EV in Indonesia

[Hawk256]

Hawk256 "...So far every problem that has resulted in irradiation were due to non safe operation (bypassing safety checks) or by a unsafe design and building process of the facility. Every single one COULD have been easily prevented."

What concerns many of us is that given the human propensity for taking short cuts and making mistakes, when it comes to a mistake with a nuclear power plant the results can be truly catastrophic as has now been shown with Chernobyl and Fukushima. The Three Mile Island meltdown in 1979 and the Enrico Fermi partial meltdown in 1966 were on the edge of becoming major disasters. Meanwhile in Australia the CSIRO has shown that starting to build nuclear power plants in Australia would probably be double what is suggested by proponents for nuclear power .

I get what you are saying but you are judging a whole industry on a few of the mistakes that shouldn't have happened. Samsung make a batch of exploding phone batteries but we havn't run away from them just becuase they can be dangerous. We have never applied the same amout of fear to any of the industiral accidents involving checmicals that happen rather often. The point is that if things are done right, it is extremely safe and has a minisucle amout of radioactive waste. There are no free rides and everything will carry a certian amout of risk. Does that mean we just abandon everything? Nothing close to meeting our future needs expect nuclear power that exists now.

 

[harryopal1]

I get what you are saying but you are judging a whole industry on a few of the mistakes that shouldn't have happened. Samsung make a batch of exploding phone batteries but we havn't run away from them just becuase they can be dangerous. We have never applied the same amout of fear to any of the industiral accidents involving checmicals that happen rather often. The point is that if things are done right, it is extremely safe and has a minisucle amout of radioactive waste. There are no free rides and everything will carry a certian amout of risk. Does that mean we just abandon everything? Nothing close to meeting our future needs expect nuclear power that exists now.

There is quite a difference between an exploding phone battery and a nuclear power plant explosion. Personally I don't share your confidence in the ability of nuclear scientists to manage without mishaps.
https://www.google.com/imgres?q=car...d=2ahUKEwifq5GBgqSKAxXHRmcHHRs1HcQQM3oECH0QAA
The Australian Liberal / Conservative coalition seeking election have just today given an estimate for 7 nuclear power plants at a cost of $331 billion. They reckon to have the first on line by 2036. The CSIRO considers that unrealisticaly optimistic. It wil be interesting to see how all this works out at the next Federal election due mid 2025.

 

[Shadrach]

There is quite a difference between an exploding phone battery and a nuclear power plant explosion. Personally I don't share your confidence in the ability of nuclear scientists to manage without mishaps.
https://www.google.com/imgres?q=cartoon comparing exploding phone batteries and nuclear power plant explosions&imgurl=https://imgcdn.stablediffusionweb.com/2024/4/24/6ea54c9b-9a66-40e7-bc81-eed744199956.jpg&imgrefurl=https://stablediffusionweb.com/image/6030826-nuclear-power-plant-explosion&docid=DoK6Did4VNPGJM&tbnid=tutxO8Y_rJCsfM&vet=12ahUKEwifq5GBgqSKAxXHRmcHHRs1HcQQM3oECH0QAA..i&w=1024&h=1024&hcb=2&ved=2ahUKEwifq5GBgqSKAxXHRmcHHRs1HcQQM3oECH0QAA
The Australian Liberal / Conservative coalition seeking election have just today given an estimate for 7 nuclear power plants at a cost of $331 billion. They reckon to have the first on line by 2036. The CSIRO considers that unrealisticaly optimistic. It wil be interesting to see how all this works out at the next Federal election due mid 2025.

I agree about your hesitation to trust scientists ability to prevent mishaps! People must understand, the fallout doesn't just affect a local area around a power plant. The radioactive isotopes are carried in the wind in the upper atmosphere around the globe! Even a minuscule amount of this material is deadly, and can even alter peoples chromosomes, and DNA!
This can lead to mutations in people's offsprings. No Thanks!

As you mentioned before. Doesn't Australia have a huge housing crisis now? With $331 billion dollars, you could build a house for every homeless person on the planet!

 

[Hawk256]

I agree about your hesitation to trust scientists ability to prevent mishaps! People must understand, the fallout doesn't just affect a local area around a power plant. The radioactive isotopes are carried in the wind in the upper atmosphere around the globe! Even a minuscule amount of this material is deadly, and can even alter peoples chromosomes, and DNA!
This can lead to mutations in people's offsprings. No Thanks!

As you mentioned before. Doesn't Australia have a huge housing crisis now? With $331 billion dollars, you could build a house for every homeless person on the planet!

Here is an intersting read about the dogs around Chernobyl and it's not doom and gloom for a majority of the wildlife there. They are much larger in numbers than they were when humans were there. Is is possible the we don't know as much as we think we do about irradiation?

