How do you guys invest?

[jstar]

"GR-91 reduces the WHT rate on bond-related investment earned by resident taxpayers and PEs from 15% to 10%. "

As I said, if you have KITAS/P and NPWP the tax is only 10%

But this was a Government Regulation from two years ago only on bonds and it does not explain your ‘refund’ by the HSBC. It was just the implementation of a lower tariff to compete with foreign bonds. Also, deposito and bonds are not treated and taxed the same.

 

[jstar]

Don’t forget that as of tomorrow, all financial institutions as banks will be closed for Eid al-Fitr. For at least a week.

 

[jstar]

Four years after the launch of its own credit card, Apple is now launching its own savings account. It has an interest rate 4.15% per annum. That is quite a bit more than the average (of 0.37%) in the US. It is in partnership with Goldman Sachs.

Only customers who own an Apple Card -6.7 million people at the beginning of last year- can put money on the account. It is (still?) free of charge and can be managed through the Wallet app on the iPhone.

 

[Samoerai]

Four years after the launch of its own credit card, Apple is now launching its own savings account. It has an interest rate 4.15% per annum. That is quite a bit more than the average (of 0.37%) in the US. It is in partnership with Goldman Sachs.

Only customers who own an Apple Card -6.7 million people at the beginning of last year- can put money on the account. It is (still?) free of charge and can be managed through the Wallet app on the iPhone.

I heard from orang Indonesia .. saving money on a bank account in Indonesia one get much more than 4.15% interest. Or .. bohongi saya?

 

[snpark]

I heard from orang Indonesia .. saving money on a bank account in Indonesia one get much more than 4.15% interest. Or .. bohongi saya?

That is the whole point of this thread, so read pp1-22 and get the answer (yes)

 

[jstar]

I heard from orang Indonesia .. saving money on a bank account in Indonesia one get much more than 4.15% interest. Or .. bohongi saya?

That is possible but mostly with online banks (search for Seabank and Allo Bank), the traditional ones offer less. The easiest way is to get a deposito, which gets you even more interest than an account. But the money is only protected (search for LPS) if the interest is lower than a determined level and only up to a certain amount. The LPS percentage is higher at rural banks (search for BPR) than the bigger commercial banks (bank umum). That’s it.

 

[jstar]

Current LPS protection:

 

[snpark]

Dear Customers,

Thank you for your trust in PT Bank HSBC Indonesia (“HSBC”).

In accordance with the Minister of Finance (MoF) Regulation Number 112/PMK.03/2022 concerning Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) for Individual Taxpayers, Corporate Taxpayers, Government Agency Taxpayers and Non-resident Individual Taxpayers issued in July 2022, regulates the 16-digits TIN valid from 1 January 2024 (“PMK 112”). This change is the responsibility of each Taxpayers to ensure that 16-digit TIN is validated to replace the existing 15-digit TIN.

Owing to this, HSBC encourages all non-resident individual customers to immediately validate their 16- digit TIN based on the following steps:

Validate 16-digit TIN independently through the website of the Directorate General of Taxes (DGT) (djponline.pajak.go.id).
Adding the number “0” in front of existing TIN for non-resident individual taxpayers.
Example:
Existing TIN → 01.000.123.4-091.000 (15 digits)
New TIN → 0010001234091000 (16 digits)
For tutorial, you can use the link provided: Tutorial Login Pajak.go.id and TIN validation - YouTube
If HSBC Customers have successfully validated their 16-Digit TIN on DGT portal, HSBC customers are advised to immediately update their data to HSBC by submitting proof of validation, which can be either:
Screenshot of validation proof with DJP logo, or
NPWP card with 16-digit TIN (can be downloaded from the Directorate General of Taxes website)
along with customer information update form. The customer information update form can be accessed through our website: Banking Customer Information Update form, Furthermore, the HSBC Customers is expected to submit this form to the nearest HSBC branch or by contacting the HSBC Call Center at 1500 700 (Premier), 1500 808 (Advance).

HSBC Customers are expected to submit the 16-digit TIN along with the supporting documents above by 30 June 2023.

 

[make_batik_great_again]

Maybe I need to speak to my RM because I'm pretty sure I pay 15% on my FR bonds (and the bank has my NPWP) - I never see it in the account because they just pay out the total after they take off the tax. I have a payout coming up in May so I'll check then.

