It's already happening, the US tariff on Indonesia is 32%, one of the highest one

[centurion]

The Indonesian government just played the same game with Apple and came out $1 billion US richer. It didn't happen overnight. Both parties had to lose for a little while and let the reality set in. Same story here. It's an economic game of chicken. Who can last the longest before giving in? Vietnam is already buying everything they can from China, The only things they are buying from the US are things they can't get otherwise.

But when Indonesian government plays that game there are tens or hundreds of thousands of layoffs in other sectors because of irrrational economic and foreign investment policies that chase out investors, for one Apple that will employ 1.000 people.
US can afford themselves to play like that because they have the technology and know-how to produce everything in thecountry if they need to, and they have the leverage for twisting hands.

 

[Balifrog]

On every ordered package I receive from abroad in Indonesia I am charged minimum 44-45%.

One of the reason I have stopped adding to my collection of model cars.
If I order 50 euro goods, after freight and taxes it cost me 100 euro.
To note that import tax is calculated on the CIF total of the invoice.

 

[El_Goretto]

It's astounding the number of people (and this thread is a good representation of the phenomenon) who just took the list of Tariffs imposed on the US by other countries from the Trump team, as face value. Even when the calculation is put in your face, you still don't understand.

Trade deficit percentage is NOT a tariffs.

And in what world does the US wants an equal trade balance with each country? It's ridiculous! The US is the biggest consumer market in the world, it will always have a trade deficit (on goods).

Let's look at Madagascar. The tariff the US imposed on them is 57 fucking percents. One of the poorest countries in the world! Boohoo, Madagascar ApPliEs 93% tArIfFs! UnFaIr!

U.S. total goods trade with Madagascar were $786.6 million in 2024. U.S. goods exports to Madagascar in 2024 were $53.4 million, down 13.2 percent ($8.1 million) from 2023. U.S. goods imports from Madagascar in 2024 were $733.2 million, up 1.7 percent ($12.0 million) from 2023. The U.S. goods trade deficit with Madagascar was $679.8 million in 2024, a 3.1 percent increase ($20.2 million) over 2023.

Source: https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/africa/madagascar

Indeed, $679 mill / $733 mill * 100 = 92.6% trade deficit. That's how they calculated this bullshit.

But let's look closer, shall we?

2024 US GDP: $29 Trillion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_GDP)

2024 Madagascar GDP: $17 Billion (https://www.worldeconomics.com/GrossDomesticProduct/Current-GDP/Madagascar.aspx)

2024 Madagascar exports to the US as percentage of its GDP: $733.2 Mill / $17 Bill * 100 = 4.3%. In other words, Madagascar exports to the US represent 4.3% of its GDP. Not huge but not insignificant.

2024 US exports to Madagascar as percentage of its GDP: $53.4 Mill / $29 Trillion = 0.000184%. In other words, US exports to Madagascar represent 0.000184% of its GDP. In other words, exports to the US are 427,000x more important to Madagascar's economy than exports to Madagascar are to the US economy.

So the US is bullying one of the poorest nations on earth for a trade value that has a negligible impact. And that's without counting the stop of USAID to the country.

Now, let's open the other can of worms of all the US sport apparel brands manufacturing in Cambodia, Vietnam, Bangladesh, etc. Maybe they should look in-ward a little? And what do they think will happen to the domestic prices of those goods when these brands have to pass onto the US consumers the cost of moving production to the US? It makes 0 sense.

 

[Balifrog]

It makes 0 sense

Nobody said it did....

IMO, give it a month or two.

There are already plenty exemptions BTW

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/oil-imports-exempted-trumps-sweeping-tariffs-2025-04-02/

What Products and Which Countries Are Exempted From Trump's Tariffs?

The White House said a number of goods and economies will be exempted from the

www.wsj.com

 

[Hawk256]

It makes 0 sense.

Like I said before, he doesn't intend these tariffs to stick. They are a tool to put the other countries in a weak bargaining position. Nobody wants to renegotiate if they are happy with what they have. Not saying that this method is right or wrong but it should be effective at getting people to the table which is what he wants.

