INFORMATION AND COMMUNITY FOR EXPATS IN INDONESIA
KTP Orang Asing compulsory?
- Thread starter wombat
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Oh, I'm not finished yet. I expect this type of treatment from CatSip here. There offices are upstairs but you never get to go there. They come down stairs and meet you at the entrance. You do get to watch people that do get invited upstairs. This weekend I will contact my connection with the AGO who has already been notified of the extortion practices and who wanted a call as soon as someone asked for it but he also helps with other government clarifications so perhaps he will call the CatSip and find out what is going on and what is needed and why.who knows, it is not beyound me to make an appointment with the Director here. These are the people that give all government offices a bad name and I am tired of dealing with them. I know they can get pissy and slow the process down to a snails pace but I'm not too worried about that. I have my KITAP and my SKTT is good another 3 weeks. Already have a 5 year SiM so there isn't too much to affect. We shall see.
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Sorry if I kept you up with nightmare thoughts. Not to worry, I am used to this places antics and extortion attempts and if they continue, I will be giving them nightmares.
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So, anyone have a clue to as what a SKPOA is?
My previous agent had let down some of my friends hence the change in approach. Thought I would do the renewal myself but instead passed it over to an instant "friend" when I was greeted inside. I reckon in this case it was to ensure I came back sooner than later. Lesson Learned: Line up agent ahead of time and provide the work scope of 5 year SIM.
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I think she refers perhaps to the SKPDOA (Surat Keterengan Pindah Datang Orang Asing which is issued by the CapSil and is part of the procedure of the KTP OA/WNA. It's the acknowledgement that you have moved to your new wilayah of residence.
SK obviously stand for Surat Keterengan and OA for Orang Asing. If it is not the SKPDOA but really only SKPOA, perhaps that the P stands for Penduduk which would equate to asking you your SKTT.
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She has my latest SKTT(paper) and somewhere in the file my SKTT card originally from Jakarta when I received my KITAS1. She already had me go to Jakarta and get a Surat Keterangan Pindah to show my move from Jakarta to Lampung. I offered up copies of my SKSKPS 2 years ago after moving here but they said they didn't need them. Now I guess I wonder if they even processed anything else besides the SKTT after my arrival. They must think that running back and forth to Jakarta to get things they keep forgetting to mention is like crossing the street to buy some milk. I have a Surat Keterengan for my current address. That should be sufficient. Jakarta DINAS says they have everything they need so a trip there again could be a total waste of time.
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SKPOA..... Wife called Jakarta again. What's an SKPOA she ask to the nice lady on the other end of the phone at DINAS DKI Jakarta. What, was her reply. SKPOA, they say i need one my wife told her. No, you already have a Surat Keterangan Pindah for a WNA. You have everything you need. Bandar Lampung DINAS says we do so they can enter it electronically, my wife informed her. It is in the system, she answers my wife. If they can't bring it up electronically they need to enter it manually then. My wife ask, can you call her and tell her that. The reply was that she was not allowed to cross boarders and jurisdictions but if my wife should be in the BL CatSip and call her in Jakarta, she would be happy to help out then but my wife would need to initiate the call. Wife thanked her. Off to DINAS CatSip, BL we went.
Walk in and tell the girl sitting at the desk why we were there. Girl clerk came down stairs again and met us. My wife informed her that Jakarta says that everything is in order and there is no reason she can't process it. She disagrees. Said we got paperwork from DINAS DKI Jakarta but should have gotten from CatSip Jakarta Selatan. Could not we informed her, CatSip JakSel sent us to DINAS DKI Jakarta because they no longer did that. No, it has to come from JakSel CatSip, not DINAS DKI Jakarta, she said. But, my wife interrupted, DINAS DKI Jakarta is over CatSip JakSel. Dopesn't matter we were told, has to come from there. My wife asked her why she just doen't do like Jakarta suggested and enter it manually? Because we only enter it when everything comes on the screen for us, she said. So, I said, it looks like you want everyone else to do your job for you. No response.
