How do you guys invest?

Ruserious

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Im curious for UK, Aussie or US expats in Indonesia on how you are investing. Do you use a company such as vanguard and if so do you use an address in a home country as i dont think they allow Indonesian residents? Or if not Vanguard is there another company that you use?

Im a bit of a doom and gloom and as such presume that a global recession is heading soon but i still want to be ready to get back into the markets. My experience with the expat financial advisors has not been that good and ive heard lots of horror stories from friends so im avoiding that route.
 

snpark

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Who or what is vanguard? An app? A company?

In indonesia I have a lot of cash with HSBC ORI11 government bonds which pay 8.75% p.a and dividends 1/4ly
I would steer clear of most of the expat companies here as they are not the most professional you will ever meet.
Some of the banks here have good deals for investments in IDR and USD if you can find the right person to explain it to you

My HSBC relationship manager moved to Mega Bank. I can send you her details if you are interested. She has access to some good decent secure investments
 

dafluff

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Vanguard is a big US investment broker.

If you are unable to invest using a broker from your home country, you can always go to Singapore and open an account there. It used to be much easier, but with increased KYC rules, it has gotten harder. Still if you are planning on investing a good sum ($200k +), most Singapore banks will accommodate. From there you can invest in basically any big market.

If you hold KITAS/P, you can also invest in Indonesian stock market, and opening a local brokerage account is not that hard. It is relatively volatile (as all small emerging market stocks are), so it is obviously not for everyone.
 

snpark

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Oh that Vanguard. Sorry. I thought he meant like using gopay or uber or something lol
 

jukung11

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You are correct that most banks and brokers will not let you open an account without a valid tax identification number or address in their jurisdiction. I maintain addresses in other countries. There are many legal and inexpensive ways to do this. There are companies that offer mailing services where they will receive, scan, and email you all mail. If you are not a citizen, you can usually create a corporate entity to get a tax identification number or simply apply to a government as an investor to register your taxes on your investments. I like to keep a diversity of investments with different companies in different currencies. Every few months I sign up or close accounts based on whichever company is offering the best signup bonus for credit cards, bank accounts, and brokerage accounts. Sometimes the signup bonus alone is a greater return than I can get from the amount I deposit.
 

Banana72

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Mostly CDs and lately moving some into FRs and a couple ORI. Rest I just keep with my own trading account overseas.
 

jukung11

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Of course the best investment is zero balance on credit cards
Generally, I agree.

Other circumstances are if you have 0% interest for 12 months. If you are disciplined, you can put daily expenses on the card, put your money in an interest bearing account, and pay it off the balance at the end of the term. It also raises your credit score, decreasing the cost of a lot of other things in life.
 

FireEye

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Im curious for UK, Aussie or US expats in Indonesia on how you are investing. Do you use a company such as vanguard and if so do you use an address in a home country as i dont think they allow Indonesian residents? Or if not Vanguard is there another company that you use?

Im a bit of a doom and gloom and as such presume that a global recession is heading soon but i still want to be ready to get back into the markets. My experience with the expat financial advisors has not been that good and ive heard lots of horror stories from friends so im avoiding that route.
Investment in one of my fav topic.

Hope this might help.

In the US, I use Vanguard only to open my Roth IRA. My employer gave me 401K and RSU and allowed me to purchase their stock with cash reward. I locate my investments in diff buckets while I’m not a big fan of tax exempted investments and Investment that are relying on Market’s Price, I still keep them just to keep my bucket of investments more diverse. Whole life insurances is another form of my investments, I have borrowed against the cash value and invested back in several rental properties. The dividend doesn’t decrease, hence I use it to pay the premium. The income generated from my rental properties is to pay the loan back. The money works for me. On top of this, it comes with a death benefit. But don’t confuse it with term life insurance. They are diff. This is also tax free, except when I close the account.

529 is another form of tax exemption investment I did for kids college later. We started it since they were 5yo.

As easy money under the pillow, I do gold bars and Money Market. However, I don’t consider this as investments, this is more for emergency funds with better yield than savings account.

In Indonesia, I do properties and land. I bought properties in lahan bebas banjir and the rent goes to my parents. They don’t ask but it’s a form of gratitude for raising me with so much love, it’s a cultural thing that I can’t deny being an Indonesian.

I’m sorry you have bad experience with financial advisor. I have a mentor who is an advisor as well, I learned so much abt investments from this lady.
 

FireEye

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Of course the best investment is zero balance on credit cards
If your credit card gives you cash reward, just use it and pay it off before the bank add interest.