 

[fastpitch17]

It has been mentioned that these are not really tarrifs based on reciprocal tarrifs. That is just another lie or completely having no knowledge of what he's getting behind. Probably both. They are for most cases the difference in trade Ballance and his drugs have taken over if he thinks he is going to get a Ballance. As for companies moving to or back to the US, it isn't gonna happen. Trump created a lot of chaos and for that reason alone businesses are hesitant to reinvest in things that could easily be money losers. Plus, manufacturing in the US will raise prices and those prices could easily be higher than if the tariffs were applied by staying where they are.

All this talk from the government about 50 nations that have contacted them to work out trump's want is just another lie since no nation can be named. Many are claiming SE Asian nations are giving in to trump's demands but just today the President of Asian said that they are all going to collectively challenge trump's claims of reciprocal tariffs. Malaysia was hit with 45% but they insist they have no tariffs close to that. Reciprocal is but a word trump can use to lie to his baseband give Fox news something to spin as they put out their state run propaganda.

If this goes away in a month or two like Balifrog thinks, it will most likely not come from nations bargaining with trump but from the people and his own party going against him. The US markets are in a free fall pulling with them markets from around the world. Retirement investments are getting decimated. They are not going to sit still for long no matter what trump and his unqualified advisors try to convince them of.

 

[El_Goretto]

Like I said before, he doesn't intend these tariffs to stick. They are a tool to put the other countries in a weak bargaining position. Nobody wants to renegotiate if they are happy with what they have. Not saying that this method is right or wrong but it should be effective at getting people to the table which is what he wants.

Or not.

What is the point for a country like Madagascar to negotiate? To achieve what exactly? Even with 0 tariffs on US imports into Madagascar, the trade balance would not shift significantly. Not even close. Malagasy will not have more purchasing power for US goods, nor is the economy strong enough.

And then you have other economies that have enough bargaining chips to actually retaliate, such as Europe or China. Worth noting, and you can't make this shit up, that Japan and South Korea, long time US allies, are now joining with China to respond as a team against those tariffs.

This is just strenghthening China's position, they have been making in-roads with most of the economies affected by the tariffs, they have a growing huge middle class which will give them a strong local consumer market and they are already beating the US with their EV cars.

Reminds me of a joke I saw today:

Trump was given permission to return to Earth one hour after his ascension.
He walked into a bar in New York and asked the bartender how things were going in the United States.
The bartender exclaimed: "Wow, sir, thanks to you, we have the most incredible empire! Greenland, Panama and Canada are all ours!"
"That's great," Trump said, "What about Europe?" "Oh," said the bartender, "They're at our feet too!" "That's beautiful," said Trump. "Well, I have to go back now and tell Musk the good news. By the way, how much is the drink?"
"Fifty Renminbi," the bartender replied.

Joke aside, I have visited both the US (Chicago, New York and Philadelphia) and Shanghai. The difference is stark, it's not even close. In Shanghai: futuristic EV everywhere, lightning fast and efficient public transports, robots delivering room service, sci-fi worthy city skylines, a city full of restaurants with actual lines of people outside because of how much money people have to spend on entertainment.
In the US: Drunkos, syringes, grafittis, and tents, in the city center. Lovely.

I'm not particularly pro-China, but the US has become a shit-hole, lead by shit flinging monkeys, making everyone eat shit, especially US citizen. But hey, they get what they voted for. Enjoy.

 

[centurion]

It's astounding the number of people (and this thread is a good representation of the phenomenon) who just took the list of Tariffs imposed on the US by other countries from the Trump team, as face value. Even when the calculation is put in your face, you still don't understand.

Trade deficit percentage is NOT a tariffs.

And in what world does the US wants an equal trade balance with each country? It's ridiculous! The US is the biggest consumer market in the world, it will always have a trade deficit (on goods).

