DON'T PANIC.... well, maybe a little bit.

[HappyMan]

Iam defeated here cause I can't actively give any answer of value myself. That doesn't mean that all is wrong, that means I and only I am not intelligent enough for this subject. So yeah, don't invlove me anymore.
It's up to you to get more Infos about this or not.

I am prepared and waiting for someone to tell me that what I am saying is wrong. I don't have a science background. I just want the thing that person says to either make more sense to me than the thing I already believe, or come with some source that I trust more than my own opinions. There are a lot of sources that I trust more than my own opinions, btw. I know I am pretty ignorant about a lot of stuff, but just good at appearing informed in front of the equally ignorant.

I've read quite a few of your posts here and I would disagree with your assertion that you are "not intelligent enough for..."

 

[dafluff]

Hong Kong has placed Indonesia in the A1 (highest) risk category. This means all flights from Indonesia to the city are suspended. It also bans entry for non-residents who have been in Indonesia in the last 21 days.

Government suspends all passengers flights from Indonesia effective from 25th June - Dimsum Daily

23rd June 2021 – (Hong Kong) The Government announced today the invocation of the place-specific flight suspension mechanism for Indonesia. From 0.00am on 25th June, all passenger flights from Indonesia will be prohibited from landing in Hong Kong. Indonesia will also at the same time be...

www.dimsumdaily.hk

 

[MamangDudul]

I am prepared and waiting for someone to tell me that what I am saying is wrong. I don't have a science background. I just want the thing that person says to either make more sense to me than the thing I already believe, or come with some source that I trust more than my own opinions. There are a lot of sources that I trust more than my own opinions, btw. I know I am pretty ignorant about a lot of stuff, but just good at appearing informed in front of the equally ignorant.

I've read quite a few of your posts here and I would disagree with your assertion that you are "not intelligent enough for..."

Yeah, I don't know. Maybe Iam too easily impressed. I can't get too technical here cause Iam not good at statistics or maths.(maybe also at logic sometimes)

So I only can conclude a few things here.
1. i really don't understand it
2. there is a misunderstanding about the text.

From my understading the text is only about comparing relative and absolute risk reduction. I don't see why we need to compare the different diseases and how they are transmitted. I mean I get it to some point, but I can't see how this is the most important thing concerning this text.

I think the flu and covid are at least a bit comparable and there seem to be many different views on how much we can compare them.

The text works with the numbers for the Covid Pfizer vaccine that they had to get an approval. So yeah..i still don't see how all of this is totally wrong. That's why I said iam probably not intelligent enough.

Ps: i don't say that All you say is wrong, but i still don't see how it is the point here. Iam not even angry..I openly admit it probably goes over my head

 

[Bad_azz]

Indonesian infected with covid, how it goes in reality(true story). Age 37, male, smoker.

-Last Thursday filing dizzy.
-Last Friday did the antigen test, negative( antigen can have false negatives, or be negative when symptoms already started). Feeling weak, went to the doctor. He got medicine against gastritis only, despite in the middle of a pandemic. No vitamines, no antibiotics, etc. Same night fever 38-39.
-Saturday, consulted the doctor again. Got antihistaminic(antiallergic medicine), panadol, and medicine aginst vomiting. Again, no antibiotics, vitamines, etc. Temperature goes to 42 but manages to go down to 38.
-Sunday, fever 38, decided to do a PCR. PCR of course positive. Gets by himself antibiotics, vitamin D, C, Zinc, etc.
-Monday stable but fever 38, Tuesday, evening breathing, trying to go to the hospital. Hospital refuses as they are full and his oxygen saturation is 95%, and not considered urgent. Recommended self-isolation, no additional advice besides that. Heavy breathing and still good saturation probably point to developing pneumonia.
-Wednesday heavy breathing during the night, fever 38. Oxygen saturation is still good(>94%), but weak, cannot walk.
-Thursday(today), expecting oxygen support to come during the day, for the next 3-5 days.