Along comes the guy that sent us in writing to Jakarta the last time with instructions to get a Surat Pindah of which we did. The extortionist. Mr, I need to be paid and you don't need a receipt. Tells us that is not what we needed. We told him he wrote it that way. No he said, i didn't. Pulled out his note to us instructing us to obtain a Surat Pindah from Jakarta. Oh, that. Yes but you got the wrong Surat Pindah. It is not the OA one, he explains. You didn't write that, we said. Doesn't matter, it's wrong, you need to get the right one before we can process. This is your mistake my wife tells him and you should fix it. Sorry he says, we can not. Must come from Jakarta. He's all acting tough like he wants to pound on his chest of something.
Oh boy, now the older lady enters. The lady that started all the being wrong two years ago. As soon as she sits my wife has a finger in her face. You, she says. You made this mess two years ago. You are to blame for all these problems. Lady didn't bat an eye lid. She started explaining that we need a NIK number. OK, my turn. I tore apart my papers in front of her and poiunted out five different places that shown my NIK number issued in Jakarta over 3 years ago and used on some documents here. I pointed out that she was the one who took my SKTT Card with the NIK on it and issued a paper SKTT saying you didn't issue cards here in BL. I stuck my finger in her face this time and explained how she was asked about my NIK number not on any of her paperwork when we moved here and it was she that said that I have a different number now to use. I argued then and lost but I am sure going to point out how wrong she was. She told us that we can't get a card for having a KITAS, only a KITAP. I asked then why I was issued the card in Jakarta, the one she said she had to keep two years ago if Indonesia didn't issue SKTT cards for KITAS. No answer. She started telling us that she didn't understand how I could have a KITAP to begin with. They are only for Koreans and Chinese and I shouldn't have one. She was corrected by the male standing there all puffy chest yet. What were we going to do? I'll tell you what. Like any red blooded American, we called the cops. Well, in a way.
I called my nephew. I told him where we were and had previously discussed what was going on with him. I informed my wife of the call and she asked the old lady if she would mind explaining to our nephew what I needed so he could better explain to me in English. At first, she refuses but the young clerk pushed her to do it. She was talking and talking. She was making crazy facial expressions, my wife looked at me and shrugged her shoulders. The lady abruptly slides my phone back to me, my nephew was still there. I asked what she said. He asked if she just put down the phone while he was still talking. Looks that way i told him. She wouldn't give me a definite answer he said. She kept talking but would not give me exactly what you needed and what the reasoning is or the regulations behind anything to look up. I thanked him for trying. He asked me to get their Names, Ranks, Job Titles, and ID Numbers. He informed me that I should tell them that he was going to (something in Indonesian). I told him I can't come close to pronouncing it so probably not. He told me it is an inquirery into them personally and their office for not how they treat expats but the WNI sponsors of them.
The guy ask when I walked back in the entry way where they were standing and sitting, who was that? The old lady ask, yes, who was I speaking to? Oh, my wife said. Our nephew. What does he do the old lady demanded to know. Well my wife says, he has a government position that is a bit higher then yours. He is an Attorney General in Jakarta. I added, he would like your names, ranks, job titles, and ID numbers as I took out paper and pen. My wife relayed the message. In Bahasa Indonesia. First the guy wrote down his name and title. Would not give his rank and instead of ID number gave his phone number. He suddenly became all friendly and smiling. now he wants to be helpful. he had 4 silverish stars on each shoulder. next the young lady, who just started working there this year started filling out her info. I said no need. I figured she was just following what the others tell her since she was fairly new. She passed the paper to the older lady. She pushed it away. My wife pushed it back,. she again pushed it away. The younger girl wrote down the ladies name but that was all. The older lady also had the 4 silverish stars on each shoulder. The older lady was as quiet as you could be. She did seem worried and on the verge of some kind of collapse now. We said thank you and left them all in their spots.
nephew WhatsApped me asking for full name of the office. I gave him that and all information I had received. He told me that those people were the most unprofessional inept people he had ever run into in any government facility. I had to agree. We don't plan on going back there until after we visit Jakarta in a month or so because of a birth in the family. We will drop by CatSip in JakSel and see if we can get anything from them. Either a SKPOA or a statement that they don't do it. In the mean time, we'll see what the nephew comes up with. Glad this stuff when finally done is good for 5 years.