Let's look at Madagascar. The tariff the US imposed on them is 57 fucking percents. One of the poorest countries in the world! Boohoo, Madagascar ApPliEs 93% tArIfFs! UnFaIr!


Source: https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/africa/madagascar

Indeed, $679 mill / $733 mill * 100 = 92.6% trade deficit. That's how they calculated this bullshit.

But let's look closer, shall we?

2024 US GDP: $29 Trillion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_GDP)

2024 Madagascar GDP: $17 Billion (https://www.worldeconomics.com/GrossDomesticProduct/Current-GDP/Madagascar.aspx)

2024 Madagascar exports to the US as percentage of its GDP: $733.2 Mill / $17 Bill * 100 = 4.3%. In other words, Madagascar exports to the US represent 4.3% of its GDP. Not huge but not insignificant.

2024 US exports to Madagascar as percentage of its GDP: $53.4 Mill / $29 Trillion = 0.000184%. In other words, US exports to Madagascar represent 0.000184% of its GDP. In other words, exports to the US are 427,000x more important to Madagascar's economy than exports to Madagascar are to the US economy.

So the US is bullying one of the poorest nations on earth for a trade value that has a negligible impact. And that's without counting the stop of USAID to the country.

Now, let's open the other can of worms of all the US sport apparel brands manufacturing in Cambodia, Vietnam, Bangladesh, etc. Maybe they should look in-ward a little? And what do they think will happen to the domestic prices of those goods when these brands have to pass onto the US consumers the cost of moving production to the US? It makes 0 sense.

So you think US should continue printing dollars and increasing its deficit forever? To have the most open economy in G20 while the others protect their markets?

 

[Hawk256]

Or not.

What is the point for a country like Madagascar to negotiate? To achieve what exactly? Even with 0 tariffs on US imports into Madagascar, the trade balance would not shift significantly. Not even close. Malagasy will not have more purchasing power for US goods, nor is the economy strong enough.

Madagascar got caught in the crossfire. To keep it from looking like Trump was picking on certain countries and alienating them more, he just did an all at once thing. Unfortunately with that tactic, there will be casualties. Again, I'm saying I support his actions just trying to explain what I think the reasoning is behind them. I'm no political expert or economist but these actions scream Negotiations 101.

 

[Hawk256]

So you think US should continue printing dollars and increasing its deficit forever? To have the most open economy in G20 while the others protect their markets?

Eventually someone will get caught holding the bill. So far the administrations have not changed tactics for years. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Saving for your future takes money out of your pocket now but will help you in the future. We need to adapt that concept to the debt situation. It may sting for a little while but would lead to a better future. If it works, at least.

 

[El_Goretto]

So you think US should continue printing dollars and increasing its deficit forever? To have the most open economy in G20 while the others protect their markets?

Where have I said such thing?

But if we're going down that road, no I don't think it should. I also don't think blanket tariffs are the answer, and that appears to be the vast majority consensus in the rest of the world.

I mean, if the US is so uncompetitive for domestic production that many of its big companies have moved their production overseas, the country needs to look inward, not outward.

In a country where the purchasing power is stagnant at best for middle income earners and actually reducing for low income earners, I fail to see how more expensive imports or more expensive domestic production is going to help. The only thing it will help is his orangeness ego and his pyrrhic victory over an improved trade balance. Maybe.

 

[fastpitch17]

Delivered by clerk on legislature floor.
"Clerk:

To the congress..
I'm providing notice of certain actions I have taken to deal with the unusual and extraordinary threat to the United States economy and national security imposed by the underlying conditions with our trade with foreign nations including a lack of reciprocity in our bilateral trade relationships…

I have determined that it is necessary and appropriate to impose additional duties on imports of goods from our trading partners..

Signed Donald J. Trump

Many are saying this may be the first step in declaring the War Powers Act that will give him even more power to destroy the US. People are not coming to negotiate like he thought they would. Large US manufacturers located outside the US have stated they are not moving. Trump is failing again just like in everything else he has had his hands it.

