Indonesia & Corruption: a few articles in the past few weeks

[Shadrach]

I understand that while our discussion initially centred around corruption, there's been a notable shift towards discussing coffee, particularly the steep prices of Starbucks coffee compared to local options like "Kopi Tiam" in Indonesia. While Starbucks may seem pricey locally, its costs aren't unusually high when compared to similar offerings for international travellers, especially in developed nations. However, I fully agree that in many cases, particularly in Indonesia, vendors, contractors, and individuals tend to emphasize the positives to justify their high prices when it suits them, while ignoring other factors such as local wages, the abundant of local commodities like coffee beans, cocoa, and cane sugar. This pattern is also evident in accommodation pricing in Indonesia, where rates are sometimes set similarly to those in other countries. Similarly, to worldwide taxation on income not earned in Indonesia while offering next to none social security benefit. Also recent case of Minister Zulkili Hasab's stance on justifying customs duties and permissible items for personal importation into Indonesia to justify his fail policy reflects this trend.

New customs regulation, only 5kg of processed food allowed per person?

Oh, I thought these travelers were checked at the airport ... The first one about the shoes was a package. Most the Bea Cukai cost was a penalty/fine for lying on the customs form about the value of the contents. I do wonder whether the shipper or the recipient provided that number, I have...

www.expatindo.org

I am not suggesting that Starbucks necessarily produces better coffee than local shops; indeed, some individuals believe their own cappuccino machines brew superior coffee over the long term than SB. However, it's surprising that there are still individuals willing to pay £265 or Rp5.35 million for a cup of coffee.

The UK's most expensive cup of coffee is being sold in Mayfair... for £265

Don’t they know there’s a cost of living crisis?

www.timeout.com

UK's 'most expensive cup of coffee' being sold for eye-watering £265 in Mayfair

Speciality coffee bar Shot sourced the drink from the Japanese island of Okinawa

www.standard.co.uk

Also some people want to pay more for the coffee bean which are mixed with elephant dung such as Black Ivory. In Indonesia some people also want to try "Kopi Luwa" which shares some similarities in terms of its rarity and unique production method to Black Ivory, paying a premium price.

I don't know much about Black Ivory coffee, but at least the size of the droppings from an Elephant would give someone a lot to dig through! As For Kopi Luwak, they're a pretty small little animal, with a small dropping. It is a great business for the coffee shops, and the drivers, that bring the tourist to experience such a luxurious cup of coffee! I've seen photos, of these places. They all have a Luwak, or two in a small cage, in front of the establishment, Where they give the tourist a comfortable spot to sit, and bring out a huge tray with many different types of flavored coffee! Maybe ,they actually do give a small cup of real Luwak coffee. I haven't been to these places so, I can't really say for sure!
But one thing for sure is they charge a high price for this specialty coffee! I don't believe it is possible to find enough droppings, from these little animals, to be able to produce Kilo's of coffee! Maybe I am just being too skeptical, to think, This could be a Scam! Is it possible, this Kopi Luwak is really not 100% real coffee from the Luwak? If there is actually any in the bag at all?
If you know please tell us?

 

[harryopal1]

I don't know much about Black Ivory coffee, but at least the size of the droppings from an Elephant would give someone a lot to dig through! As For Kopi Luwak, they're a pretty small little animal, with a small dropping. It is a great business for the coffee shops, and the drivers, that bring the tourist to experience such a luxurious cup of coffee! I've seen photos, of these places. They all have a Luwak, or two in a small cage, in front of the establishment, Where they give the tourist a comfortable spot to sit, and bring out a huge tray with many different types of flavored coffee! Maybe ,they actually do give a small cup of real Luwak coffee. I haven't been to these places so, I can't really say for sure!
But one thing for sure is they charge a high price for this specialty coffee! I don't believe it is possible to find enough droppings, from these little animals, to be able to produce Kilo's of coffee! Maybe I am just being too skeptical, to think, This could be a Scam! Is it possible, this Kopi Luwak is really not 100% real coffee from the Luwak? If there is actually any in the bag at all?
If you know please tell us?

There is hardly an area of large scale animal husbandry that is not associated with appalling treatment of animals. You may find this link answers some of your questions.