Walk in and tell the girl sitting at the desk why we were there. Girl clerk came down stairs again and met us. My wife informed her that Jakarta says that everything is in order and there is no reason she can't process it. She disagrees. Said we got paperwork from DINAS DKI Jakarta but should have gotten from CatSip Jakarta Selatan. Could not we informed her, CatSip JakSel sent us to DINAS DKI Jakarta because they no longer did that. No, it has to come from JakSel CatSip, not DINAS DKI Jakarta, she said. But, my wife interrupted, DINAS DKI Jakarta is over CatSip JakSel. Dopesn't matter we were told, has to come from there. My wife asked her why she just doen't do like Jakarta suggested and enter it manually? Because we only enter it when everything comes on the screen for us, she said. So, I said, it looks like you want everyone else to do your job for you. No response.
Along comes the guy that sent us in writing to Jakarta the last time with instructions to get a Surat Pindah of which we did. The extortionist. Mr, I need to be paid and you don't need a receipt. Tells us that is not what we needed. We told him he wrote it that way. No he said, i didn't. Pulled out his note to us instructing us to obtain a Surat Pindah from Jakarta. Oh, that. Yes but you got the wrong Surat Pindah. It is not the OA one, he explains. You didn't write that, we said. Doesn't matter, it's wrong, you need to get the right one before we can process. This is your mistake my wife tells him and you should fix it. Sorry he says, we can not. Must come from Jakarta. He's all acting tough like he wants to pound on his chest of something.
Oh boy, now the older lady enters. The lady that started all the being wrong two years ago. As soon as she sits my wife has a finger in her face. You, she says. You made this mess two years ago. You are to blame for all these problems. Lady didn't bat an eye lid. She started explaining that we need a NIK number. OK, my turn. I tore apart my papers in front of her and poiunted out five different places that shown my NIK number issued in Jakarta over 3 years ago and used on some documents here. I pointed out that she was the one who took my SKTT Card with the NIK on it and issued a paper SKTT saying you didn't issue cards here in BL. I stuck my finger in her face this time and explained how she was asked about my NIK number not on any of her paperwork when we moved here and it was she that said that I have a different number now to use. I argued then and lost but I am sure going to point out how wrong she was. She told us that we can't get a card for having a KITAS, only a KITAP. I asked then why I was issued the card in Jakarta, the one she said she had to keep two years ago if Indonesia didn't issue SKTT cards for KITAS. No answer. She started telling us that she didn't understand how I could have a KITAP to begin with. They are only for Koreans and Chinese and I shouldn't have one. She was corrected by the male standing there all puffy chest yet. What were we going to do? I'll tell you what. Like any red blooded American, we called the cops. Well, in a way.
I called my nephew. I told him where we were and had previously discussed what was going on with him. I informed my wife of the call and she asked the old lady if she would mind explaining to our nephew what I needed so he could better explain to me in English. At first, she refuses but the young clerk pushed her to do it. She was talking and talking. She was making crazy facial expressions, my wife looked at me and shrugged her shoulders. The lady abruptly slides my phone back to me, my nephew was still there. I asked what she said. He asked if she just put down the phone while he was still talking. Looks that way i told him. She wouldn't give me a definite answer he said. She kept talking but would not give me exactly what you needed and what the reasoning is or the regulations behind anything to look up. I thanked him for trying. He asked me to get their Names, Ranks, Job Titles, and ID Numbers. He informed me that I should tell them that he was going to (something in Indonesian). I told him I can't come close to pronouncing it so probably not. He told me it is an inquirery into them personally and their office for not how they treat expats but the WNI sponsors of them.