When I was sick last year, I was worse several days in than the first 3 days
I self medicated. I know I am prone to chest infections therefore I had some penicillin in the house ICE, I also have a Ventolin inhaler.
By about day 10 I was breathless & coughing my guts up all night- violently enough to make it feel like I was tearing my internal organs apart.
As there were only 2 of us in the house & hubby had already been ill prior to me being ill, I didn't go anywhere. I wanted to limit others' exposure to me, this was before there were any even semi -reliable tests available here. I certainly didn't want to go near any hospitals & potentially infect vulnerable people & essential workers.
By the time I felt that I had fluid in my lungs (previously the cough had been dry & hacking) I decided it would be pertinent to assume secondary bacterial infection in my lungs & went with the antibiotic course. A few days later my lungs were cleared up.
After the initial debilitating sickness I went through several months of weakness/dizziness/painful joints/lower than ever BP and lots of other seemingly unending symptoms now known as Long Covid.
NB: On a smoker, oximeter readings are possibly going to be inaccurate or inconsistent.
Oximeter readings on smokers

 

[Banana72]

To those who have been vaccinated...how easy was the procedure for you? (Sorry if I've asked this question before). My effort in getting vaccinated is back to square one again kinda...seems like every time there's a new 'updates' that delays me getting one....wife's friend who supposed to have a 'channel' said that they finally got the sinovac supply, but since it just arrived yesterday, it has to go some kind of 'sterilization' and additional testing...so those who registered last week (including me) will have to wait at least until July 28th to get vaccinated. Have a family member also who knows somebody at Royal Taruma....when she mentioned that a WNA would like to get vaccinated...she flat out was told they prefer not to do it as 'the bureaucracy is too complicated'. Now I'm just trying to get surat pak RT from where I live (house with wife), but my KTP is still using the old address (my parent's house) would this be a problem?

 

[dafluff]

To those who have been vaccinated...how easy was the procedure for you? (Sorry if I've asked this question before). My effort in getting vaccinated is back to square one again kinda...seems like every time there's a new 'updates' that delays me getting one....wife's friend who supposed to have a 'channel' said that they finally got the sinovac supply, but since it just arrived yesterday, it has to go some kind of 'sterilization' and additional testing...so those who registered last week (including me) will have to wait at least until July 28th to get vaccinated. Have a family member also who knows somebody at Royal Taruma....when she mentioned that a WNA would like to get vaccinated...she flat out was told they prefer not to do it as 'the bureaucracy is too complicated'. Now I'm just trying to get surat pak RT from where I live (house with wife), but my KTP is still using the old address (my parent's house) would this be a problem?

It's really hard to tell because the process is so different between the regions. FWIW, in Bali, they are offering vaccinations to all WNA, 18+, with NIK (KITAS/P), provided stocks are available. Most banjars have been very good in getting people to turn out on vaccination day, and they go door to door telling people it's their turn.

 

[centurion]

When I was sick last year, I was worse several days in than the first 3 days
I self medicated. I know I am prone to chest infections therefore I had some penicillin in the house ICE, I also have a Ventolin inhaler.
By about day 10 I was breathless & coughing my guts up all night- violently enough to make it feel like I was tearing my internal organs apart.
As there were only 2 of us in the house & hubby had already been ill prior to me being ill, I didn't go anywhere. I wanted to limit others' exposure to me, this was before there were any even semi -reliable tests available here. I certainly didn't want to go near any hospitals & potentially infect vulnerable people & essential workers.
By the time I felt that I had fluid in my lungs (previously the cough had been dry & hacking) I decided it would be pertinent to assume secondary bacterial infection in my lungs & went with the antibiotic course. A few days later my lungs were cleared up.
After the initial debilitating sickness I went through several months of weakness/dizziness/painful joints/lower than ever BP and lots of other seemingly unending symptoms now known as Long Covid.
NB: On a smoker, oximeter readings are possibly going to be inaccurate or inconsistent.
Oximeter readings on smokers

Did you do blood checks after the covid(d-dimer, CRP, vitamin D)? Good info for oxymeters on smokers.

 

[dafluff]

Did you do blood checks after the covid(d-dimer, CRP, vitamin D)? Good info for oxymeters on smokers.

