EV in Indonesia

[Hawk256]

This sounds like another product being promoted, that is like putting the cart before the horse? Look at the situation with the plastic pollution problem! Plastic, being thrown everywhere, and nowhere to recycle it, thus destroying Bali!
If they produce all these EV's, then they should set up a sufficient amount of charging station's! I do think using Electricity to power vehicles is a great, much needed idea, to stop using so much petroleum, but I've heard that to produce the batteries, is a problem with having to use rare Earth metals, thus making them overly expensive. Also these rare metals are found in only a few countries around the world, thus creating a potential problem with having these countries controlling the production and cost without control!
Also having to use petroleum to create the electricity to charge them. So it seems until these problems are corrected, it defeat the good of using EV's.

The "carbon footprint" for an EV starts off higher than a ICE because of the mining process for the rare earth metals and manufacting of the battery. Test after test is showing that by the time the EV catches back up to the ICE on it's carbon footprint, it is almost time for a new battery so you get to go back in the hole again. Spent years as a communications engineer and have a very strong back ground in elecrical supplies and batteries. I will be one of the first to say that EV's are not the current answer. Many will disagree but such is the world now.

 

[John indonesia]

In my opinion:

EVs are not good value for money at this point. They are fine for city driving if you are short range only, but pretty much useless for much more.
A new Wuling that is about the same as an Ayla is four times the price.
It is true that minimal servicing and far cheaper fuel will recover a lot of that money over time, but 300 million is a lot to get back.
Add the fact I'm unsure of the safety issues, and I wouldn't buy one.

That's today - My opinion might well change as the technology improves.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

The BYD M6 could be the big game changer. It is basically similar to a Kijang Innova (Indonesia's no.1 car), the price is about the same (379jt), and of course there are big savings on fuel and tax, plus it has much better functionality, entertainment system, cameras etc. I'm seriously thinking of getting one. I think it only came out a month or 2 ago.
Does anyone have any experience with one?

Edit: I compared the dimensions and it is slightly smaller than a 2017 Kijang Innova (particularly the height which is 10cm smaller), however it is much bigger in each dimension than the Avanza. So I guess it is more or less a Kijang Innova-class EV.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Interesting that in a direct comparison, pretty much everyone in the comments prefers the BYD

 

[Hawk256]

Can't speak about BYD or any of the other brands of EV's from personal expereice other than the bottom of the line Wuling. Neice bought a new one for 180 million or so and it rides like a go cart. The supension and steering are already creaking and the motor whines louder than a V8 with short pipes. Not impressed in the least.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

There are good and bad ICE cars, so I guess there are good and bad EVs too. Wuling seems to be the worst, not sure where BYD is compared to others.

 

[Pak Tani]

The BYD M6 could be the big game changer. It is basically similar to a Kijang Innova (Indonesia's no.1 car),

Except...it is not a Toyota. 20, 30 even 40 years old Toyotae can be seen driving around everywhere you go in Indonesia. My gut tells me that a BYD will be a liablity after 6 years and probably scrap before 10 years are over. But feel free to prove me wrong.

Can't speak about BYD or any of the other brands of EV's from personal expereice other than the bottom of the line Wuling. Neice bought a new one for 180 million or so and it rides like a go cart. The supension and steering are already creaking and the motor whines louder than a V8 with short pipes. Not impressed in the least.

A new Wuling Confero is 207jt now. Plenty of 2021 and 2022 models that are for sale now in 2024 for less than half that price!

 

[Balifrog]

There are good and bad ICE cars, so I guess there are good and bad EVs too. Wuling seems to be the worst, not sure where BYD is compared to others.

BYD Dolphin has plenty good reviews on Y.T.
There are plenty also on the Seagull, Seal and other models.
They are the 2nd biggest E.V. manufacturer in the world. Add busses and ICE vehicles to that.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Except...it is not a Toyota. 20, 30 even 40 years old Toyotae can be seen driving around everywhere you go in Indonesia. My gut tells me that a BYD will be a liablity after 6 years and probably scrap before 10 years are over. But feel free to prove me wrong.

Yes this is definitely a possibility. On the other hand you save so much money on electricity Vs bensin (75% cheaper), tax (90% cheaper) and service (50% cheaper), that even if the value goes down very fast you might still be better off with the electric one.

Also in 10 years, the ICE car industry will barely exist. It is collapsing fast. China now sells more EVs than ICE cars. The EU will cease to produce ICE cars by then. The vast majority of cars in Jakarta will probably be electric by that point. So that will probably change the calculations regarding residual values.

 

[Balifrog]

Also in 10 years, the ICE car industry will barely exist. It is collapsing fast. China now sells more EVs than ICE cars. The EU will cease to produce ICE cars by then. The vast majority of cars in Jakarta will probably be electric by that point. So that will probably change the calculations regarding residual values.

