Married abroad, mixed religion, with one party being Muslim must now be registered at KUA, and the other party must convert.

[fastpitch17]

Christians cannot intermarry Muslims via religious ceremony and vice versa (in Indonesia, in other countries Musmils can marry Christian and Jew wives under some conditions).

Indonesia has a long time been a racist society

Racist society? Jew wives? I believe the word you were looking for was "Jewish" wives.

 

[centurion]

Racist society? Jew wives? I believe the word you were looking for was "Jewish" wives.

Correct, Jewish wives, racist society

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/

 

[Nimbus]

Ok, here’s the deal. The current Director General of Population and Civil Registry applies his own interpretation to the Supreme Court ruling, which is wrong.

Nikah Beda Agama Tidak Boleh Dicatat di Dukcapil, Simak Penjelasan Dirjen

Nikah beda agama tidak akan tercatat di dinas-dinas kependudukan dan pencatatan sipil atau dukcapil.

www.beritasatu.com

If you’re lucky, you can find a catatan sipil office in Jakarta that doesn’t care. Unfortunately the only way to challenge it elsewhere is by going to court. As recent as 2015 a Catholic and Buddhist couple successfully sued to have their marriage registered, by court order.

Direktori Putusan

putusan3.mahkamahagung.go.id

 

[centurion]

Ok, here’s the deal. The current Director General of Population and Civil Registry applies his own interpretation to the Supreme Court ruling, which is wrong.

Nikah Beda Agama Tidak Boleh Dicatat di Dukcapil, Simak Penjelasan Dirjen

Nikah beda agama tidak akan tercatat di dinas-dinas kependudukan dan pencatatan sipil atau dukcapil.

www.beritasatu.com

If you’re lucky, you can find a catatan sipil office in Jakarta that doesn’t care. Unfortunately the only way to challenge it elsewhere is by going to court. As recent as 2015 a Catholic and Buddhist couple successfully sued to have their marriage registered, by court order.

Direktori Putusan

putusan3.mahkamahagung.go.id

Jakarta Civil Registry Office still allows the recording of foreign marriages irrelevant to religion, out of Jakarta is harder.

 

[dafluff]

Surabaya court rules marriage between two people with different religion is legal, arguing that difference in religion does not prevent marriage according to the law. It also says people have a right to their beliefs, and to get married.

The couple (muslim husband, christian wife) petitioned the court to recognize their marriage, after both KUA and CatSip refused to register their marriage.

PN Surabaya Izinkan Warga Nikah Beda Agama: Demi Hindari Kumpul Kebo

Hakim tercatat memiliki 10 pertimbangan mengizinkan pasangan warga Surabaya yang menikah beda agama.

www.cnnindonesia.com

 

[Nimbus]

Surabaya court rules marriage between two people with different religion is legal, arguing that difference in religion does not prevent marriage according to the law. It also says people have a right to their beliefs, and to get married.

The couple (muslim husband, christian wife) petitioned the court to recognize their marriage, after both KUA and CatSip refused to register their marriage.

PN Surabaya Izinkan Warga Nikah Beda Agama: Demi Hindari Kumpul Kebo

Hakim tercatat memiliki 10 pertimbangan mengizinkan pasangan warga Surabaya yang menikah beda agama.

www.cnnindonesia.com

The legal precedent is very clear, all the way to the supreme court. It appears that certain catatan sipil officers against interfaith marriage are fighting it by requiring court order for every single couple.

“We don’t want to do it. If you don’t like it, make us do it by court order.”

 

[centurion]

The legal precedent is very clear, all the way to the supreme court. It appears that certain catatan sipil officers against interfaith marriage are fighting it by requiring court order for every single couple.

“We don’t want to do it. If you don’t like it, make us do it by court order.”

Jakarta stated refusing registering foreign mixed Islam-other marriages from this Monday and reffering them to KUA for registration in shariah-friendly form.