These are good checks to perform if you have/had or suspect you had Covid. My friend who was in the hospital for Covid had d-dimer tested a few times even after discharge from the hospital.

Hospitals in Indonesia will only give standard doses of Vitamin D (something like 400IU/day). Personally, if I were diagnosed with Covid, I would up this to 5000IU/day. Currently, I am taking about 5000IU 2-3x/week, in addition to normal multivitamins/supplements.

 

[Balifrog]

I better pour myself another whisky before the plague hits me ?

 

[centurion]

These are good checks to perform if you have/had or suspect you had Covid. My friend who was in the hospital for Covid had d-dimer tested a few times even after discharge from the hospital.

Hospitals in Indonesia will only give standard doses of Vitamin D (something like 400IU/day). Personally, if I were diagnosed with Covid, I would up this to 5000IU/day. Currently, I am taking about 5000IU 2-3x/week, in addition to normal multivitamins/supplements.

These are good checks to perform if you have/had or suspect you had Covid. My friend who was in the hospital for Covid had d-dimer tested a few times even after discharge from the hospital.

Hospitals in Indonesia will only give standard doses of Vitamin D (something like 400IU/day). Personally, if I were diagnosed with Covid, I would up this to 5000IU/day. Currently, I am taking about 5000IU 2-3x/week, in addition to normal multivitamins/supplements.

You should check your vitamin D from time to tune the dosage.
When in covid, 10.000 per day for a week should be good as your D vitamin goes down fast.
Ideally D dimer should be tested every week after covid for sometime, than 10 days, than 2 weeks and every month as it swings up and down for months after covid.

 

[Bad_azz]

Did you do blood checks after the covid(d-dimer, CRP, vitamin D)? Good info for oxymeters on smokers.

No.
I did have a full check up done last Sept, unrelated matter.
& to be honest I am pretty sure my Vit D levels are likely on the floor - I have barely been outside for weeks. (shame on me)

 

[dafluff]

Ideally D dimer should be tested every week after covid for sometime, than 10 days, than 2 weeks and every month as it swings up and down for months after covid.

I did not know this...I will check with him if he's still getting it checked, and pass on this recommendation.

 

[R Cameron]

So yeah..i still don't see how all of this is totally wrong. That's why I said iam probably not intelligent enough.

There are several problems with the comparison, but the fundamental problem with the analysis is that Covid-19 doesn't have a finite window of risk like infant tetanus and even the seasonal flu.

To say "the risk of dying from tetanus in the 1 month following birth is X%" and compare that with "the risk of dying from Covid in a given month is Y%" is completely illogical. One group has a high risk event (birth) in 100% of subjects, and the other group only has a high risk event (Covid exposure) in a small percentage of subjects. As @HappyMan points out, a better comparison would be to compare with the percent of deaths following birth to the percent of deaths following direct exposure to Covid.

Even that is incomplete, since as long as Covid is permitted to circulate every replication has a random chance of creating something more deadly. If we let it circulate until herd immunity is reached, there is a reasonable risk of it becoming much more deadly and/or evade the immunity gained from prior infection, further raising the level and incidence of high risk events.

 

[HappyMan]

If we let it circulate until herd immunity is reached, there is a reasonable risk of it becoming much more deadly and/or evade the immunity gained from prior infection, further raising the level and incidence of high risk events.

I hadn't thought of that. I mean, I know it is possible and even reasonable, but I never thought about it in context of the numbers. Someone must have had a go at estimating the likelihood of an immunity evading mutation within, say 2 billion infection cycles. Would be pretty cool to see what those numbers look like.

It is kind of crazy, but you could end up with a number of infections needed to reach herd immunity that exceeds the total population (some people get infected two or more times). Wow, interesting.

 

[centurion]

I did not know this...I will check with him if he's still getting it checked, and pass on this recommendation.

The problem with these tests is that they are expensive, so rarely are done in Government treatment or by individuals. D dimer is 500.000 Rp in the Prodia lab. Vitamin D test is a similar price. At hospital lab probably double.