You should probably check that. I received my interest from my FR bonds now for the first time, and I can confirm what snpark wrote: They charged me only 10% tax (probably because the bank has my NPWP).

 

[make_batik_great_again]

Current LPS protection:

View attachment 2959

A little irritating to me that there are not different limits for different deposit durations. Usually: The longer term your deposit, the higher the interest rate.

For the bank, and probably also for the economy, also better (regarding planning) to have the money longer term.

But with the interest rate rising with the duration of the deposit, some longer term deposits are not covered by LPS anymore.

 

[jstar]

Btw, I‘m quite glad now I took the profit on Tesla before the stock split. It is quite amazing what is happening there.

Obviously there are some (external) reasons why it’s somewhat cumbersome. The stagnating sales in China, the government there being difficult, the competition of BYD and NIO etc. Then there’s the constant delay of the Cybertruck. And the European (and Korean!) manufacturers as VW (with Audi and Porsche), Volvo/Polestar and KIA/Hyundai/Genesis also finally discovered the EV. Then there’s huge issues with the Indian government with an impasse on the factory there. The Berlin factory is also not optimal yet in its output (only 2 colors, the others from China).

But the whole Twitter going down the drain saga taking up time and focus from Musk definitely doesn’t help either. And as cherry on the cake he alienates his followers and (potential) customers with radical political statements. Let’s face it, a lower class white factory worker in America’s rural areas doesn’t really want to buy a model S. And you can be against subsidies but even a dog doesn’t bite the hand that feeds him.

Having said that, I personally don't see lower than a $100 on the horizon; the PepsiCo trucks are good news and the CyberTrucks are finally being built as we speak. A newer model 3 with major cost cutting techniques (as the model Y) is announced and a model 2 in the pipeline would also improve the situation.

Tesla shares in after-hours trading after the electric vehicle maker posted its lowest quarterly gross margin in two years…

They lowered their prices so much that compared to the comparable EV’s of Volkswagen, Stellantis, Ford, GM and even the Chinese, their cars are ‘cheap’.

The profit per car is still considerable but of course it does have an impact.

 

[pantaiema]

Tesla shares in after-hours trading after the electric vehicle maker posted its lowest quarterly gross margin in two years…

View attachment 2970

They lowered their prices so much that compared to the comparable EV’s of Volkswagen, Stellantis, Ford, GM and even the Chinese, their cars are ‘cheap’.

The profit per car is still considerable but of course it does have an impact.

The problem with legacy auto makers such as Volkswagen, Stellantis, Ford, GM, they still have the burden from Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) that still need to be maintained, although it is a declining market. So it is rather difficult to scale it up rather quickly to meet demand in line with tougher regulation toward environment, and air quality in the city.
But as a legacy auto makers who have been in business for ages, they gain advantage as the first movers, adopters.

 

[make_batik_great_again]

Tesla shares in after-hours trading after the electric vehicle maker posted its lowest quarterly gross margin in two years…

View attachment 2970

They lowered their prices so much that compared to the comparable EV’s of Volkswagen, Stellantis, Ford, GM and even the Chinese, their cars are ‘cheap’.

The profit per car is still considerable but of course it does have an impact.

Tesla shares lost quite a bit after investors looked at the details and joined the earnings-call.

Cash flow was very disappointing, failed the expectations - probably due to the many price decreases (If I got it right, especially the price of Model Y was lowered many times this year).

Also some statements during the earnings call seemed to be disappointing. It seems Tesla is focussing on market shares in the automotive market instead of focussing on profitability.

I‘ve never been invested into Tesla. But it would be interesting to see how the stock‘s value will react if margins and cash flow get more pressure by further price decreases of Model Y and so on.

 

[jstar]

I‘ve never been invested into Tesla. But it would be interesting to see how the stock‘s value will react if margins and cash flow get more pressure by further price decreases of Model Y and so on.

The earnings call was also not so well prepared.

The Model Y is the best sold car in Europe in 2023 so far. Which is an amazing achievement for an EV. Also in the US behind the large pickups of course. The good thing about that car (compared to the Model 3) is the decrease in production costs by using new techniques. Those will also applied in the Model 3 after the facelift.

Bought them yesterday again at $161. I do expect a bit of a correction today (being Friday) unless everybody got really nervous. We’ll see.