The Dogs of Chernobyl Are Experiencing Rapid Evolution, Study Suggests

Have the canines acquired strange mutations living near the power plant?

www.popularmechanics.com

 

[harryopal1]

Here is an intersting read about the dogs around Chernobyl and it's not doom and gloom for a majority of the wildlife there. They are much larger in numbers than they were when humans were there. Is is possible the we don't know as much as we think we do about irradiation?

The Dogs of Chernobyl Are Experiencing Rapid Evolution, Study Suggests

Have the canines acquired strange mutations living near the power plant?

www.popularmechanics.com

When America was developing the first atomic bomb Major Groves, in charge of the Manhattan project, told some anxious people that radiation was good for you

 

[Hawk256]

When America was developing the first atomic bomb Major Groves, in charge of the Manhattan project, told some anxious people that radiation was good for you

To cancer paitents it very much is. Maybe there is a sweet spot for irradiation. Certain amounts at certian times may cause a net positive with our bodies and/or spur rapid evolution to counter the effects. We know too much, too fast is dangerous but we are just learning about long term, low dosage. Wildlife in Chernobyl seems to be doing better than ever so it's possible we have been looking at it wrong.

 

[fastpitch17]

When America was developing the first atomic bomb Major Groves, in charge of the Manhattan project, told some anxious people that radiation was good for you

Evidently many agree that it is. They get it through X-rays and for just warming food. The thing about radiation is how it is managed and the type of radiation.

 

[Shadrach]

Evidently many agree that it is. They get it through X-rays and for just warming food. The thing about radiation is how it is managed and the type of radiation.

I believe you are trying to candy coat the effects from Radiation. The report on the Chernobyl dogs didn't say anything except more studies need to be done. Yes, radiation treatment has helped some, but also many more died from that and chemotherapy. And for Major Groves, saying that was purely naive.
If someone has to have an x-ray, a good idea after the treatment, is to drink Miso soup. It was proven that the Doctors, treating the radiation victims of Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, ate seaweed and Miso soup while treating the victims, and remained healthy during this period.

 

[John indonesia]

I think I saw something about Indonesia phasing out coal and oil fired power stations and building solar to replace them.
Add EVs over ICE, and you have a far reduced reliance on the international oil trade, and cleaner air as a bonus.
The downside to this post is it is based on an article I only half read, thus may be inaccurate.

 

[Wisnu]

I think I saw something about Indonesia phasing out coal and oil fired power stations and building solar to replace them.
Add EVs over ICE, and you have a far reduced reliance on the international oil trade, and cleaner air as a bonus.
The downside to this post is it is based on an article I only half read, thus may be inaccurate.

Indeed, seem "better strategy" is ongoing to build the first nuclear plant in Indonesia, according several source will be on grid on the next president era.
my thesis 36 years ago regarding the levelized generating costs for the first nuclear power plants in Indonesia, supervised directly by the deputy director of National Atomic Agency (who later a bit disappointed with my decision to run away from Nuclear Industry) , he helped me to get the construction costs for a 600 MW PWR from Bechtel Inc.
The one will be constructing is using different technology though, technically more advance and lower cost that I studied decades ago.
Nuclear energy and technology is actually not something new in Indonesia. I spent lot of time in the second nuclear reactor, Triga Mark II inaugurated in 1979.

my 2 cents for energy is: 1. energy diversification and 2. Energy transition.
nothing perfect though,

 

[Wisnu]

Some examples of cost blow outs on major projects.
Sydney Light Rail: Originally estimated at A$1.6 billion in 2012, the final cost ballooned to over A$2.1 billion.
Melbourne Metro Rail Project: Initially budgeted at A$11 billion in 2014, it now faces an estimated cost of over A$30 billion.
Perth City Link: The initial budget was A$1.9 billion in 2009, but the project is now expected to cost over A$2.7 billion.
East West Link (Melbourne): While ultimately cancelled, the estimated cost of this project soared from A$6.8 billion to A$14.5 billion.

I'll be more interesting to know if any major projects was completed on (original) budget.
i was part of team that constructed the most expensive energy project in this planet at that time. yup, the cost blown-up hundreds %.

 

[Wisnu]

I agree about your hesitation to trust scientists ability to prevent mishaps! People must understand, the fallout doesn't just affect a local area around a power plant. The radioactive isotopes are carried in the wind in the upper atmosphere around the globe! Even a minuscule amount of this material is deadly, and can even alter peoples chromosomes, and DNA!
This can lead to mutations in people's offsprings. No Thanks!

As you mentioned before. Doesn't Australia have a huge housing crisis now? With $331 billion dollars, you could build a house for every homeless person on the planet!

probably everyday you enjoy to swallow minuscules 0.1 - 0.5 μSv of radioactive isotopes to your belly; if accumulated could be more than the radiation leakage for a nuclear power plant in a year, then add other radiation source you receive daily including natural background. do I expect to see mutant ninja turtle in Ubud?