Mine gave me 2- 5% cash reward back depending on the purchase. I pay the balance off each time I get pay check (twice a month). Never pay the interest. I collect the reward within one year. By the end of the year I have cash reward collected normally around US$ 2K.
 

dafluff

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If your credit card gives you cash reward, just use it and pay it off before the bank add interest.

Mine gave me 2- 5% cash reward back depending on the purchase. I pay the balance off each time I get pay check (twice a month). Never pay the interest. I collect the reward within one year. By the end of the year I have cash reward collected normally around US$ 2K.
I miss having good cash back cards. Here in Indonesia you can at best get 1%, or very low maximum amounts (like Rp 100,000/month).
 

jstar

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I don't know if @Ruserious is inquiring about the pure mechanism of using brokers and providers in the country or the experience with financial advisors?

Myself I have turned away completely from the investment proposals of Barclays / Vanguards / .... of the world. For a mutual fund or an ETF based on indexes or even gold I can easily invest myself in a way that is much more transparent. With parameters which also reflects much more my way of thinking (socio-cultural).

And I have seen the results of many funds with dips that would be difficult to recover from (yes, they always have perfect explanations). I guess if someone is not willing to invest a lot of time to diversify and wants to give it out of hands, it is convenient. Personal choice of course.
 

harryopal

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Some while ago I was tempted to buy into cryptocurrency. I found I had to use a VPN as many sites did not want to open accounts from Indonesia. And anyway the Indon government is now blocking sites dealing with cryptocurrency. But past that hurdle was the concern about finding a reliable dealer that would enable quick buying or selling in response to the market. It seemed I would no sooner find a promising site than I would find reviews from people claiming to have been ripped off. And of course there are endless stories about people investing and suddenly the company through whom they were trading has disappeared.

With Facebook and China now looking at getting into cryptocurrency I am curious as to how serious investors and contributors to this thread are regarding cryptocurrency for possible investment.
 

snpark

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I'm not. Anything virtual or online is a big warning sign for me
Stick to something tangible and existant
 

Ruserious

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Jstar I just posed the question to find out what people are investing in, but also as you say the mechanics of how people are doing this especially as using an Indonesian address. You sound like a knowledgeable and experienced investor. I presume you have a broker in the US and just use a US address?
 

FireEye

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I miss having good cash back cards. Here in Indonesia you can at best get 1%, or very low maximum amounts (like Rp 100,000/month).
As per 2019 there’s no more foreign transaction fee on american credit cards. I was happy swapping my CC in Japan and Indonesia last month. It was converted immediately to USD at more than IDR 14k rate.
 

FireEye

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Some while ago I was tempted to buy into cryptocurrency. I found I had to use a VPN as many sites did not want to open accounts from Indonesia. And anyway the Indon government is now blocking sites dealing with cryptocurrency. But past that hurdle was the concern about finding a reliable dealer that would enable quick buying or selling in response to the market. It seemed I would no sooner find a promising site than I would find reviews from people claiming to have been ripped off. And of course there are endless stories about people investing and suddenly the company through whom they were trading has disappeared.

With Facebook and China now looking at getting into cryptocurrency I am curious as to how serious investors and contributors to this thread are regarding cryptocurrency for possible investment.
My financial advisor is a person who wrote “Busting Financial Lies” book. I learned from her the diff between Financial Planning vs Prosperity Economics.

It’s a very eye opening knowledge that truly change my whole game of investing. I am sticking with her plan and avoiding anything at all cost that eliminate my ability to control the money. Eliminate the financial institution to control my money. The plan isn’t included online currency.
 

Nimbus

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My employer gives me a choice of 28 funds to invest my 401K in, mostly from Vanguard. Until recently I invested in the most aggressive small-cap stock funds. I was making good money until the market dropped at the end of 2018 / beginning of 2019, which wiped out 5 years of gains. I stayed put and basically regained all my losses. Now most of it is in an index fund, with 10% in a bond fund.

I have no confidence in the market and USA is overdue for another recession, so when the S&P climbs up about 2 more percent, I’ll convert everything into bonds. Theoretically I won’t be making as much as stock investments, but the stocks have been up and down in last several months they’re essentially flat. If I’m not gaining anything, I might as well put it in bonds.

As for the rainy day fund, I put it in an online savings account that gives back 1.9%. It’s not much, but it’s almost inflation-neutral, at the very least.

I watch market movements every day. Yahoo Finance and its charts are a big help.
 

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