Dress Code

[Dave70]

Years ago, female employee wants to wear hijab, management says 'okay, no problem'.

Now, she covers her face too (only her eyes is uncovered), what to do?

Can management fire her? The contract didn't include a clause on the dress code.

 

[snpark]

Building management don't allow it for security concerns? Full face must be visible for CCTV etc

 

[jstar]

The problem is that -unlike in Europe or so- the company can not use Indonesian laws prohibiting facial covers and religious symbols etc.

They’re non existent. It’s almost the opposite if you see what the Supreme Court stated about mandatory hijabs for school kids under 18.

 

[Dave70]

I remember years ago, hijab was not allowed on members of both police and military, what happens if hijab wearers suddenly cover their faces too?

 

[jstar]

In reality many do of course:

color matched to the hijab

 

[Balifrog]

I remember years ago, hijab was not allowed on members of both police and military, what happens if hijab wearers suddenly cover their faces too?

Move to another country ?

Or to Bali ?

 

[gemima]

Years ago, female employee wants to wear hijab, management says 'okay, no problem'.

Now, she covers her face too (only her eyes is uncovered), what to do?

Can management fire her? The contract didn't include a clause on the dress code.

whats the job? If one of my team wanted to do this I would have zero issues with it- they can still work..its not so different from when we were all masked up during covid.

 

[Dave70]

whats the job? If one of my team wanted to do this I would have zero issues with it- they can still work..its not so different from when we were all masked up during covid.

It doesn't matter what the job, when she joined the company, she's not even wearing hijab, then she wore hijab (no problem for the company), and now only her eyes are exposed. It was company's mistake not to include dress code in the contract / rules and regulations. Garuda Indonesia should have been a valuable lesson, several stewardesses fought up to the Supreme Court to wear hijab, eventually Garuda won because those flight crews were fully aware of Garuda's dress code and their contractual obligations from the time they were first hired.

 

[gemima]

It doesn't matter what the job, when she joined the company, she's not even wearing hijab, then she wore hijab (no problem for the company), and now only her eyes are exposed. It was company's mistake not to include dress code in the contract / rules and regulations. Garuda Indonesia should have been a valuable lesson, several stewardesses fought up to the Supreme Court to wear hijab, eventually Garuda won because those flight crews were fully aware of Garuda's dress code and their contractual obligations from the time they were first hired.

why is it a problem? if she can still do her job and there was no dress code in her employment contract I dont understand why you are whining on here about it. We live in a muslim majority country. People are allowed to change their preference for clothing/ hijab wearing.

 

[Dave70]

why is it a problem? if she can still do her job and there was no dress code in her employment contract I dont understand why you are whining on here about it. We live in a muslim majority country. People are allowed to change their preference for clothing/ hijab wearing.

Didn't you read the OP? I'm asking what to do in this case. I understand we are living in a Muslim majority country, that's why wearing hijab was not an issue. But covering her face (niqab)... don't you have better suggestions other than accepting her choice? For sure, we will now include a dress code in future contracts. But how can we if there are current employees wearing it? For example, new employees cannot cover their faces in whatever form or way but they see old employees wearing niqab. This is complicated...

 

[snpark]

Maybe you missed it - what is the regulation in the building like with security reception etc - you can't enter a bank with balaclava or helmet or full face mask even religious so why not sensitively tell her it's the building policy for the cctv, if you had a private office in a building you own etc it would be ok
Is she back of office or deal with customers directly. It's not about the religion but even trying to converse with someone with full facial covering is awkward

Why she suddenly become this way, actually it is very rare to see even the most devout Muslim with full facial covering. Did she recently marry?

It originated with the Bedouin in the desert to keep heat and sun from the face and protect the eyes, like 500 year old sunglasses. Made from leather?

It's called Batula I think ?

 

[Dave70]

Maybe you missed it - what is the regulation in the building like with security reception etc - you can't enter a bank with balaclava or helmet or full face mask even religious so why not sensitively tell her it's the building policy for the cctv, if you had a private office in a building you own etc it would be ok
Is she back of office or deal with customers directly. It's not about the religion but even trying to converse with someone with full facial covering is awkward

Why she suddenly become this way, actually it is very rare to see even the most devout Muslim with full facial covering. Did she recently marry?

It originated with the Bedouin in the desert to keep heat and sun from the face and protect the eyes, like 500 year old sunglasses. Made from leather?

It's called Batula I think ?

No, we are not working from an office building. We are in the manufacturing and we all work inside a factory building (with office under one roof).

 

[Bob]

No, we are not working from an office building. We are in the manufacturing and we all work inside a factory building (with office under one roof).

What's negative about her wearing it? Does it interfere with her doing her job?

 

[Dave70]

What's negative about her wearing it? Does it interfere with her doing her job?

Her co-workers are uncomfortable with her, affecting workplace morale which may lead to decline in the overall quality of work and efficiency.

You know, it creates tension and stress when one thinks of others as “not good enough Muslims” or worse as "infidels" (for non-Muslims).

 

[Hawk256]

Her co-workers are uncomfortable with her, affecting workplace morale which may lead to decline in the overall quality of work and efficiency.

You know, it creates tension and stress when one thinks of others as “not good enough Muslims” or worse as "infidels" (for non-Muslims).

Sounds like you are the one that is uncomfortable. I don't know any Muslims that are uncomfortable with someone veiling their face.

How do you know what she thinks? Has she said as much?

 

[El_Goretto]

What kind of work is she doing? How important is she to the business?

@gemima, I don't think we can use the covid masks as an argument, because technically we can ask anyone wearing a mask to remove it for identification purpose. A face veil is meant to be permanent, with some accomodation made in a separate room with a separate female staff to verify identity. That's a lot of accomodation for one employee.

Personally, if it's really an issue (safety, communication, other employees uncomfortable, etc), I would simply update the company regulations that bans this type of outfit (and explain the valid reasons why). Then she will have to comply or decide to work elsewhere. But for sure, you cannot currently fire her for it.