 

[gemima]

I hadn't thought of that. I mean, I know it is possible and even reasonable, but I never thought about it in context of the numbers. Someone must have had a go at estimating the likelihood of an immunity evading mutation within, say 2 billion infection cycles. Would be pretty cool to see what those numbers look like.

It is kind of crazy, but you could end up with a number of infections needed to reach herd immunity that exceeds the total population (some people get infected two or more times). Wow, interesting.

This has already happened with the Delta variant (recent one from India), it's evading the immune system in people with previous covid exposure (and even in some cases vaccinated individuals but to a lesser extent). The more the virus replicates the more chance we get a nasty variant.

 

[centurion]

It looks like the situation with oxygen bottles in Jakarta is worsening. Hard to find any from yesterday. My friend tried to find for somebody yesterday and got only one through some connections. A couple of days ago it was not a problem. There is still oxygen gas for a refill, but no bottles (that is how the rent bottle system works, you rent a bottle for 7-30 days and refill).

 

[centurion]

Oxygen bottles and oxygen refill continue to be an issue.

Penjelasan Gubernur Anies Baswedan soal Langkanya Tabung Oksigen untuk Pasien Covid-19 di Jakarta - Tribunnews.com

Melonjaknya tabung oksigen untuk penanganan Covid-19 itu, menurut Gubernur DKI Jakarta Anies Baswedan, dua-tiga kali lipatnya - Halaman 4

www.tribunnews.com

Some voices accuse the Government of sending 3500 bottles to India as humanitarian assistance beginning of June. The Government claims it would not make a difference.

 

[stt_cibubur]

To those who have been vaccinated...how easy was the procedure for you? (Sorry if I've asked this question before). My effort in getting vaccinated is back to square one again kinda...seems like every time there's a new 'updates' that delays me getting one....wife's friend who supposed to have a 'channel' said that they finally got the sinovac supply, but since it just arrived yesterday, it has to go some kind of 'sterilization' and additional testing...so those who registered last week (including me) will have to wait at least until July 28th to get vaccinated. Have a family member also who knows somebody at Royal Taruma....when she mentioned that a WNA would like to get vaccinated...she flat out was told they prefer not to do it as 'the bureaucracy is too complicated'. Now I'm just trying to get surat pak RT from where I live (house with wife), but my KTP is still using the old address (my parent's house) would this be a problem?

If you have KTP DKI , doesn't matter which area, you can go to RS Ridwan Meuraksa, the hospital next to Anggrek Centre near Tamini Square , they have quota of 200-300 vaccine/day, you can't book it online, you must come early morning and fill the form and queue, They are open from 8AM-2pm, Monday - Saturday. if you come around 6 AM, you have a chance to get the form.
The vaccine location is at the the back of the hospital, drive go straight then turn right ,its at the far end ( you cannot possibly miss it ).

Or you can try to book it online via detik.com and Bank mega https://health.detik.com/vaksincovid
Good Luck!

 

[Banana72]

If you have KTP DKI , doesn't matter which area, you can go to RS Ridwan Meuraksa, the hospital next to Anggrek Centre near Tamini Square , they have quota of 200-300 vaccine/day, you can't book it online, you must come early morning and fill the form and queue, They are open from 8AM-2pm, Monday - Saturday. if you come around 6 AM, you have a chance to get the form.
The vaccine location is at the the back of the hospital, drive go straight then turn right ,its at the far end ( you cannot possibly miss it ).

Or you can try to book it online via detik.com and Bank mega https://health.detik.com/vaksincovid
Good Luck!

Got me a first Sinovac shot last Saturday through Halodoc...waiting for my second one now on July 24th. Thanks for the info!

Ironically I was waiting for my ibu RT to respond to my Whatsapp...she told my dad's driver to give her my copy of KTP and she will try to get me vaccinated that was on Friday. I wasn't sure what she was talking about so I sent her a whatsapp message on Saturday afternoon only got an undelivered message...and today I got news that she actually got vaccinated Saturday, wasn't feeling well on Sunday and passed away on Monday (I didn't ask what kind of vaccine she got).