Civet Cat Coffee: The Animal Cruelty Behind Kopi Luwak

Today, we'll explore the controversial world of Kopi Luwak, the world's most luxurious coffee. Often admired for its unique taste, this exotic Indonesian delicacy has a dark secret hidden in its production—animal cruelty. Whether you're a coffee enthusiast or an advocate for animals, read on as...

www.animalhearted.com

 

[fastpitch17]

I don't know much about Black Ivory coffee, but at least the size of the droppings from an Elephant would give someone a lot to dig through! As For Kopi Luwak, they're a pretty small little animal, with a small dropping. It is a great business for the coffee shops, and the drivers, that bring the tourist to experience such a luxurious cup of coffee! I've seen photos, of these places. They all have a Luwak, or two in a small cage, in front of the establishment, Where they give the tourist a comfortable spot to sit, and bring out a huge tray with many different types of flavored coffee! Maybe ,they actually do give a small cup of real Luwak coffee. I haven't been to these places so, I can't really say for sure!
But one thing for sure is they charge a high price for this specialty coffee! I don't believe it is possible to find enough droppings, from these little animals, to be able to produce Kilo's of coffee! Maybe I am just being too skeptical, to think, This could be a Scam! Is it possible, this Kopi Luwak is really not 100% real coffee from the Luwak? If there is actually any in the bag at all?
If you know please tell us?

Originally Luwak coffee beens were gathered from wild Luwak trails. Availability was extremely small. It demanded high prices simply because of it's rare type, effort to collect, and limited numbers.

It became popular and the demand grew. The demand could not be reached so the brains decided to get themselves a bunch of Luwak, put them in cages, and feed them coffee berries. The result was Luwak coffee piling up under the cages. No more following animal trails. Many got into the Luwak coffee business. Of course, they expected the same high price as the wild Luwak but couldn't get it but still much higher price than your shelf bought coffees. The wild became marketed as such demanding a higher price than cage produced. Over a not too long of time, more and more Luwak coffee was advertised as wild demanding the higher price. Fact was, the confined Luwak dropped coffee was being offered as wild. No one trusted wild Luwak coffee any longer and put some of the wild offerings out if business.

Unfortunately, other coffee producers and bulk buyers seen that there was money in this Luwak thing and started offering other coffees as authentic Luwak to get the added profits. Unless a consumer is physically present were actual Luwak coffee is collected and processed, one would have no idea if it's Luwak or not.

I have tried wild and confined Luwak coffees. No difference in taste if roasted the same. I have tried them in comparison to other Indonesian coffees. Not better. I have had coffees from all over Indonesia. I am partial to the Northern Sumatra coffees. One Bali coffee if we want to go more light flavored.

Elephant dung coffee. Gimmick. I'll pass. It's all marketing. Remember Juan Valdez and his donkey? Sold tons of Columbian coffee. Made it the biggest supplier in the world. Labels started listing Columbian coffee in their blends. Did you know that when the world's coffee aficiatos got together for their judging expertise, Columbian coffee was rated right down towards the bottom. It was maybe the most successful marketing ever though.

 

[serious_fun]

Another article about Indo's nickel sector and the increasing scrutiny over alleged corruption.

 

[harryopal1]

Another article about Indo's nickel sector and the increasing scrutiny over alleged corruption.

What we call corruption and bribes many multi national companies simply regard as Facilitation fees, a term that I am sure recipients of such fees would much prefer. I suspect that if it were possible to gather up all those who have accepted facilitation fees there would not be enough gaols to accommodate them.

 

[Bob]

What we call corruption and bribes many multi national companies simply regard as Facilitation fees, a term that I am sure recipients of such fees would much prefer. I suspect that if it were possible to gather up all those who have accepted facilitation fees there would not be enough gaols to accommodate them.
View attachment 3978

I'm not sure if that's still prevalent. Not to say it doesn't happen but North American and European governments take a much dimmer view of it than they did a few years ago.

 

[pantaiema]

Another instance illustrating the widespread presence of corruption in Indonesian higher education is the misallocation of KIP funds. Originally designed to support financially disadvantaged university students, this assistance often finds its way to wealthy students who spend most of their time flaunting their wealth.

