DON'T PANIC.... well, maybe a little bit.

[dafluff]

@dafluff
I don't know did you had dengue, but If you are in dengue infected area it is very easy to get it and not much help about it. Forget about repellents, nets and other preventions, they do not work if there are no communal measures-drying water tanks every 7 days to stop the reproduction cycle of the mosquito, fogging etc. In the infected area, it is far more transmissive than COVID and far more dangerous.

The truth is that Indonesian medicine is very proficient in the treatment of the disease-I acknowledge them that, so not many deaths. Without hospital treatment, your chances of survival are 80%, with treatment 99%, far lower than COVID. Everybody in my family had dengue, including me.

Had dengue, spent a week in ICU, made a post about it in here (or other forum?) about it. Anyway, Dengue is probably more dangerous than Covid for the average person who contracts it, not arguing that.

But if someone is gonna make the claim that it kills more people when the data shows it killed about several hundreds a year (vs the ~12k Covid has so far this year), I'm gonna call it out.

 

[rabbit_39]

For me it's not difficult to grasp the concept of why SARS-CoV-2 is a dangerous virus causing COVID-19 related deaths:

• it's highly contagious, think of pink eye, or some strains of flu that in some years seems to spread quicker and wider than in other years
• its impact to one's health on its own is quite severe, especially on the respiratory organs
• when COVID-19's health impact on the body is combined with other health conditions, it makes the combination much deadlier on the person than the other health conditions on its own

So yes, comorbidities SHOULD be counted as COVID related deaths. Especially if it can be shown that COVID 19 symptoms contribute to the severity of the person's health degradation rate. I do agree that some care need to be taken beyond "if a person dies of any reason and had a last breath cough it's a COVID 19 related death".

Just those three alone combined is enough to make me want to protect myself with all the tools available to me.

Do I think we should close all businesses, etc? Perhaps there's a better solution, but when we add the human elements to the mix, a harsh decision seems to have some acceptable logic. I do wish that for those living below and around the poverty level not in a condition to lose their jobs would be given an option.

In reality for quite a few people at middle income levels and up, the current lockdowns don't affect them in a debilitating manner.

 

[Burungkecil]

This popped up on Twitter today.
True, or is it an attempt to save an ailing flight industry?

 

[dannyboy]

This popped up on Twitter today.
True, or is it an attempt to save an ailing flight industry?View attachment 1595

Don't you think they need to compare the numbers between before and after the global 'lockdown'?
If they take out the first three months of the year, the number would look much more real.

Though still, in my opinion, it doesn't mean anything to anyone...the low number of travel now is not caused so much by the fear of transmission, but by all the other things combined.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

I think domestic flights will regain most of their losses, but for international flights not until 2022 (by which time a second generation vaccine and some kind of preemptive antibody medicine like Trump had is available).

Sadly, I feel that Air Asia may not be with us by then, and we may have national (subsidised) carriers only by that point, meaning fewer routes and higher costs. I remember paying $700 for a basic economy ticket Jakarta-Bangkok in the late 2000s, perhaps those kinds of prices will return.

 

[gemima]

This popped up on Twitter today.
True, or is it an attempt to save an ailing flight industry?View attachment 1595

There was a proper scientific study looking into virus transmission risk on airplanes performed recently. With the constant filtering of air using HEPA filters (air changed every 3 mins apparently in some planes) they concluded that it was indeed very low risk (esp if people are wearing masks). Of course if you are squeezed in beside someone shedding virus you're likely to catch it.
Older planes may not have such good filters.

 

[dafluff]

Indonesia could begin vaccinating for Covid in November as three Chinese manufacturers have agreed to start supplying the vaccines then. Sinopharm is going to supply 50 million (dual dose) vaccines, Cansino 20 million single does vaccines and Sinovac will supply 125 million (dual dose vaccines) by 2021.

Bye Corona! Vaksinasi Covid-19 di RI Mulai Awal November 2020

Pemerintah Indonesia memastikan program vaksinasi Covid-19 akan dimulai pada awal November 2020. Indonesia akan mengandalkan vaksin buatan China.

www.cnbcindonesia.com

It will also procure 100 million doses from Astra Zeneca.

Indonesia Agrees to Buy 100m Vaccines from AstraZaneca

Indonesia has agreed on a deal to procure 100 million dosages of Covid-19 vaccines from British pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca

jakartaglobe.id

 

[centurion]

Participant in the Astra Zeneca vaccine (aka Oxford vaccine) developed transverse myelitis, a rare neurological disease that could lead to paralysis. Testing of the vaccine in the US was halted, while in the UK resumed.

On top of it, a lot of Chinese producers of vaccines, including Sinovac have a bad history with developing vaccines (side effects due to impurity, briberies etc).