 

[Balifrog]

From Reuters :

"Trump spoke hours after he ratcheted up a confrontation with China, the world's No. 2 economy.
Trump said he would impose an additional 50% duty on U.S. imports from China on Wednesday if it did not withdraw the 34% tariffs it had imposed on U.S. products last week. Those Chinese tariffs had come in response to 34% "reciprocal" duties announced by Trump."

Trump should understand that face is the most important thing for Asians. There is no way Xi will give in and lose face in front of all Asia. And Chinese people, if properly "motivated" can take more suffering than American people.
Interesting how this, and the EU / US confrontatio will work out.....

 

[centurion]

Where have I said such thing?

But if we're going down that road, no I don't think it should. I also don't think blanket tariffs are the answer, and that appears to be the vast majority consensus in the rest of the world.

I mean, if the US is so uncompetitive for domestic production that many of its big companies have moved their production overseas, the country needs to look inward, not outward.

In a country where the purchasing power is stagnant at best for middle income earners and actually reducing for low income earners, I fail to see how more expensive imports or more expensive domestic production is going to help. The only thing it will help is his orangeness ego and his pyrrhic victory over an improved trade balance. Maybe.

US could engage in careful review of their monetary and fiscal policy, and negotiating with its biggest trading partners to lower the imbalalance. That would take years. With the present way, all trading partners are lining up to negotiate lower tariffs. So this appears to be faster.

As it appears US is asking other countries to open their economies and buy more US goods as well. This could be good for the US but also a zero -sum game, where they benefit at the cost of others.

Countries like Indonesia have protected economies by tariff and non-tariff barriers. I was wondering if some of big countries (US/EU) would ever complain on this seriouslly. EU basically blocked Indonesian palm oil and textile, but never thought it will be on a such a mass scale with US.

 

[Shadrach]

This is what Reciprocal Tariffs look like!

 

[gemima]

Like I said before, he doesn't intend these tariffs to stick. They are a tool to put the other countries in a weak bargaining position. Nobody wants to renegotiate if they are happy with what they have. Not saying that this method is right or wrong but it should be effective at getting people to the table which is what he wants.

I think he is thick enough that he will resist dropping them - yes he'll do some deals that enrich himself (and sometimes that will also enrich america) but most of the weak/ poor countries wont be able to offer him anything that will be worth it to him.
He's slapped 10% on countries that have negative trade differences with the USA for christ sake - why would they keep buying american stuff now.

The man is obsessed with tariffs. Has been since the 80s.

Some countries deserve to be picked on - Indonesia being one of them. I personally agree with the policy of calling out trade barriers. But I dont for one second believe that is what Trump is doing right now.

 

[fastpitch17]

Trump claimed it was all about tariffs on the US goods. EU offered 0 for 0 and trump refused. Said not good enough. So, not about the tariffs after all. Trade imbalance is what he should have said in the beginning. This reciprocal claim is just another lie from trump.

 

[Bob]

Like I said before, he doesn't intend these tariffs to stick. They are a tool to put the other countries in a weak bargaining position. Nobody wants to renegotiate if they are happy with what they have. Not saying that this method is right or wrong but it should be effective at getting people to the table which is what he wants.

Or he could just invite those people to the table and bypass the chaos.

 

[fastpitch17]

Or he could just invite those people to the table and bypass the chaos.

That might interfere with his onward accomplishment of winning all the golf tournaments at his properties.

 

[Shadrach]

That might interfere with his onward accomplishment of winning all the golf tournaments at his properties.

He is only interested in stroking his Ego! He is loving this attention, and will do anything for more limelight, even Bankrupt America! There were just 1200 protest across America with Thousands of People saying enough is Enough! Keep your Hands Off! His Republican Congressmen, are afraid to even go home and talk with their constituents. This is happening too fast, and there will be a Crash! How he is getting away with all his antics, is beyond my imagination. He even says he wants to be President for a third term! Which is Unconstitutional. He will probably find some hidden devious law, where he can declare there's a War on America, and the country needs him forever! Madness to the Max!