 

[Shadrach]

Indeed, seem "better strategy" is ongoing to build the first nuclear plant in Indonesia, according several source will be on grid on the next president era.
my thesis 36 years ago regarding the levelized generating costs for the first nuclear power plants in Indonesia, supervised directly by the deputy director of National Atomic Agency (who later a bit disappointed with my decision to run away from Nuclear Industry) , he helped me to get the construction costs for a 600 MW PWR from Bechtel Inc.
The one will be constructing is using different technology though, technically more advance and lower cost that I studied decades ago.
Nuclear energy and technology is actually not something new in Indonesia. I spent lot of time in the second nuclear reactor, Triga Mark II inaugurated in 1979.

my 2 cents for energy is: 1. energy diversification and 2. Energy transition.
nothing perfect though,

Yikes! Sounds scary to me, to build Nuclear plants in Indonesia. It's the most earthquake prone nation in the world, due to volcanic activity!

 

[harryopal1]

I know two people who went to Peter MacCallum Cancer Centre in Melbourne for radiation treatment for smoking related throat cancer. Both died within days. I am sure there is evidence that thousands have benefited from such treatments. Radiation with x rays is an established and important part of the health industry and regarded as having minimal negative possibilities while it is acknowledged that repeated x rays can be damaging. As George Bernard Shaw once remarked, doctors bury their mistakes.

I am afraid I was too much influenced by Shaw to have blind faith in doctors and medical science. A couple of Shaw's other quotes:

"Do not try to live for ever. You will not succeed."

". Use your health, even to the point of wearing it out. That is what it is for. Spend all you have before you die; and do not outlive yourself.."

We have strayed a bit from the original topic of EVs.

 

[Wisnu]

Yikes! Sounds scary to me, to build Nuclear plants in Indonesia. It's the most earthquake prone nation in the world, due to volcanic activity!

if somebody investing billion USD, they dont simply build it anywhere.
The major portion of the cost for nuclear plant - and other energy plant - is for safety protection and prevention.

Believe me, sleeping in the nuclear power plant is safer than crossing street in Jakarta or even Bali.

do you realize the hazards around you? chemicals, electrical and fires. is there fire extinguisher and fire blanket in your kitchen?

 

[harryopal1]

if somebody investing billion USD, they dont simply build it anywhere.
The major portion of the cost for nuclear plant - and other energy plant - is for safety protection and prevention.

Believe me, sleeping in the nuclear power plant is safer than crossing street in Jakarta or even Bali.

do you realize the hazards around you? chemicals, electrical and fires. is there fire extinguisher and fire blanket in your kitchen?

In the 70s Westinghouse spent a lot of money (bribes) to get a nuclear power station built in the Philippines not withstanding that this is in the rim of fire as is Indonesia. Huge profits in the construction of these enormously expensive plants. Any problems which might occur down the track are irrelevant.. And yes, "..sleeping in the nuclear power plant is safer than crossing street in Jakarta or even Bali." Except the day something goes wrong and there is a leak.

 

[Hawk256]

And yes, "..sleeping in the nuclear power plant is safer than crossing street in Jakarta or even Bali." Except the day something goes wrong and there is a leak.

Kind of like flying in a plane? Safest from of transportation available but yet there are still accidents and large numbers of people die because of it. Should we not use it either?

 

[Shadrach]

if somebody investing billion USD, they dont simply build it anywhere.
The major portion of the cost for nuclear plant - and other energy plant - is for safety protection and prevention.

Believe me, sleeping in the nuclear power plant is safer than crossing street in Jakarta or even Bali.

do you realize the hazards around you? chemicals, electrical and fires. is there fire extinguisher and fire blanket in your kitchen?

You must be joking? Just because someone invest billions of dollars, doesn't mean that it's a smart move! The major portion of money spent is to create a diabolical energy source to make profit! They don't give a damn about safety of the people. But if you think it's safe, and fine, go sleep there.
There is no comparison, between Nuclear power plants, and household chemicals, and home electricity. Getting a fire extinguisher is a good idea!

 

[Shadrach]

Kind of like flying in a plane? Safest from of transportation available but yet there are still accidents and large numbers of people die because of it. Should we not use it either?

A Nuclear meltdown is in no way, compared to an airplane crash!

 

[fastpitch17]

A Nuclear meltdown is in no way, compared to an airplane crash!

Curious. Do you spend your life hiding under your bed or in some type of closet just in case the sky falls? Sure seems like it. Guess what, the day will come and you die. Why not get out from under the security blanket and just go live a little while you can.