 

[dafluff]

Participant in the Astra Zeneca vaccine (aka Oxford vaccine) developed transverse myelitis, a rare neurological disease that could lead to paralysis. Testing of the vaccine in the US was halted, while in the UK resumed.

On top of it, a lot of Chinese producers of vaccines, including Sinovac have a bad history with developing vaccines (side effects due to impurity, briberies etc).

Maybe that's why its only $5/dose when the Sinovac one is going to be about $25...

 

[fastpitch17]

The naysayers think that if a person with diabetes gets killed in an auto accident, they must have died from having diabetes. Any excuse will do to avoid harsh realities.

 

[dafluff]

Interesting timeline and breakdown of Covid cases by state partisanship in the US:

COVID Cases since June by state partisanship

Animated bar graph chart of total COVID cases, state-by-state, since June 1

dangoodspeed.com

 

[rabbit_39]

The naysayers think that if a person with diabetes gets killed in an auto accident, they must have died from having diabetes. Any excuse will do to avoid harsh realities.

Wrong assumption that this will ever be the case. There is a very clear definition of what comorbidity is. Someone who have pneumonia that will then have their lung functions further degraded by corona virus will have been correctly identifies as dying from the effects of COVID-19

Sigh.. I know what you mean though. People will just grab arguments out if thin air.

 

[dafluff]

Now Johnson and Johnson has paused its Covid-19 vaccine study due to an unexplained illness in a study participant. Previously a Covid-19 vaccine phase 3 trial by AstraZeneca was paused for the same reason, but has since resumed in the UK (but not in the US).

Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 vaccine study paused due to unexplained illness in participant

The study of Johnson & Johnson’s Covid-19 vaccine has been paused due to an unexplained illness in a study participant. A document sent to outside

www.statnews.com

 

[Bad_azz]

Now Johnson and Johnson has paused its Covid-19 vaccine study due to an unexplained illness in a study participant. Previously a Covid-19 vaccine phase 3 trial by AstraZeneca was paused for the same reason, but has since resumed in the UK (but not in the US).

Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 vaccine study paused due to unexplained illness in participant

The study of Johnson & Johnson’s Covid-19 vaccine has been paused due to an unexplained illness in a study participant. A document sent to outside

www.statnews.com

It is quite normal/ethical procedure/ practice to halt trials
It would be much more scary if they ignored any discrepancies in data/sickness in subjects - happier they pause it & investigate , then resume if feasible.


I think what seems to be a normal process is becoming newsworthy due to people (joe public) never really knowing anything at all about the lab/clinical trial procedures before, so are now jumping on every little thing as if it is a big deal.

 

[Bad_azz]

Wrong assumption that this will ever be the case. There is a very clear definition of what comorbidity is. Someone who have pneumonia that will then have their lung functions further degraded by corona virus will have been correctly identifies as dying from the effects of COVID-19

Sigh.. I know what you mean though. People will just grab arguments out if thin air.

What about in places where the hospitals are full up to bursting due to the pandemic & someone has severe trauma/injuries due to say a car accident, but no 'bed' available & they die- personally I would see that as a related death. They would likely not have died if there was no covid 19.

 

[Balifrog]

hey would likely not have died if there was no covid 19.

The problem is not the Covid itself. It is the bad management of it by most governments.

 

[Bad_azz]

The problem is not the Covid itself. It is the bad management of it by most governments.

I have no argument with that statement at all.
Humans really are a stupid self destructive species, all the more stupid for not seeing how stupid they are

 

[harryopal1]

Our vanity leads us to believe we can manage things. And with many things we can and do but rather frequently unforeseen events complicate matters and "...-the oft laid plans gang aft a'glay. "

As an example: During the great anti Vietnam War protests in Australia it occurred to Australian Broadcasting Commission management that the country needed a national strategy to be able to report events should there be a disaster. A control centre with a comprehensive chain of command was made up listing a process for passing information across the network with telephone numbers for key personnel. Within a few weeks the whole thing became redundant as in such a large organization there were constant changes across departments as people were promoted or moved around.

With the complexities of Covid 19 it is impossible to keep track of everything. Different states in countries cannot agree on a system of management let alone any useful accord between the 195 countries which make up the world. We can but try to stay informed, take precautions, be respectful of our fellow human beings and do the best we can in a very very confused world.

 

[rabbit_39]

What about in places where the hospitals are full up to bursting due to the pandemic & someone has severe trauma/injuries due to say a car accident, but no 'bed' available & they die- personally I would see that as a related death. They would likely not have died if there was no covid 19.

But this is not the definition of comorbidity. Oxford Dictionary: " the simultaneous presence of two chronic diseases or conditions in a patient. "

 

[Bad_azz]

But this is not the definition of comorbidity. Oxford Dictionary: " the simultaneous presence of two chronic diseases or conditions in a patient. "

I never said it was... I am fully aware what comorbidities are.