The guy ask when I walked back in the entry way where they were standing and sitting, who was that? The old lady ask, yes, who was I speaking to? Oh, my wife said. Our nephew. What does he do the old lady demanded to know. Well my wife says, he has a government position that is a bit higher then yours. He is an Attorney General in Jakarta. I added, he would like your names, ranks, job titles, and ID numbers as I took out paper and pen. My wife relayed the message. In Bahasa Indonesia. First the guy wrote down his name and title. Would not give his rank and instead of ID number gave his phone number. He suddenly became all friendly and smiling. now he wants to be helpful. he had 4 silverish stars on each shoulder. next the young lady, who just started working there this year started filling out her info. I said no need. I figured she was just following what the others tell her since she was fairly new. She passed the paper to the older lady. She pushed it away. My wife pushed it back,. she again pushed it away. The younger girl wrote down the ladies name but that was all. The older lady also had the 4 silverish stars on each shoulder. The older lady was as quiet as you could be. She did seem worried and on the verge of some kind of collapse now. We said thank you and left them all in their spots.
nephew WhatsApped me asking for full name of the office. I gave him that and all information I had received. He told me that those people were the most unprofessional inept people he had ever run into in any government facility. I had to agree. We don't plan on going back there until after we visit Jakarta in a month or so because of a birth in the family. We will drop by CatSip in JakSel and see if we can get anything from them. Either a SKPOA or a statement that they don't do it. In the mean time, we'll see what the nephew comes up with. Glad this stuff when finally done is good for 5 years.
all4ywh
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Hello Expat Indo community!
My first post as a migrant from the LIIF site...
In recent months has anyone who processed a KTP OA received an e-KTP?
With the current e-KTP program being promoted by the government, from various news outlets I am only reading that only all citizens of Indonesia must apply for/convert to an e-KTP by september 30th; I have not read anything which mentioned that holders of a KTP OA must convert to an e-KTP as well.
I am a KITAP holder and 2+ years ago when my family moved to a new province, I had to transfer my KTP OA and at that time I was told at the Catatan Sipil office that an e-KTP was only available for citizens of Indonesia.
My first post as a migrant from the LIIF site...
In recent months has anyone who processed a KTP OA received an e-KTP?
With the current e-KTP program being promoted by the government, from various news outlets I am only reading that only all citizens of Indonesia must apply for/convert to an e-KTP by september 30th; I have not read anything which mentioned that holders of a KTP OA must convert to an e-KTP as well.
I am a KITAP holder and 2+ years ago when my family moved to a new province, I had to transfer my KTP OA and at that time I was told at the Catatan Sipil office that an e-KTP was only available for citizens of Indonesia.
and was told "no, its free"
jstar
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Well, they never excluded us.
On the contrary, look at article 63 for instance:
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There is a major problem in Indonesia with issuing e-KTP to its citizens....I doubt that any focus on e-KTP OA will be dealt with until the backlog of citizens is complete.
Probably best if foreigners do not apply for KTP until this problem is solved.
From Jakpost....
"The government has found that about 22 million people nationwide risk losing access to the Heath Care and Social Security Agency’s (BPJS) medicare program, bank and other identity based services and even their voting rights in the simultaneous regional elections in February 2017, if they fail to complete documents for electronic identity cards by Sept. 30.
With only one month left, however, reports of registration form shortages, malfunctioning equipment and obstructive bureaucracy are rampant and, hence, have slowed the population administration program that will pave the way for the implementation of the long-delayed single identity number system."
Probably best if foreigners do not apply for KTP until this problem is solved.
From Jakpost....
"The government has found that about 22 million people nationwide risk losing access to the Heath Care and Social Security Agency’s (BPJS) medicare program, bank and other identity based services and even their voting rights in the simultaneous regional elections in February 2017, if they fail to complete documents for electronic identity cards by Sept. 30.
With only one month left, however, reports of registration form shortages, malfunctioning equipment and obstructive bureaucracy are rampant and, hence, have slowed the population administration program that will pave the way for the implementation of the long-delayed single identity number system."
jstar
Mr. 10,000
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I guess you meant don't pursue the e-KTP? I would definitely apply for a KTP when on KITAP, even is it is just a paper version...it really offers advantages, even if unuseable by identity based services. (Just got a new cell phone subscription for instance; having a KTP made it much easier; the alternative would have been putting it on my wife's name.)
all4ywh
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Well, they never excluded us.