This is what applicants get:
"Pemberitahuan perkawinan luar negeri an. XXXX dan XXXX. untuk agama Islam silahkan lapor perkawinan luar ngeri di KUA sesuai domisili KTP, terima kasih"

 

[Helpful Herbert]

At least there is a legal avenue to get it recognised. Filing for a court order that forces CatSip to recognise the marriage is an administrative pain, but probably not too expensive.
Maybe a new thread for people in this position in the future would be useful, explaining how to do it and what the costs are.

 

[pantaiema]

At least there is a legal avenue to get it recognised. Filing for a court order that forces CatSip to recognise the marriage is an administrative pain, but probably not too expensive.
Maybe a new thread for people in this position in the future would be useful, explaining how to do it and what the costs are.

This Supreme Court Circular letter SEMA NOMOR 2 TAHUN 2023.pdf issued on 17 July 2023, has removed ambiguity about whether the interfaith marriage is allowed or not allowed.

Loading…

jdih.mahkamahagung.go.id

"1. Perkawinan yang sah adalah perkawinan yang dilakukan menurut
hukum masing-masing agama dan kepercayaannya itu, sesuai dengan
Pasal 2 ayat (1) dan Pasal 8 huruf f Undang-Undang Nomor 1 Tahun
1974 tentang Perkawinan.
2. Pengadilan tidak mengabulkan permohonan pencatatan perkawinan antar-umat yang berbeda agama dan kepercayaan."
1. A valid marriage is a marriage performed according to the laws of each religion and belief, in accordance with Article 2 paragraph (1) and Article 8 letter f of Law Number 1 of the Year 1974 concerning Marriage.
2. The court did not grant the request to register marriages between people of different religions and beliefs.

This SEMA NOMOR 2 TAHUN 2023.pdf is contradictory to the previous decision made in the courts including the supreme court.

Loading…

putusan.danlevlibrary.net

Putusan MA No. 1400 K/Pdt/1986 Tahun 1986 | Daniel S. Lev Library

putusan.danlevlibrary.net

"Mengabulkan permohonan kasasi ... Memerintahkan Pegawai Pencatat pada Kantor Catatan Sipil Propinsi Daerah Khusus Ibukota Jakarta agar supaya melangsungkan perkawinan antara Andi Vonny Gani P. dengan Andrianus Petrus Hendrik Nelwan setelah dipenuhi syarat-syarat perkawinan menurut Undang-undang; "
Granting the Cassation request... Ordering the Registrar's Officer at the Provincial Civil Registry Office for the Special Capital Region of Jakarta to carry out the marriage between Andi Vonny Gani P. and Andrianus Petrus Hendrik Nelwan after fulfilling the marriage requirements according to the Law.

Judgment No. 1400 K/Pdt/1986 of 20 January 1989 - PubMed

Judgment No. 1400 K/Pdt/1986 of 20 January 1989

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"The Indonesian Court held that a marriage between a Muslim woman and a non-Muslim man may be concluded at the Civil Registry so long as the woman is considered to have abandoned her religion. The court also ruled that, because the religious basis of marriage is so fundamental, all colonial regulations based on the civil marriage system are null and void, even if there is no current Indonesian legislation to replace them."

Also there are other cases went to court in the past and the court has ruled that the marriage is valid.

People focus more on many unnecessary things, religious extremists have significant influence over people's lives, leading to widespread belief in the necessity of separating state affairs from religious influence. Religion and Marriage are personal things. It wouldn't pose an issue if they adhere to their own beliefs, provided they don't impose them on others to adhere to as well.

 

[serious_fun]

Indonesian Muslim Cleric Reaffirms Ban on Interfaith Marriage

A prominent leader of the Indonesian Ulema Council, Muhammad Cholil Nafis, (head of the MUI’s Islamic Teachings and Brotherhood Division), has reiterated the prohibition against Muslims marrying people of different faiths.