Mmmm, looking through pink tainted glasses IMO !
Sales of EV in Europe are down, Trump may reduce the advantages given to EV (and solar)
Already several OEM who switched full speed to EV's are in deep trouble, V.W and Ford being 2 examples.
PHEV's (hybrids) are being preferred to BEV
And several other reasons like pricing and China controlling rare earths and battery manufacturing.
And wait till all the promotions and advantages given to EV's disapear and are replaced by taxes. Because the state (anywhere) is not going to forfait all the money it made through vehicle taxes, road taxes and taxes on petrol.... They'll invent new ones. On E.V.'s !

 

[Shadrach]

Mmmm, looking through pink tainted glasses IMO !
Sales of EV in Europe are down, Trump may reduce the advantages given to EV (and solar)
Already several OEM who switched full speed to EV's are in deep trouble, V.W and Ford being 2 examples.
PHEV's (hybrids) are being preferred to BEV
And several other reasons like pricing and China controlling rare earths and battery manufacturing.
And wait till all the promotions and advantages given to EV's disapear and are replaced by taxes. Because the state (anywhere) is not going to forfait all the money it made through vehicle taxes, road taxes and taxes on petrol.... They'll invent new ones. On E.V.'s !

Interesting, sure they will find a way to tax EV's, but petroleum is running out, so it's inevitable something else has to come.
I find it strange people are opposed to finding alternative's to ICE vehicles. Stopping pollution is a nice thing for the Planet, and every living thing on it.
Yes it's true China, and other countries, that have the Precious Earth metals have an advantage. Maybe they will out of the goodness of their hearts, open up and share these metals, for the greater good of all.

 

[centurion]

Can't speak about BYD or any of the other brands of EV's from personal expereice other than the bottom of the line Wuling. Neice bought a new one for 180 million or so and it rides like a go cart. The supension and steering are already creaking and the motor whines louder than a V8 with short pipes. Not impressed in the least.

These cars are pretty heavy and there is a thing called maintenance-when suspension goes bad there are parts that have to be replaced.

 

[Balifrog]

petroleum is running out, so it's inevitable something else has to come.

Haha, I am hearing that since I was 18 and I am 71....
Plenty oil still being discovered every year !
Recently offshore Guyana and West Africa.

But yes, we're probably pumping it faster than nature can make it (for free..)

 

[Hawk256]

but petroleum is running out,

As Balifrog noted the estimate of 50 years left hasn't changed in 50 years because of new oil being found. If that stays static, we will never run out. Not likely but a possibility.

How much oil is left and will we ever run out?

We may never run out of oil, though known reserves are expected to last for about 50 years, current estimates suggest.

www.livescience.com

 

[Hawk256]

These cars are pretty heavy and there is a thing called maintenance-when suspension goes bad there are parts that have to be replaced.

This one is only a couple of months old and creaks like a wagon. If it's time for supension work already then they are in for a long future of repairs.

 

[centurion]

This one is only a couple of months old and creaks like a wagon. If it's time for supension work already then they are in for a long future of repairs.

But these cars have free maintenance for many years. What the service says?

 

[Shadrach]

Haha, I am hearing that since I was 18 and I am 71....
Plenty oil still being discovered every year !
Recently offshore Guyana and West Africa.

But yes, we're probably pumping it faster than nature can make it (for free..)

I heard that oil is millions of years old. I don't think we can wait for a new batch to be made. Also it's nasty, smelly, polluting stuff, that might be the lubricant for the tectonic plates underground. I think it's better, we leave it underground, and come up with a better source of energy above ground. How about using magnetism, it's free, or come up with a better, more efficient way, to use solar energy! Since everyone thinks Trump and Elon Musk, are so smart. Get them to come up with a new way?
Oh, I forgot, T-rumps says he wants to drill baby drill.
Elon?

 

[Wisnu]

Haha, I am hearing that since I was 18 and I am 71....
Plenty oil still being discovered every year !
Recently offshore Guyana and West Africa.

But yes, we're probably pumping it faster than nature can make it (for free..)

From the slope of Majestic mount Agung, I'm auditing million barrel oil equivalent cash register. I can smell and taste it from more than 12,000km away. fragrant and stinky smelly, sweet and bitter tastes at the same time.

I believe we'll still be producing oil and gas for hundreds years - at what level?, I dont know.

 

[Hawk256]

But these cars have free maintenance for many years. What the service says?

Not sure they have complained. Doesn't seem to bother them at this point. Maybe when something actually breaks they will take it in for service. I pointed it out to them but who knows how much weight anything I say has in their mind. I imagine the tires will wear out quickly with those loose front end steering and suspension components. Much like everything time will tell. 5-7 years down the road and see if it is still drivable.

 

[Balifrog]

But these cars have free maintenance for many years. What the service says?

Maybe only for certain components, motor, drive train...
Not sure suspension would be covered more than 1 year ?