How do you guys invest?

[snpark]

Because it was on driverless option

 

[snpark]

Like I said for a long term investor time to buy another load

 

[jstar]

Because it was on driverless option

They don’t know (yet). Also, it is in beta testing and it is clearly stated the driver should always pay attention (and not take a nap after partying and drinking all night).

Like I said for a long term investor time to buy another load

Not so sure if it will have an impact on the stock; people get a bit immune for these ‘big oil’ and Toyota sponsored anti EV articles. Look what’s going on with RAM and the fire hazard now which is a bit more serious; not a big dent in the Stellantis stock while the US trucks are a nice milk cow for them.

 

[Hawk256]

Not so sure if it will have an impact on the stock; people get a bit immune for these ‘big oil’ and Toyota sponsored anti EV articles. Look what’s going on with RAM and the fire hazard now which is a bit more serious; not a big dent in the Stellantis stock while the US trucks are a nice milk cow for them.

At least the Ram fires can be put out comparatively easy. Saw this the other day. Maybe it's a "big oil" sponsered article as well but it can't help stock prices on anything that has a Li-ion battery pack. Appears to be a legitimate concern and needs to be addressed for public safety.

Fires sparked by lithium batteries are confounding firefighters

With the number of fires caused by lithium batteries soaring across the U.S., firefighters say the training needed to fight them effectively is lagging in many places.

www.yahoo.com

 

[make_batik_great_again]

In the US it will not have an impact today since the market is closed there today. But European traders/investors can trade today and there Tesla‘s stock is not really moving. So, for now the news will not have an impact on the stock.

To me Tesla‘s stock is too speculative on this level. Some weeks ago I could understand if someone tries his luck. But after this recovery rallye it seems to me that some investors/speculative people are getting a bit too optimistic again. One should not ignore the fact that some of the „classic“ automotive constructers reduced Tesla‘s advantage in some areas. And also some Chinese companies already offer some interesting EVs. BYD offers some nice EVs. Nio is also quite innovative with their battery change strategy. Xiaomi is planning to enter this market as well soon. And the Chinese government will probably create a good environment for those companies to grow, too.

All in all, to me it looks that the EV market is getting much more competitive, not easy for Tesla to protect or extend their market shares...but the market is expecting a lot on this level of value of the stock. For me, neither a stock to buy nor to open a short position on this level.

 

[Hawk256]

Xiaomi is planning to enter this market as well soon.

First I have heard of that (but I don't really keep up with it). If their past successes in other areas are any indicator, I would expect a very competitively priced, decent quality product from them. I'm not a big investor but it would seem that looking into a comapany in the supply chain would provide a good return. Qualcom comes to mind. It isn't the stock it used to be but was phenomenal for a long time and still solid until COVID. I remember when it was less than $1. Should have bought a few thousand shares.

 

[make_batik_great_again]

First I have heard of that (but I don't really keep up with it).

Recently, there are a lot of news about it again. So, it seems that it is just a question of time until Xiaomi enters this market:

Xiaomi to Obtain Electric Vehicle Manufacturing License

Chinese consumer electronics maker Xiaomi is close to obtaining approval for producing electric vehicles (EVs). Actually, since 2017, the application process and criteria for granting electric vehicle manufacturing licenses in China have tightened.

pandaily.com

Xiaomi Auto Strives to Rank in Top Five Worldwide - Pandaily

Lei Jun, the founder of Chinese consumer electronics maker Xiaomi, said on the company's most recent Investor Day that a quarter of his time was spent on mobile phones, IoT, and high-end involvement, half on cars and a quarter on other things.

pandaily.com

Xiaomi Shares Rise After EV Plans Leak

In recent days, leaked photos of car moldings related to Xiaomi's electric-vehicle plans have been circulated by users of Chinese social-media website Weibo.

www.marketwatch.com

 

[pantaiema]

Recently, there are a lot of news about it again. So, it seems that it is just a question of time until Xiaomi enters this market:

Xiaomi to Obtain Electric Vehicle Manufacturing License

Chinese consumer electronics maker Xiaomi is close to obtaining approval for producing electric vehicles (EVs). Actually, since 2017, the application process and criteria for granting electric vehicle manufacturing licenses in China have tightened.

pandaily.com

Xiaomi Auto Strives to Rank in Top Five Worldwide - Pandaily

Lei Jun, the founder of Chinese consumer electronics maker Xiaomi, said on the company's most recent Investor Day that a quarter of his time was spent on mobile phones, IoT, and high-end involvement, half on cars and a quarter on other things.

pandaily.com

Xiaomi Shares Rise After EV Plans Leak

In recent days, leaked photos of car moldings related to Xiaomi's electric-vehicle plans have been circulated by users of Chinese social-media website Weibo.

www.marketwatch.com

I am not quite sure whether Xiaomi could compete in EVs. There are already major EV players in China such as BYD, NIO, LI Auto, XPeng. All of them have manufactured vehicles.

Manufacturing EVs are entirely different with Mobile Phones, or Electric Scooters. It is very capital extensive. They might be collaborating with the existing one and focusing on what they are good at such as signalling and monitoring. Autonomous Driving, Lidar, etc.

 

[Jaime C]

I’ve got thousands of shares of mostly EV companies in my daughters account. Nio, Li, Xpeng, Lucid, Rivian and Ford. I do have some Tesla owned indirectly in ETFs. I actually had a buy order in for Tesla during their big dip, but but didn’t quite go that low.