On the contrary, look at article 63 for instance:
Well, well, well...thanks jstar for posting that passage : a requirement which I cannot find has been noted by any domestic media outlets, including the English language media outlets, in published news with statements by national government officials about the e-KTP requirement for all citizens. Anyone who has interest, the full document can be downloaded from here : http://peraturan.go.id/uu/nomor-24-tahun-2013.html
all4ywh
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For those who are curious about the e-KTP for KITAP holders : last week I visited the Catatan Sipil office in my city of Tangerang Selatan, Banten to inquire about what I needed to do to convert my paper KTP OA into an e-KTP : which I should had received 2 years ago when my family relocated to Tangerang Selatan and both my wife & I were issued new KTP's by Tangerang Selatan. At the Catatan Sipil I was told by a department supervisor that because I am not an Indonesian citizen, all my personal data submitted 2 years ago was not entered & saved in the "new" records system at the Catatan Sipil and I needed to provide photocopies of all personal documents again. So on another day I returned to the Catatan Sipil with all the requested photocopies and gave them to the same friendly supervisor. That supervisor told me that because my current KITAP will expire in 3 months : at this time all my personal data will be entered & saved in the records system at the Catatan Sipil and a new photo for KTP will be taken of me, however my e-KTP will be issued when I receive my new KITAP in december or january. That was a nice & painless experience...
For those who are curious about the e-KTP for KITAP holders : last week I visited the Catatan Sipil office in my city of Tangerang Selatan, Banten to inquire about what I needed to do to convert my paper KTP OA into an e-KTP : which I should had received 2 years ago when my family relocated to Tangerang Selatan and both my wife & I were issued new KTP's by Tangerang Selatan. At the Catatan Sipil I was told by a department supervisor that because I am not an Indonesian citizen, all my personal data submitted 2 years ago was not entered & saved in the "new" records system at the Catatan Sipil and I needed to provide photocopies of all personal documents again. So on another day I returned to the Catatan Sipil with all the requested photocopies and gave them to the same friendly supervisor. That supervisor told me that because my current KITAP will expire in 3 months : at this time all my personal data will be entered & saved in the records system at the Catatan Sipil and a new photo for KTP will be taken of me, however my e-KTP will be issued when I receive my new KITAP in december or january. That was a nice & painless experience...
interesting info , I was told just over a year ago when I received my ktp oa at catalin cipil badung, only indonesian citizens receive an e ktp , clearly the story is changing ,
I would be interested to know your process for kitap renewal , thanks.
all4ywh
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"the story is changing" based on the regulation issued way back in december 2013 which originally was referred to by jstar in his post #32 in this thread : http://peraturan.go.id/uu/nomor-24-tahun-2013.html
As mentioned in my previous post and based on that regulation from almost 3 years ago : 2 years ago in july 2014, as a KITAP holder I should had received an e-KTP.
In case you are not aware : the requirement by the national government is for all citizens and KITAP holders by september 30th to submit a request for a free conversion to an e-KTP. The department supervisor at my city's Catatan Sipil told me that there would be a penalty fee charged for those individuals who did not submit their request by september 30th; however that department supervisor did not know the amount of the fee yet.
I will ask again about the fee when I return to that Catatan Sipil to have my new photo taken...
As mentioned in my previous post and based on that regulation from almost 3 years ago : 2 years ago in july 2014, as a KITAP holder I should had received an e-KTP.
In case you are not aware : the requirement by the national government is for all citizens and KITAP holders by september 30th to submit a request for a free conversion to an e-KTP. The department supervisor at my city's Catatan Sipil told me that there would be a penalty fee charged for those individuals who did not submit their request by september 30th; however that department supervisor did not know the amount of the fee yet.
I will ask again about the fee when I return to that Catatan Sipil to have my new photo taken...clearly even major catalan cipil offices like badung, who deal with many kitap holders re ktp are not aware of the law as of last year , why am I not suprised ?? , we will clearly have to check with them again , I will post the news as I have .
ps latest info re deadline , it is felt by the government 30 sept is not realistic so they have extended to 2017 , kawin campur website my wife just checked.
ps latest info re deadline , it is felt by the government 30 sept is not realistic so they have extended to 2017 , kawin campur website my wife just checked.
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Not that surprising really. Last time I was at immigration, I took a peek at the statistic board that they have, and even in Denpasar, the KanIm deals with about 1 KITAP a month...so lets say 12 per year. How many of those bother/know to get KTP-OA? Plus one KanIm usually covers many regencies so the CatSip may get a fraction of KTP-OA requests.
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