Kemendikbud: Penerima KIP Kuliah Bergaya Hidup Mewah Diminta Mundur

Pihak Kemendikbud Ristek menyebutkan, jika kondisi ekonomi penerima KIP Kuliah sudah mampu, maka sebaiknya mundur.

www.kompas.com

Examining past corruption cases in Indonesia, spanning from elementary to higher education, it becomes apparent how funds could easily fall into the hands of students who don't genuinely need them.

Corruption at the universities is one of the reason contributes to the stark differences in quality among university graduates, doctors, dentists, etc.

If Indonesia is serious to combat corruption it should follow the path from China. Big corruptors should be facing death penalty.

 

[serious_fun]

If Indonesia is serious to combat corruption i should follow the path from China. Big corrupters should be facing death penalty.

I'm not sure if China is the model to emulate; Xi uses anti-corruption punishment as a way to shore up his rule and to build support for the CCP.

I agree that these cases of corruption of public funds must be dealt with seriously and severely. Bankrupting/stripping assets of those involved plus incarceration would seem to be more appropriate than execution...with the possibility of a lighter sentence if the guilty party/ies turn informant. "Dead men tell no tales" -- the execution of those apprehended and found guilty would bring a sigh of relief to 'the others' who were not caught.

 

[pantaiema]

I'm not sure if China is the model to emulate; Xi uses anti-corruption punishment as a way to shore up his rule and to build support for the CCP.

I agree that these cases of corruption of public funds must be dealt with seriously and severely. Bankrupting/stripping assets of those involved plus incarceration would seem to be more appropriate than execution...with the possibility of a lighter sentence if the guilty party/ies turn informant. "Dead men tell no tales" -- the execution of those apprehended and found guilty would bring a sigh of relief to 'the others' who were not caught.

This might be applicable to the small fry but not the colossal whales. And what might be overlooked here is the context: THIS IS INDONESIA, used to be the most corrupt country in the world and nowadays still belongs to the one of the most corrupt country. The whales possess ample resources that could facilitate lighter sentences, such as house arrest or sentence reductions as the case is getting less public attention.

Consider the case of Hutomo Mandala Putra (Tommy Suharto), son of former president Suharto. He gained notoriety for orchestrating the assassination of a judge who ruled against him in a corruption case. Despite receiving a 15-year prison sentence for homicide in 2002, he secured parole in under four years.

Is this justice, especially for the judge's family? How can one expect fair judgement from a judge if their and their family's lifes are at risk?

Examine the current status of this Suharto children; they persist in their illicit pursuits unchecked. Capital punishment for him could have deterred his siblings and others from following suit and the most important thing justice to the judge and encourage other judges to make a more independent judgements.

 

[harryopal1]

During his supposed term of incarceration Tommy was also seen playing golf. He was also known to have been involved in a bomb explosion but it was deemed prudent to ignore this to prevent further attacks.

 

[Samoerai]

If Indonesia is serious to combat corruption ..

Indonesia is not serious about fighting corruption. On the contrary. It invites global corruption to take root in Indonesia. The golden visa is the invitation to the super-rich to buy citizenship and 'park' their dirty money in this country: buying real estate in prime locations. The timing is exactly when they are no longer welcome in other countries (UK).

I predict the prices of real estate will rise even more in prime locations: Jakarta (PIK), Bali, Batam, ...

 

[Brian86]

Indonesia is not serious about fighting corruption. On the contrary. It invites global corruption to take root in Indonesia. The golden visa is the invitation to the super-rich to buy citizenship and 'park' their dirty money in this country: buying real estate in prime locations. The timing is exactly when they are no longer welcome in other countries (UK).

I predict the prices of real estate will rise even more in prime locations: Jakarta (PIK), Bali, Batam, ...

But the golden visa program doesn't give them citizenship or any special real estate privileges... ?

 

[Samoerai]

But the golden visa program doesn't give them citizenship or any special real estate privileges... ?

Oh, yes of course .. my mistake .. the golden visa Indonesia is different than other countries golden visa. Only residency for max 10 years.

 

[Samoerai]

This might be applicable to the small fry but not the colossal whales. And what might be overlooked here is the context: THIS IS INDONESIA, used to be the most corrupt country in the world and nowadays still belongs to the one of the most corrupt country.

On all levels of society ... according to this video about Indonesia ...

 

[harryopal1]

On all levels of society ... according to this video about Indonesia ...

Never mind. The new government will fix everything.