Tesla is definitely the one to beat, but Musk perhaps isn’t the best spokesman.

Self driving will be problematic, but that’s to be expected with such an advance in technology. I think showing accident stats, without showing how many have sold, and how much they’re driven isn’t logical.

If a model sells a million models a year, that are driven 10 billion miles per year, and there are 1000 reported deaths a year, is widely different for a model that sells 1000 cars, driven 5,000,000 miles a year, and suffers 50 deaths a year.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Self-driving in Jakarta would be hilarious

 

[jstar]

Self-driving in Jakarta would be hilarious

Yes, until everybody would have it.

 

[jstar]

Manufacturing EVs are entirely different with Mobile Phones, or Electric Scooters. It is very capital extensive.

That’s why companies as Apple and Sony are (or will be) collaborating with others that have experience with the production and logistics processes and who have an infrastructure in place. Xiaomi and Foxconn are doing the same btw.

Now, without a rather complicated gasoline engine, I’m not convinced whether the concept and build of an EV is so complicated. The battery (and electric motor) part is all sourced from others (Panasonic, LG, …). Not for nothing the new Chinese brands are popping up like mushrooms.

 

[Ruserious]

Yes, until everybody would have it.

Even then it would only work if there were no motorcycles. Its bad enough with the proximity censors.....constantly beeping from motorcycles.

 

[jstar]

Taking about the Chinese…

such as BYD, NIO, LI Auto, XPeng

….there are some major differences with the Japanese and Korean brands in the past. Yes people chuckled a bit when they were new in the market, but at least they were cheap. The current newly introduced Chinese brands are -compared to the existing ones- not cheap at all. MG is a bit of a exception, in Europe at least.

But more importantly; ‘buying Chinese’ is seen as supporting a dictatorial and suppressing regime which could also destroy our own economy. I will just ignore the fact now that practically nothing is home made anymore and that all electronic equipment and tools that we use have at least components made in China or even more (KitchenAid, Philips, Samsung, …..). Support for Russia can even make that sentiment stronger. Let’s see if in the end people will choose for their wallet or their principles.

Now, of course China is the largest market for cars. And there BYD, SAIC, Geely* and Nio** are obviously huge, even if they are not that successful in other parts of the world (yet). And if they can’t make it as ‘Chinese’ brand, they position themselves as European (Geely).

I do think Volvo is a very interesting stock for investing. And talking automobile industry in general; VW is currently almost cheap.


* the mother company of Volvo, Polestar, Lynk and Zeekr
** has an interesting model with battery swapping

 

[make_batik_great_again]

VW is currently almost cheap.

Yes, I agree with you on that. One of the companies that I meant in my last post. With Tesla, the market already priced that Tesla is going to grow and to gain market shares the next 40 years...with VW and some other companies, the market priced in that they already lost the fight and will never be able to even reduce the gap of technology in the EV sector. To me, the opportunity-risk-relation is much better with VW. Also Daimler is quite attractive...I can imagine that they will be able to find their long-term place in the EV market and gather market shares with their strong brands like Mercedes.

I think what some investors ignore at the moment is the good infrastructure that these classic automotive companies already have. Look at VW for example...how many selling units, partner locations or repair stations they have in many, many countries. Can be an advantage (mid- to long-term) not to have to develop this now. Yeah, they missed focussing on the EV market for a long time, but to me it seems that they already understood that this will be the future market in many countries and they seem to be able to make progress in this (for them) new market quite alright.

 

[make_batik_great_again]

Other topic: Anyone of you guys still having a deposito at a BPR bank? How much interest do those kind of banks offer in your region at the moment?

 

[make_batik_great_again]

To me, the taxation of stocks (and especially ETF distributions) is still not clear enough. Can anyone of you recommend a tax consultant in Indonesia? Maybe a tax consultant who is already experienced in the field of the omnibus law by which some types of overseas income can be taxfree if reinvested in Indonesia?

 

[pantaiema]

Self-driving in Jakarta would be hilarious

Well that is the ultimate on the road real test for Autonomous Driving, and associated cameras, radar, ultrasonic, and LiDAR sensors.

 

[Hawk256]

Well that is the ultimate on the road real test for Autonomous Driving, and associated cameras, radar, ultrasonic, and LiDAR sensors.

It's bad enough that the crash avoidance system goes crazy on a lot of cars in Jakarta traffic. I imagine self driving would never move.

 

[pantaiema]

It's bad enough that the crash avoidance system goes crazy on a lot of cars in Jakarta traffic. I imagine self driving would never move.

There was a Joke circulating in the social media. The well renown AI Robot developed and sold in developed worlds, they help human to do house-chore / planning, to be used in the combat zone, etc. But if you want a real test locate them in Tanah Abang Market, in Jakarta those magnificent robots will disappear in the following day.

In Indonesia, there are still people who believe in the forex, Stock, crypto, future commodity trading Robots that could make money 10% per week in Indonesia where even the legendary traders such as Jim Simmons could only make around 70% per years.

The last known man standing of ponzi Pyramid scheme in tradings, the founders of Auto Trade Gold ATG Gold was arrested a few days ago. Other robots, Binary trading with the same motive Ponzi Pyramid were arrested much earlier a while ago. The role of those individuals politicians, law enforcers backing them up ? Who knows.

There are a lof of news in Indonesian newspaper recently. This is the one similar news available in English

AutoTrade Gold founder Wahyu Kenzo arrested in Indonesia

behindmlm.com