and want real luxury, then consider the Vellfire or Alphard (my m-i-l and wife have those). I personally hate to drive them, but with a driver (obviously) you can't beat that, not even with an E- or S-class. Nissan (El Grand) or Mazda (CX-9) in that class, will lose their value fast.

 

[azrielariel]

Thanks, I appreciate the tips.

 

[snpark]

you get more discount if you buy on credit not cash because there is more meat on the bone obviously

try for extra accessories or free servicing

buying cars on credit can be better actually, pay a dp, put the rest on credit, build up a good credit rating here, get better discount, and usually car finance only about 3% so you can keep your cash at the bank and earn more than the car finance is costing

welcome to indonesia
also if you know cars and not fussy, wait for the new version to come out, then go and buy one of the old version, ex demo or something, since they need to get rid of old stock, even unpopular colours

 

[Zavia]

you get more discount if you buy on credit not cash because there is more meat on the bone obviously
try for extra accessories or free servicing

If you are buying in jakarta, I know a dude selling toyota/astra vehicals. Any discount/freebies he can give to get you to buy, will happen. Very sharp guy. I play boardgames with him.

If you r interested I can pass you his contact.

 

[snpark]

If you are buying in jakarta, I know a dude selling toyota/astra vehicals. Any discount/freebies he can give to get you to buy, will happen. Very sharp guy. I play boardgames with him.

If you r interested I can pass you his contact.

me?? no. I think you misunderstand my post. I'm not looking for a car, sorry