Here we go again: Indonesian parliament considers alcohol ban.

Ok, I will take your "challenge".
Every time things like these happen, there will be a small victory for the Noble ones.

I.e. from last "ban alcohol campaign", Jakarta and surroundings banned sales of alcohol in retail stores. There was no law, bit restrictions tightened.

In the meantime, Law on the Elimination of Sexual Violence (RUU PKS), does not have a chance to pass in the Parliament nor will pass as it weakens the role of man in the traditional family, where he has right to beat his wife, under certain conditions.

Grand Imam's posters are just reminders that "we are watching you". It is good marketing, from the political marketing point of view btw.

I understand that this could be not enough strong arguments for you as you are living in a different environment. But if you say to your friends that you are from a country where gays, non-married couples, gamblers are flogged/whipped, blasphemy laws regularly enforced, they would tell you that you are lucky not living anymore in a country like that. Maybe you could be the winner of the Oppression Olympics in the US?

Your thesis is all about Saudi conspiracy taking over Indonesia. So far the only link you have between the Saudis and the Miras law is a bunch of billboards welcoming the “grand imam”.

I do see that Indonesia is becoming more conservative in the past couple of decades, but it’s not the same as buying into an overblown conspiracy theory. It is actually dangerous to put all the blame on the Saudis, because you’re ignoring the actual sentiment of the Indonesian public and the issues that shape it.
 
@Helpful Herbert
Just to remind you that Ahok's blasphemy is a proven fact by the Indonesian judiciary system. Anybody who claims differently, risks penalties from the same Indonesian judiciary system.

I do not think Grand Imam has ambitions to be elected, as he only recognizes God. Once in power, he cannot be removed. And his influence is not just in his core base, but how many moderates he can swing to "conservatives". And these "conservatives" are by no mean same as conservatives in the US or Europe.

The word “Grand Imam” has as much meaning in Indonesia as “Grand Poobah”. It confers no authority, especially when self-declared.

Seeing you put such an emphasis on it is bizarre.
 
@Helpful Herbert
Just to remind you that Ahok's blasphemy is a proven fact by the Indonesian judiciary system. Anybody who claims differently, risks penalties from the same Indonesian judiciary system.

I do not think Grand Imam has ambitions to be elected, as he only recognizes God. Once in power, he cannot be removed. And his influence is not just in his core base, but how many moderates he can swing to "conservatives". And these "conservatives" are by no mean same as conservatives in the US or Europe.
The magic stone at JIS is also a fact proved by the Indonesian legal system.

If someone can claim a mandate from God, and get enough people to believe him, why indeed would he bother with election mandates, where he risks losing. Maybe that's where Trump went wrong.
 
The word “Grand Imam” has as much meaning in Indonesia as “Grand Poobah”. It confers no authority, especially when self-declared.

Seeing you put such an emphasis on it is bizarre.
Well if I am in the US, I could call the Pope a Satan's child, Trump racist POS, Biden a perverted corrupt politician and sexual harasser. As I am in Indonesia, I call the mentioned person Grand Imam, as it is suggested on the billboard. If I called him as you do, insulting and mocking, but not from a proper distance of 15.000 km, I could get encountered with his White Love and Peace Brigades and risk a struggle session, harassment or expulsion. That is where you are in cognitive inconsistency.

I actually plan to call the Grand Imam the Noble Grand Imam in the future. Then he will understand that we truly respect him. Especially as he is Arab, Sayyid-genuine descendant from the Prophet's family, and educated scholar-actually doctor of sc/ph whatever, and has a serious organisation.

It is not a KSA conspiracy and plotting but is for sure KSA influence in the battle of ideas, where that ideology is slowly marching and winning.
 
My goal is, however, to acknowledge that innocent people are unduly harmed by the consumption of alcohol even if they don't drink. It's to get a public awareness, a level of societal education, to eschew alcohol.
I will await your condemnation on car, truck, and motorcycle drivers who take lives and injure a lot more innocent people than alcohol beverages.

Facts are, bootleg alcohol takes more lives than any licenced commercial products. If there is going to be any legal moves, it should be going after the bootleg producers.
 
Well if I am in the US, I could call the Pope a Satan's child, Trump racist POS, Biden a perverted corrupt politician and sexual harasser. As I am in Indonesia, I call the mentioned person Grand Imam, as it is suggested on the billboard. If I called him as you do, insulting and mocking, but not from a proper distance of 15.000 km, I could get encountered with his White Love and Peace Brigades and risk a struggle session, harassment or expulsion. That is where you are in cognitive inconsistency.

I actually plan to call the Grand Imam the Noble Grand Imam in the future. Then he will understand that we truly respect him. Especially as he is Arab, Sayyid-genuine descendant from the Prophet's family, and educated scholar-actually doctor of sc/ph whatever, and has a serious organisation.

It is not a KSA conspiracy and plotting but is for sure KSA influence in the battle of ideas, where that ideology is slowly marching and winning.
You’re getting weirder and weirder. Where do you get the idea that referring to him as anything other than “imam besar” is an insult? All that stuff you mentioned about lifetime appointment is also strange. Are you reading material on Iran assuming it applies to Indonesia?

If I refer to Imam Besar Masjid Istiqlal (official title) as simply Pak Nasaruddin Umar, then I’m insulting him?
 
You’re getting weirder and weirder. Where do you get the idea that referring to him as anything other than “imam besar” is an insult? All that stuff you mentioned about lifetime appointment is also strange. Are you reading material on Iran assuming it applies to Indonesia?

If I refer to Imam Besar Masjid Istiqlal (official title) as simply Pak Nasaruddin Umar, then I’m insulting him?
You refer to the Noble Grand Imam as a "Grand Poobah". I will be on the safe side and call him as I do.

They have hijacked your religion and you should be more worried, less than I do. And get some sense of humour as well.
 
You refer to the Noble Grand Imam as a "Grand Poobah". I will be on the safe side and call him as I do.

They have hijacked your religion and you should be more worried, less than I do. And get some sense of humour as well.
I’m not referring to him as a grand poobah, I said that grand imam is basically an empty term in Indonesia, just like grand poobah. The title may have significance in other countries, but not here.

I’m usually laid back, except when somebody who knows little about the subject claims expertise then makes bold statements, just like Trump.
 
While on my way home today, I noticed two banners welcoming home the hero.
Yeah, as long as they pay cash for the spanduk, they can put anything on it. At this rate they might as well proclaim that he’s a malaikat.
 
The three largest parties in DPR have refused to advance the Anti-Alcohol bill, saying that there is no pressing need for it. Oh well, there is always next time.

 
Hangut-hangut tahi ayam.
Hangat hangat tahi ayam means they’re all passionate in the beginning but have no energy to follow through. I think even the PPP is not passionate about it, they just want to show people that they’re the most Islamic of all the Islamic parties, and hopefully pick up a couple more seats in the next pemilu. In American parlance it’s called ‘posturing’, to propose an idea for the sole purpose of demonstrating one’s position, with no hope of success.

PDI-P, Golkar, and Gerindra have no intention to ever bring the bill up, but they can’t simply say they oppose it. Instead they push back by saying there are other pressing matters more deserving of their effort. Supporting the freedom to imbibe is not a politically correct position in Indonesia.
 
While on my way home today, I noticed two banners welcoming home the hero.
They've been up for a couple of years near our place. It would be interesting to know where his funding comes from for all the advertising, plus paying fines for lockdown breaches (although we can easily guess - I guess the last 3 years have been a kind of fundraising exercise for what is coming next).
 

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