 

[make_batik_great_again]

The yield on government bonds in the US and some European countries became quite attractive. For US gov bonds you can get between 4.5 to 5 % at the moment. In comparison, yield on Indonesian gov bonds (FR*) is less than 6% (if you do not want to choose very long-term bonds).

Seems that the risk premium on Emerging Markets (or at least on Indonesian) bonds is uncommonly low at the moment.

 

[pantaiema]

The yield on government bonds in the US and some European countries became quite attractive. For US gov bonds you can get between 4.5 to 5 % at the moment. In comparison, yield on Indonesian gov bonds (FR*) is less than 6% (if you do not want to choose very long-term bonds).

Seems that the risk premium on Emerging Markets (or at least on Indonesian) bonds is uncommonly low at the moment.

For such a small margin, might be not worthy. Also just be aware of the possibility of IDR redenomination. They have been preparing for it since 2010. They are just waiting for the right moment to execute it.

I personally do not like to invest in Bonds. In the long run equity will always outperform bonds. If you see the proven billionaires investors such as Warren Buffet, Peter Lynch, Carl Icahn. They dislike Bonds. Bond for them is just for temporary parking.

 

[make_batik_great_again]

Also just be aware of the possibility of IDR redenomination. They have been preparing for it since 2010. They are just waiting for the right moment to execute it.

I never heard of that before, to be honest. Do you have a link to a news article or document or so? Would be interesting for people like me that are new to this topic.

I personally do not like to invest in Bonds. In the long run equity will always outperform bonds. If you see the proven billionaires investors such as Warren Buffet, Peter Lynch, Carl Icahn. They dislike Bonds. Bond for them is just for temporary parking.

I agree with you on that. Better to invest in ETF or stocks if it is money that you do not need and that stays invested long-term. But for money that you might need short- oder medium-term or in order to have a diversified portfolio, bonds can make sense.

I am just surprised by the very little risk premium for Emerging Markets bonds. I thought they would not be able to compete and would have to offer higher yield than 6% if US and European bonds promise a much higher yield than in the years before.

 

[pantaiema]

I never heard of that before, to be honest. Do you have a link to a news article or document or so? Would be interesting for people like me that are new to this topic.

There is already a Thread about this in this Forum. There are various links and Video clips on that thread.

Prepare for this : re-denomination of IDR1,000 to IDR1.

https://www.cnbcindonesia.com/news/20230623163047-4-448756/kapan-ubah-rp-1000-jadi-rp-1-dimulai-ini-jawaban-bos-bi https://www.cnbcindonesia.com/news/20230623134548-4-448669/wah-bi-sudah-siapkan-desain-redenominasi-rp-1000-jadi-rp-1 In other countries such as in Zimbabwe, Mozambique...

www.expatindo.org

I agree with you on that. Better to invest in ETF or stocks if it is money that you do not need and that stays invested long-term. But for money that you might need short- oder medium-term or in order to have a diversified portfolio, bonds can make sense.

I am just surprised by the very little risk premium for Emerging Markets bonds. I thought they would not be able to compete and would have to offer higher yield than 6% if US and European bonds promise a much higher yield than in the years before.

For the people who know how to do it and have determination to do it they could get account paying 9%, 7.5%, 6.25% instant access, no risk (of losing your initial investment) in the UK. YES you read it right, it is not a typo. But there is a catch as you could only put a very small amount. Also it is variable rate so the rate could change at any time. But there is nothing to prevent people to open multiple accounts with multiple banks.

 

[make_batik_great_again]

There is already a Thread about this in this Forum. There are various links and Video clips on that thread.

Prepare for this : re-denomination of IDR1,000 to IDR1.

https://www.cnbcindonesia.com/news/20230623163047-4-448756/kapan-ubah-rp-1000-jadi-rp-1-dimulai-ini-jawaban-bos-bi https://www.cnbcindonesia.com/news/20230623134548-4-448669/wah-bi-sudah-siapkan-desain-redenominasi-rp-1000-jadi-rp-1 In other countries such as in Zimbabwe, Mozambique...

www.expatindo.org

Thank you, very interesting. I did not hear about it before. With elections coming up, I am really curious if this will happen.

 

[fastpitch17]

Thank you, very interesting. I did not hear about it before. With elections coming up, I am really curious if this will happen.

Well, I think it had come up before the the last 3 or 4 elections too so as always, wait and see.