 

[fastpitch17]

Indonesian Muslim Cleric Reaffirms Ban on Interfaith Marriage

A prominent leader of the Indonesian Ulema Council, Muhammad Cholil Nafis, (head of the MUI’s Islamic Teachings and Brotherhood Division), has reiterated the prohibition against Muslims marrying people of different faiths.

He is speaking of the Islamic ban on interfaith marriages. Of course mentioning that Muslim men can do that according to some. He issued a fatwa forbidding it. Fatwas have no weight in law. All because a Muslim celebrity is getting Wed to a Balanese Hindu in Bali. Another Islamic insecurity within their religion.

 

[fastpitch17]

He is speaking of the Islamic ban on interfaith marriages. Of course mentioning that Muslim men can do that according to some. He issued a fatwa forbidding it. Fatwas have no weight in law. All because a Muslim celebrity is getting Wed to a Balanese Hindu in Bali. Another Islamic insecurity within their religion.

Seems all are happy now. The poor Hindu Bali girl has decided to convert with her parents permission. I bet the happiness would have been replaced with hate if they would have decided to follow the law like they wanted by him converting to Hinduism. It was never a goal to follow a law, only to force her to convert to Islam. Hopefully she will be a KTP Muslim like so many foreigners have become.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Hopefully next week she converts back to Hindu.
[what a ridiculous system]

 

[Shadrach]

This is not ridiculous, It's Sad! How can people be so control by religion? What if it was a Muslim Woman wanting to Wed Hindu? Would that be OK? Or, is it only Men, that have the power to do these kinds of things?
Why have people lost all control, of being in control, of making their own decisions, without Domination by Patriarchy, and Religion? This is such a waste of precious time, when we could all just be Human! And Help, Love, and Care, for all people!
I don't think God, wants people to be afraid, and to be Slaves to their Religions! This is only a Man made concept, of the people in the Hierarchy of all these Religions! To stay on top, and have control, of the Masses!
Get up, Stand up, Stand up for your Rights! Don't give the Fight!

 

[Bob]

Seems all are happy now. The poor Hindu Bali girl has decided to convert with her parents permission. I bet the happiness would have been replaced with hate if they would have decided to follow the law like they wanted by him converting to Hinduism. It was never a goal to follow a law, only to force her to convert to Islam. Hopefully she will be a KTP Muslim like so many foreigners have become.

How about 'hopefully she will follow the path she deems best for herself'?

 

[MamangDudul]

This is not ridiculous, It's Sad! How can people be so control by religion? What if it was a Muslim Woman wanting to Wed Hindu? Would that be OK? Or, is it only Men, that have the power to do these kinds of things?
Why have people lost all control, of being in control, of making their own decisions, without Domination by Patriarchy, and Religion? This is such a waste of precious time, when we could all just be Human! And Help, Love, and Care, for all people!
I don't think God, wants people to be afraid, and to be Slaves to their Religions! This is only a Man made concept, of the people in the Hierarchy of all these Religions! To stay on top, and have control, of the Masses!
Get up, Stand up, Stand up for your Rights! Don't give the Fight!

Again nice thougths but you are totally in the wrong country for that kind of mindset, no offense. Even the oh so open minded Balinese people are "caught" (depending on your point of view) in traditions and religion. This is something we won't see changing that fast, if ever, in Indonesia. A few bule who drive motorcycle in a bikini won't change that

 

[Pak Tani]

Seems all are happy now.

Except for two or three salty old white guys on an internet forum for foreigners.

 

[fastpitch17]

Except for two or three salty old white guys on an internet forum for foreigners.

Not too sure about that. The national publicity probably had much to do with forced decisions made. Especially concerning the wife to be and her family.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

If she is forced to change her religion on the KTP, is she allowed to change it back on her KTP to her actual religion a week later, or would that invalidate the marriage?
As far as I know no-one is carrying out post-marriage checks to see if the husband/wife are still the same religion months or years later?

 

[fastpitch17]

The answer that no one ever gives is how this affects those married years ago outside Indonesia and are registered with CatSip and have their Indonesian Government certificate saying they are married. Grandfathered? Have to change?